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Topic: Bitcoin Forecast, Bitcoin Speculation & Bitcoin Technical Analysis. Up or DOWN? - page 92. (Read 540249 times)

legendary
Activity: 2100
Merit: 1000
Your data is all correct.

However, bitcoin usd prices lead other data points: BTCUSD leads transactions and transaction volume.

And even if the bounce up will only be a small correction up from a longer term donwtrend, you are looking at an at least 38.2% retracement to 14.5 $. More standard is a 61.8% retracement which would equal to 21.2 $.

And again, bitcoin prices can make another low below 3.71 $ and would still have this big upside potential.

Everyone can decide for himself to wait before a breakout happens or already be in the market.

(
hero member
Activity: 490
Merit: 500
I have parsed block chain from 15 Jun 2011 till 9 Oct 2011. Why... why Berkeley DB is so fu**ing slow??? It took two weeks and still parsing because i want to get deeper data.

But.. intermediate graphs are here. So, I am about to compare exchange rate to daily transaction number and daily transaction volume.

The daily transaction number is the major bitcoin network activity and popularity marker. I didnt find any useful data in daily volume graph.





Well, I do not see any bullish trends here. Network is depressing (as i told you 5-6 page posts ago). I dont exclude that network activity will raise in near future, but now it is under depression.

ps. to be concluded >>>> Smiley
hero member
Activity: 531
Merit: 505
Yeah. Strong bullish rally till .. ehm .. 3.97? Then, park at 3.65.  Wink

That's what my crystal ball say. We will see.
legendary
Activity: 2100
Merit: 1000
Here is a new analysis.
Short term: strong BUY rating.



http://www.bitcoinbullbear.com/index.html

You can also vote in the poll again. It is open.
legendary
Activity: 2100
Merit: 1000
Thanks for the in-depth comments. I like the discussion.

Regarding MACD and RSI divergences, the view follows standard technical analysis practices: if price make new lows but MACD (or RSI) not, this is a divergence.

Of course, this is not the only tool and indicator. It may well be that prices do not "follow" the divergence. At the same time, as long as
i) prices do not make a new low and
ii) MACD and RSI do not break their trend of higher highs and lower lows
there is a good chance that bitcoin prices will move higher quite soon.

Even more more new low is allowed under this long term trend interpretation and lead to a massive upswing.

And, as the bitcoin prices are coiling into a very narrow range, the following break out or breakdown (alternate scenario) will be massive and many will not believe it.
newbie
Activity: 43
Merit: 0
S3052, in your "bullish divergance" chart are you measuring the change of the divergence of the MACD, a measure of change in trends?! Why is this a useful measurement?

In my opinion the only thing s3052 is saying is that the market could go up because it's not going down as fast as it was before.  A slower decline or sideways trend is really all the MACD and RSI show, and s3052 calls this a "bullish divergence", which I disagree with.  The market is currently in the second significant sideways trend since the peak in the $30s.  During a sideways trend, all 3 parts of the MACD (the two lines and the divergence between them) move towards the center line (0.0).  So if MACD was low because of a previous down trend, and then the market starts moving sideways, the MACD will start to move upwards, and the divergence between the two MACD lines will be positive.  The reverse is true if the trend was up before it starts going sideways.  I think a more relevant thing to consider is that sideways trends are typically followed by the previous trend again, which in bitcoin's case is a down trend.

Two more things that I would consider when interpreting the MACD:

First, the MACD is distorted near the beginning of s3052's "bullish divergence" line due to 6 days of no trade data from mtgox being shutdown after it got hacked.  If those 6 periods are taken out of the measurement, the divergence between the MACD lines would go into the negative more sharply, and come back up a little quicker as well, and in my opinion would be more accurate than pretending the market price was constant during that volatile time period.  This removes s3052's nice straight line across the bottoms of those MACD divergence lows.

Second, I don't think the big decline and recovery just over 2 months ago (which didn't even recover all the way back up to the previous sideways trend) is very relevant to the general trend and to current and future prices.  It's deviation from and return to the trend doesn't have much meaning for the short term or the medium and long term.  The context of the market was much different then than it is now.  The lack of that trend deviation's meaning today implies that the larger moves in the MACD during that time are not very meaningful today, either, when interpreting the larger trend that is more meaningful to us today.  My day trades don't take that period into consideration now, and neither do my long term expectations at this point (however, a few weeks or so ago it was much more relevant to me for both the short and long term...the market context my decisions were based in were much different back then as compared to now).  As far as I am concerned when looking at the last 4 months of the market declining, putting a lot of consideration into that big drop/recovery doesn't provide much more meaning than considering the 6 days of no price data at all.  s3052's line drawn from the the second MACD divergence low to the third seems to be almost meaningless in today's market.

I think it was just a convenient place to draw a line.

I focused on MACD in this post, but the RSI is obviously based on the same market data and likewise contains similar distorted effects that would likely affect s3052's line drawing.  This suggests, at least to me, that the idea of there being a "bullish divergence" isn't very well supported by the data.  I think this current sideways trend is just another consolidation before prices start to drop more (the end of the last sideways trend wasn't pretty, either...if that big drop a couple months ago is of any relevant meaning at all, it's that it suggests the possibility that the current sideways trend could end the same way before continue back on the normal slow decline).

Just sharing my opinion.
hero member
Activity: 784
Merit: 1000
bitcoin hundred-aire
To be fair, the September 15 breakout above moving averages after a double bottom was definitely a bull signal.  You can't argue with that.  I was a bit surprised we didn't have at least a minor rally myself.  And by surprised I mean I kept a bunch more mined coins than I should have which I later sold for less $.




Problem is, some guy keeps selling 10k BTC into these rallies and they just die Sad
How the hell can technical analysis predict that?
full member
Activity: 154
Merit: 100
To be fair, the September 15 breakout above moving averages after a double bottom was definitely a bull signal.  You can't argue with that.  I was a bit surprised we didn't have at least a minor rally myself.  And by surprised I mean I kept a bunch more mined coins than I should have which I later sold for less $.


hero member
Activity: 784
Merit: 1000
bitcoin hundred-aire
legendary
Activity: 1246
Merit: 1077
S3052, in your "bullish divergance" chart are you measuring the change of the divergence of the MACD, a measure of change in trends?! Why is this a useful measurement?
zby
legendary
Activity: 1594
Merit: 1001

I cashed out my bitcoins back in July and have withdrawn about 2/3ds of the money, since then I tried to play with the rest - but only managed to reduce it a bit.  I wonder how many people did a similar move.  How much cash left MtGox?  How much is still there?  It is very tempting to be back in the game if you have some cash left at MtGox - that's why this bubble deflation goes very slow.  If you were an early investor that decided to cash out - how much did you leave on MtGox just in case?


Only MtGox and Dwolla know how much of the original investment is still in circulation.  What is certain beyond all doubt is people aren't depositing enough new money to keep pace with even a small portion of current operating costs.  Thankfully 80%+ of the mining power is content to mine-and-hold, if they started cashing out enough to pay for power (never mind hardware) it'd be a bloodbath.


The trial in France might reveal some info about the cash in the European MtGox accounts.
full member
Activity: 154
Merit: 100

I cashed out my bitcoins back in July and have withdrawn about 2/3ds of the money, since then I tried to play with the rest - but only managed to reduce it a bit.  I wonder how many people did a similar move.  How much cash left MtGox?  How much is still there?  It is very tempting to be back in the game if you have some cash left at MtGox - that's why this bubble deflation goes very slow.  If you were an early investor that decided to cash out - how much did you leave on MtGox just in case?


Only MtGox and Dwolla know how much of the original investment is still in circulation.  What is certain beyond all doubt is people aren't depositing enough new money to keep pace with even a small portion of current operating costs.  Thankfully 80%+ of the mining power is content to mine-and-hold, if they started cashing out enough to pay for power (never mind hardware) it'd be a bloodbath.



zby
legendary
Activity: 1594
Merit: 1001
S3052 does a great job on technical analysis (I even follow him on twitter to keep up with all the updates) and yes, he considers other things beside the charts, such as the community thoughts here at this thread. I was just saying that every prediction must be taken with a grain of salt.

Regardless of the bitcoin price, volume in currency is an indicator of how much people are trading. Investing $1000 in June means that I can move around 33 BTC. In October it means that I can move 250 BTC. So the BTC volume should be 7 times higher now, but instead it is more or less the same. Either we have the same amount of people investing 7 times less money, or we have 7 times less people. Either way, I don't believe that we can support $30 prices.




May I suggest an alternate theory?  The money the "7 people" invested in June has been collected and used to pay for hardware and power by a small % miners.  My estimate is 15-20% cash out, the rest are happy looking rich on paper and/or speculating "long term."

The remainder of original investment is being traded by a smaller (but not 7x smaller) group.


I cashed out my bitcoins back in July and have withdrawn about 2/3ds of the money, since then I tried to play with the rest - but only managed to reduce it a bit.  I wonder how many people did a similar move.  How much cash left MtGox?  How much is still there?  It is very tempting to be back in the game if you have some cash left at MtGox - that's why this bubble deflation goes very slow.  If you were an early investor that decided to cash out - how much did you leave on MtGox just in case?
full member
Activity: 154
Merit: 100
S3052 does a great job on technical analysis (I even follow him on twitter to keep up with all the updates) and yes, he considers other things beside the charts, such as the community thoughts here at this thread. I was just saying that every prediction must be taken with a grain of salt.

Regardless of the bitcoin price, volume in currency is an indicator of how much people are trading. Investing $1000 in June means that I can move around 33 BTC. In October it means that I can move 250 BTC. So the BTC volume should be 7 times higher now, but instead it is more or less the same. Either we have the same amount of people investing 7 times less money, or we have 7 times less people. Either way, I don't believe that we can support $30 prices.




May I suggest an alternate theory?  The money the "7 people" invested in June has been collected and used to pay for hardware and power by a small % miners.  My estimate is 15-20% cash out, the rest are happy looking rich on paper and/or speculating "long term."

The remainder of original investment is being traded by a smaller (but not 7x smaller) group.
legendary
Activity: 2100
Merit: 1000
No I do not follow him (yet). Let me find out more about him. Thanks for the suggestion. I know Robert Prechter well (not personally, but read all his books which helped me to predict the stock market declines and commodity declines over the past 5 years)
full member
Activity: 210
Merit: 100
Just out of curiosity S3052, do you at all follow Clive Maund? I just found him recently and noticed that he also likes using Elliott waves and was also one of the few analysts I read that predicted the recent commodity crash. I don't think he writes anything on bitcoin though...
legendary
Activity: 2128
Merit: 1073
You can draw a straight line through any number of points, provided it's thick enough Smiley
In geometry, the corrolary was: a wannabe Euclides with the dullest pencil can prove the highest number of theorems.  Wink
donator
Activity: 2772
Merit: 1019
http://chart.ly/dc4tqrw

"Will the major bitcoin charts trendline hold? if so, this could be a strong buy"
  That is a tautology.  If the line held, bitcoin price would increase at least exponentially from then on. Smiley

A tautology is always true... do you maybe mean the opposite (called a "falsum", I believe)?
sr. member
Activity: 462
Merit: 250
http://chart.ly/dc4tqrw

"Will the major bitcoin charts trendline hold? if so, this could be a strong buy"
  That is a tautology.  If the line held, bitcoin price would increase at least exponentially from then on. Smiley
donator
Activity: 2772
Merit: 1019
smile. there are 5 points, though :-)

You can draw a straight line through any number of points, provided it's thick enough Smiley
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