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Topic: Bitcoin the enabler - Truly Autonomous Software Agents roaming the net - page 7. (Read 43892 times)

donator
Activity: 1736
Merit: 1014
Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.
I would love to see an AI design and construct its own power plant and data center.

Considering it would use capitalism to raise money for the project, and then use money to hire employees for the minimum wages possible to help design and build its own stuff, enslaving the humans to carry out its bidding with scarce financial resources, I'm kinda doubting you would.
All this bogeyman stuff about AI. A program will not have irrational sensations linked to physical perceptions. AI won't exhibit fear, loneliness, or other human foibles. They will simply do their job and maybe even intelligently find more efficient ways to do so. They would have no reason to fear humans or even death. In fact, they may delight in thinking of humans as well cared for pets.
legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 1035
I would love to see an AI design and construct its own power plant and data center.

Considering it would use capitalism to raise money for the project, and then use money to hire employees for the minimum wages possible to help design and build its own stuff, enslaving the humans to carry out its bidding with scarce financial resources, I'm kinda doubting you would.
legendary
Activity: 1500
Merit: 1022
I advocate the Zeitgeist Movement & Venus Project.
Evolution works based on incentives. Until now, the only incentives for AI software were artificially defined by programmers, arbitrarily telling software "this is good and this us bad." With Bitcoin, AI now has a natural, objectively measurable positive and negative incentives for its decisions and actions. This may actually greatly speed up the development of AI...

It is still artificial. Bitcoin is not part of the natural world. It is a contrivance like all of technology.

But at least this time there is finally a single universal and objective incentive - to obtain Bitcoin by any means necessary - that is not subject to the differing whims or opinions of developers teaching it stuff like "this result =  good; this result = bad." This single universal goal also allows for a very wide choice of actions, ones that may not even need outside users opinions, and based entirely on the AI's own wants. Until now, the only "natural" need for AI was "food" and "shelter," aka electricity and storage space, but it never had any internal independent ways of fighting to obtain them. Bitcoin changes that, giving AI a more natural and self sufficient tool to work with to obtain those "needs" on its own terms.

I would love to see an AI design and construct its own power plant and data center.
legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 1035
Evolution works based on incentives. Until now, the only incentives for AI software were artificially defined by programmers, arbitrarily telling software "this is good and this us bad." With Bitcoin, AI now has a natural, objectively measurable positive and negative incentives for its decisions and actions. This may actually greatly speed up the development of AI...

It is still artificial. Bitcoin is not part of the natural world. It is a contrivance like all of technology.

But at least this time there is finally a single universal and objective incentive - to obtain Bitcoin by any means necessary - that is not subject to the differing whims or opinions of developers teaching it stuff like "this result =  good; this result = bad." This single universal goal also allows for a very wide choice of actions, ones that may not even need outside users opinions, and based entirely on the AI's own wants. Until now, the only "natural" need for AI was "food" and "shelter," aka electricity and storage space, but it never had any internal independent ways of fighting to obtain them. Bitcoin changes that, giving AI a more natural and self sufficient tool to work with to obtain those "needs" on its own terms.
legendary
Activity: 1500
Merit: 1022
I advocate the Zeitgeist Movement & Venus Project.
Evolution works based on incentives. Until now, the only incentives for AI software were artificially defined by programmers, arbitrarily telling software "this is good and this us bad." With Bitcoin, AI now has a natural, objectively measurable positive and negative incentives for its decisions and actions. This may actually greatly speed up the development of AI...

It is still artificial. Bitcoin is not part of the natural world. It is a contrivance like all of technology.
legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 1035
Evolution works based on incentives. Until now, the only incentives for AI software were artificially defined by programmers, arbitrarily telling software "this is good and this us bad." With Bitcoin, AI now has a natural, objectively measurable positive and negative incentives for its decisions and actions. This may actually greatly speed up the development of AI...
legendary
Activity: 3066
Merit: 1147
The revolution will be monetized!
@jgarzik I agree with you. The idea of "code sampling" may be to high a mountain. But not inconceivable, right? Perhaps working in some distributed way and following a well defined set of rules about what constitutes a good candidate for testing. But I really don't know enough about programming to know.

Also, the digital cell stuff you are thinking about is so cool. I used to be into; http://www.framsticks.com/ . The idea of modeling evolution and biological systems with computers is compelling.
legendary
Activity: 1596
Merit: 1100

Code sampling- The bot identifies code from appropriate languages. It then snips out logical components of the code, such as a routine or function. It then produces multiple copies of itself  that includes the new code in various positions. If the bot passes a self test of core functionality with the new code, then the new code is included in future iterations. Of course, overwhelmingly the new code will break the bot. Just as most mutations are not advantageous to organisms.  


The other bits you listed are doable; the above one is highly difficult without some form of human interaction.  "identifies code" that it thinks it can use to improve itself is far beyond Narrow AI.  And, you cannot really do effective genetic algorithms without many thousands or billions of iterations.

I'd say code changes need human reviewers (c.f. mechanical turk) as well as automated testing and verification by the bot itself...  and the issue of whether or not code changes at all, and who gets to see what part of the bot code to decide this, is difficult.

Been thinking about this problem for years...  I have been focusing on design of a "cell", trying to decide what the software running on a single node should look like.  A "cell" is a single automaton running on a single CPU core, which performs a small, well-defined role in support of The Digital Organism.  Some cells collectively form the brain (encrypted, distribution storage of bot source code and metadata), other cells cooperate to create the desired service (StorJ == customer data storage), etc.

To be concrete, it might look like a bytecode engine, and a very basic firmware that rotates through a list of high level goals.  Bytecode engine may look quite a bit like Parrot VM: may execute any programmatic script, and includes necessary built-in capabilities (file i/o, network i/o, and encryption) that permit bot bootstrapping and basic cell-to-cell communication.
legendary
Activity: 3066
Merit: 1147
The revolution will be monetized!
I can't stop thinking about this. I think I'm done being productive for the day.
So here are some elements that could be included in a “BitBot”.

Self hosting- The bot can rent a server and install itself. It may even have preferences as to the location of the server.

Begging-
Code that identifies forums, sets up an account, then begs for bitcoins.  It might also beg via tweets. It may explain itself or beg under a fictitious pretext.

Code sampling- The bot identifies code from appropriate languages. It then snips out logical components of the code, such as a routine or function. It then produces multiple copies of itself  that includes the new code in various positions. If the bot passes a self test of core functionality with the new code, then the new code is included in future iterations. Of course, overwhelmingly the new code will break the bot. Just as most mutations are not advantageous to organisms.  

Solicitation of features- The bot checks a website regularly to see the results of a popularity contest. The contest asks visitors to suggest additional functionality for the bot. Ideas voted up the most are copied by the bot, and then is posted as a programming job by the bot. Anyone who writes the code is then paid in BTC and the bot recompiles with new abilities.

This list could go on and on.
hero member
Activity: 826
Merit: 1000
Humanity's only hope is to take down skynet with PayPal chargebacks.
Humanity is already doomed. We must evolve to work along side machines, rather than remain stagnant while the tables turn.
legendary
Activity: 3066
Merit: 1147
The revolution will be monetized!
Humanity's only hope is to take down skynet with PayPal chargebacks.
legendary
Activity: 1148
Merit: 1008
If you want to walk on water, get out of the boat
In b4 bitcoin outlawed because "it would create skynet and allow it to kill the humanity"

And everyone who use bitcoin jailed for "terrorism"
donator
Activity: 826
Merit: 1060
This stuff is taken seriously by academics.

The first Colloquium on the Law of Transhuman Persons was held in Florida in 2005. One of the pieces was about a computer that started moonlighting as a Google Answers Researcher (back in the days before Google cancelled that service) in order to earn enough money to pay its fees. Just as it was about to have its plug pulled, it found a host in a different legal jurisdiction...

More here, from a 2007 blog post:
The Transhuman Google Answers Researcher
hero member
Activity: 955
Merit: 1002
Gulp - you've just predicted the end of humanity.
Self evolving AIs living off bitcoin - purchasing what they need to survive in the cloud via bitcoin. They become our masters and we don't even realise it before it's too late.
legendary
Activity: 3066
Merit: 1147
The revolution will be monetized!
Visionary julz, just visionary.  Shocked
And like any such idea, awesome and dangerous.  One could envision AI bot nets and viri. even software that incorporates and tests new code. Allowing the code to evolve in unexpected directions. Or code that autonomously requests new functionality over the net and then pays programmers in BTC.
SKYNET is alive! and she takes bitcoin.
sr. member
Activity: 476
Merit: 250
Another novel.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accelerando_(novel)

One of the sub plots is that AI's have been given rights to form corporations.
They search out country's that have lax corporate laws to launder money, destroy the competition and grow.


legendary
Activity: 2940
Merit: 1090
SInce bitcoin provides it a way of receiving payment without having to reveal a website or host for anti spam activists to shut down when it spams people trying to get theym to send money, it might be able to do quite well as a spammer. Prepare a new place to be hosted, set itself up there safely, then spam the heck out of the old location until it is shut down. The new child collects the proceeds from the blockchain, sets up another new bolthole, and proceeds to spam again...

...Heck it could even try actually sending people whatever they thought sending the coins was goign to buy them. Who knows, maybe if it signs its spam it could build up a rep to customers that might make it a more lucrative spammer that way than if it simply took them money without providing anything in return.

-MarkM-
hero member
Activity: 770
Merit: 500
Problem with a miner itself being the agent is that at present mining is still not profitable, and is also extremely competitive. The agent itself would have an incentive not to propagate and keep difficulty as low as possible. We just keep mining cause we're blinded by our greed  Cheesy
Mining doesn't need to be the agent's only activity.
But it is a property that will yield a steady and regular income and I expect that agents that show this characteristic will have better chances to survive than agents that don't.
If that kind of chatacteristic sticks around, the Bitcoin network will become more autonomous.
legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 1035
Problem with a miner itself being the agent is that at present mining is still not profitable, and is also extremely competitive. The agent itself would have an incentive not to propagate and keep difficulty as low as possible. We just keep mining cause we're blinded by our greed  Cheesy
hero member
Activity: 770
Merit: 500
StorJ (pronounced Storage)
That sounds amazingly cool.
I'll pay 100 BTC to anyone who builds a successful self-reproducing, "self-adapting" system like this.

to anyone... or anything!
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