Topic: Bitcoin halving to be canceled? - page 12. (Read 33718 times)

Quote from: Amph on April 09, 2016, 02:20:54 AM

What you say essentially boils down to saying that increasing block size limits would cause per se more transactions per day, right? That would be true only if the size limits restricted the volume of transactions processed, i.e. if the total majority of the blocks were full and there was constant congestion with thrown away transactions, which is surely not the case right now...

Thereby, just increasing the block size limit shouldn't affect the number of transactions in any significant degree, since it is not a limiting factor at present

The higher block size limit will encourage people to have more transactions and to use bitcoin more.

How's that? Care to explain?

well it's clear, blocks are not full know not because we have still a big margin, but because many know that massive usage would lead the block to be full, so they decide to do less transaction per day

the simple thing of the limit is limiting the usage per day

So people are refraining from transacting in Bitcoin (read using it) because of the block size limit? Okay then, but in this case (which is doubtful, if not suspicious), it means that the devs can't do a thing (i.e. they are impotent and powerless)...

Or that they are just saboteurs

the dev are already doing something good for this, segwit plus hard fork to 2mb in 2017 , progress are there but they are just too slow for my taste...

deisik

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Quote from: deisik on April 08, 2016, 03:38:51 PM

Quote from: deisik on April 08, 2016, 03:38:51 PM

What you say essentially boils down to saying that increasing block size limits would cause per se more transactions per day, right? That would be true only if the size limits restricted the volume of transactions processed, i.e. if the total majority of the blocks were full and there was constant congestion with thrown away transactions, which is surely not the case right now...

Thereby, just increasing the block size limit shouldn't affect the number of transactions in any significant degree, since it is not a limiting factor at present

The higher block size limit will encourage people to have more transactions and to use bitcoin more.

How's that? Care to explain?

well it's clear, blocks are not full know not because we have still a big margin, but because many know that massive usage would lead the block to be full, so they decide to do less transaction per day

the simple thing of the limit is limiting the usage per day

So people are refraining from transacting in Bitcoin (read using it) because of the block size limit? Okay then, but in this case (which is doubtful, if not suspicious), it means that the devs can't do a thing (i.e. they are impotent and powerless)...

Or that they are just saboteurs

Amph

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What you say essentially boils down to saying that increasing block size limits would cause per se more transactions per day, right? That would be true only if the size limits restricted the volume of transactions processed, i.e. if the total majority of the blocks were full and there was constant congestion with thrown away transactions, which is surely not the case right now...

Thereby, just increasing the block size limit shouldn't affect the number of transactions in any significant degree, since it is not a limiting factor at present

The higher block size limit will encourage people to have more transactions and to use bitcoin more.

How's that? Care to explain?

well it's clear, blocks are not full know not because we have still a big margin, but because many know that massive usage would lead the block to be full, so they decide to do less transaction per day

the simple thing of the limit is limiting the usage per day

deisik

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What you say essentially boils down to saying that increasing block size limits would cause per se more transactions per day, right? That would be true only if the size limits restricted the volume of transactions processed, i.e. if the total majority of the blocks were full and there was constant congestion with thrown away transactions, which is surely not the case right now...

Thereby, just increasing the block size limit shouldn't affect the number of transactions in any significant degree, since it is not a limiting factor at present

The higher block size limit will encourage people to have more transactions and to use bitcoin more.

How's that? Care to explain?

Ejanend

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Quote from: Amph on April 03, 2016, 05:51:26 AM

Quote from: deisik on April 03, 2016, 04:20:59 AM

Quote from: Amph on April 03, 2016, 05:51:26 AM

there are some block that are full, this mean that we have already surpassed the limit on average, so it most certainly increase a bit, not 4x right, but 1.5x for now

If it were so, we would have a permanent congestion leading to a halt in Bitcoin operation. If some blocks are full, it just means that we have a spike or an outlier, but on average we still have enough room for the current level of load...

i mean block are not at 1.5 average or purposely full for that size, because many now that they can not have that size yet, but if it were with that size, we would reach it already

the fact that blocks are not 100% full, it does not mean that when the capacity is increased they would not reach the new limit fast

What you say essentially boils down to saying that increasing block size limits would cause per se more transactions per day, right? That would be true only if the size limits restricted the volume of transactions processed, i.e. if the total majority of the blocks were full and there was constant congestion with thrown away transactions, which is surely not the case right now...

Thereby, just increasing the block size limit shouldn't affect the number of transactions in any significant degree, since it is not a limiting factor at present

The higher block size limit will encourage people to have more transactions and to use bitcoin more.

deisik

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Quote from: deisik on April 03, 2016, 04:20:59 AM

Quote from: deisik on April 03, 2016, 04:20:59 AM

there are some block that are full, this mean that we have already surpassed the limit on average, so it most certainly increase a bit, not 4x right, but 1.5x for now

If it were so, we would have a permanent congestion leading to a halt in Bitcoin operation. If some blocks are full, it just means that we have a spike or an outlier, but on average we still have enough room for the current level of load...

i mean block are not at 1.5 average or purposely full for that size, because many now that they can not have that size yet, but if it were with that size, we would reach it already

the fact that blocks are not 100% full, it does not mean that when the capacity is increased they would not reach the new limit fast

What you say essentially boils down to saying that increasing block size limits would cause per se more transactions per day, right? That would be true only if the size limits restricted the volume of transactions processed, i.e. if the total majority of the blocks were full and there was constant congestion with thrown away transactions, which is surely not the case right now...

Thereby, just increasing the block size limit shouldn't affect the number of transactions in any significant degree, since it is not a limiting factor at present

Amph

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there are some block that are full, this mean that we have already surpassed the limit on average, so it most certainly increase a bit, not 4x right, but 1.5x for now

If it were so, we would have a permanent congestion leading to a halt in Bitcoin operation. If some blocks are full, it just means that we have a spike or an outlier, but on average we still have enough room for the current level of load...

i mean block are not at 1.5 average or purposely full for that size, because many now that they can not have that size yet, but if it were with that size, we would reach it already

the fact that blocks are not 100% full, it does not mean that when the capacity is increased they would not reach the new limit fast

deisik

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Besides that, wouldn't changing the minimal fee (10k -> 40k) require a hard fork, lol?

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Quote from: deisik on April 03, 2016, 03:33:55 AM

there are some block that are full, this mean that we have already surpassed the limit on average, so it most certainly increase a bit, not 4x right, but 1.5x for now

If it were so, we would have a permanent congestion leading to a halt in Bitcoin operation. If some blocks are full, it just means that we have a spike or an outlier, but on average we still have enough room for the current level of load...

Amph

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Quote from: Amph on April 03, 2016, 03:00:29 AM

Quote from: deisik on April 02, 2016, 02:36:22 PM

Quote from: Amph on April 03, 2016, 03:00:29 AM

But wouldn't Bitcoin need more mining power from the network to process all these new transactions? The coming halvings pose a threat to Bitcoin well-being (or just being, lol) as I see it. If the Bitcoin price stays relatively the same, I can't possibly imagine the number of tx increase 70x...

And who would process this new additional load?

it need surely a block limit increase because with 1mega you can not certainly achieve anything

it don't necessarily need to increase 70x, that is the final outcome that is needed, you can reach it with a combination of both of the 3 parameters, we can call them so

Even if you take the cube root of 70, you would still get that each of these 3 factors should increase more than 4 times (provided they happen to increase evenly)

well 4 times is doable especially for the limit, in fact you have seg with plus HF to 2mb, which is exactly 4 times bigger than the current limit, this would allow 4x increase on the tx per day

But you forget that you should increase each of your factors 4 times to get miners income from fees increased 70 times (actually 4x4x4=64 times). Besides, raising the tx limit doesn't in the least mean that the number of transactions gets increased as well. If it were so, that would mean two things, i.e. either Bitcoin development is stuck (no one can agree on anything)...

Or, otherwise, the limit should have already been lifted long ago

there are some block that are full, this mean that we have already surpassed the limit on average, so it most certainly increase a bit, not 4x right, but 1.5x for now

the other factors are easy to have at x4, price of bitcoin at 4x is easy, just 1600, i can see this happen in the next 5 years without doubts basically, fees to 40k satoshi, also not that impossible to have

haileysantos95

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I doubt that it will be canceled,no one can canceled they halving because it will breach the program of bitcoin and that is bad for everyone who is using bitcoin.

deisik

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Furthermore, increased load on the network (tx per day) would require more miners and propagating nodes. But if the revenue from mining constantly falls, why should anyone give a fuck?

Could the current Bitcoin infrastructure pipe through such a load?

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Quote from: deisik on April 02, 2016, 02:36:22 PM

Quote from: deisik on April 02, 2016, 02:36:22 PM

But wouldn't Bitcoin need more mining power from the network to process all these new transactions? The coming halvings pose a threat to Bitcoin well-being (or just being, lol) as I see it. If the Bitcoin price stays relatively the same, I can't possibly imagine the number of tx increase 70x...

And who would process this new additional load?

it need surely a block limit increase because with 1mega you can not certainly achieve anything

it don't necessarily need to increase 70x, that is the final outcome that is needed, you can reach it with a combination of both of the 3 parameters, we can call them so

Even if you take the cube root of 70, you would still get that each of these 3 factors should increase more than 4 times (provided they happen to increase evenly)

well 4 times is doable especially for the limit, in fact you have seg with plus HF to 2mb, which is exactly 4 times bigger than the current limit, this would allow 4x increase on the tx per day

But you forget that you should increase each of your factors 4 times to get miners income from fees increased 70 times (actually 4x4x4=64 times). Besides, raising the tx limit doesn't in the least mean that the number of transactions gets increased as well. If it were so, that would mean two things, i.e. either Bitcoin development is stuck (no one can agree on anything)...

Or, otherwise, the limit should have already been lifted long ago

Amph

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But wouldn't Bitcoin need more mining power from the network to process all these new transactions? The coming halvings pose a threat to Bitcoin well-being (or just being, lol) as I see it. If the Bitcoin price stays relatively the same, I can't possibly imagine the number of tx increase 70x...

And who would process this new additional load?

it need surely a block limit increase because with 1mega you can not certainly achieve anything

it don't necessarily need to increase 70x, that is the final outcome that is needed, you can reach it with a combination of both of the 3 parameters, we can call them so

Even if you take the cube root of 70, you would still get that each of these 3 factors should increase more than 4 times (provided they happen to increase evenly)

well 4 times is doable especially for the limit, in fact you have seg with plus HF to 2mb, which is exactly 4 times bigger than the current limit, this would allow 4x increase on the tx per day

deisik

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Also, these factors are not independent of each other. That is, if you arbitrarily increase the fees, it would most certainly lead to the decrease in the number of transactions per day. People will transact less with greater amounts per tx to keep up with the increased fees...

And this dependency may not be linear at that (higher fees may mean lesser yet transactions)

deisik

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But wouldn't Bitcoin need more mining power from the network to process all these new transactions? The coming halvings pose a threat to Bitcoin well-being (or just being, lol) as I see it. If the Bitcoin price stays relatively the same, I can't possibly imagine the number of tx increase 70x...

And who would process this new additional load?

it need surely a block limit increase because with 1mega you can not certainly achieve anything

it don't necessarily need to increase 70x, that is the final outcome that is needed, you can reach it with a combination of both of the 3 parameters, we can call them so

Even if you take the cube root of 70, you would still get that each of these 3 factors should increase more than 4 times (provided they happen to increase evenly)

Amph

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