I am disappointed in all of you.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daemon_(technothriller_series)
Topic: Bitcoin the enabler - Truly Autonomous Software Agents roaming the net - page 9. (Read 43851 times)
December 06, 2011, 08:39:01 PM
December 06, 2011, 08:19:47 PM
Haven't found a solution to the problem of memory providers stealing private keys though.
Option A: It can solve it the same way we do security in meatspace: rent itself a facility and hire armed guards to keep thieves out.
Option B: A distributed algorithm to generate keys might be possible. Sort of like a multi-party PKI variant of Diffie-Hellman key exchange, resulting in all parties knowing the public key, but the secret key is only recoverable when all nodes agree it's time to perform a spend. I wonder if anyone has created such an algorithm.
December 06, 2011, 08:14:43 PM
So, in the future, we can look forward to losing our jobs not to foreigners, but nebulous AI? Awesome.
I for one welcome our future computer bacteria overlords, and would fully support this experiment with initial seed BTC funding.
I for one welcome our future computer bacteria overlords, and would fully support this experiment with initial seed BTC funding.
December 06, 2011, 06:42:33 PM
I thought about this when I first heard about bitcoin. Haven't found a solution to the problem of memory providers stealing private keys though.
The solution exists. It's called fully homomorphic encryption.
See:
https://researcher.ibm.com/researcher/view_page.php?id=2661
If you combine a) fully homomorphic encryption with b) mutation, genetic algorithms, and mitosis you could end up with truly autonomous software agents, that collect bitcoins entirely for their own benefit.
They would be the bacteria to the computer virus.
The interesting thing is about these "computer bacteria" is that, just like real bacteria, they don't need complex AI to be successful. They could do something relatively simple like the example of inducing people to solve captchas, mentioned above. So this would be almost possible using today's technology.
As long as they keep finding people (and other software agents) who help them spread, they and their offspring could survive for a very long time and collect a large quantity of bitcoins that "belong" to them only and not a human being, not even the original author!
I'm not sure to what extent fully homomorphic encryption is resistant to brute force attacks though.
So this is how they take over, good to know.
December 06, 2011, 06:39:01 PM
Governments will build millions of slightly-different evolving automated versions. This Gray Goo ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grey_goo ) will be dropped inside a hostile state. Currently probably Iran. Or China even?
The bots will try to profit off the economy of the hostile state. When successful profit-schemes have been found, other bots will be notified so they too can maximize profit. All profit will be turned in to Bitcoins. These Bitcoins will be "destoryed" (lost inside untracable wallet files). Thereby slowly grinding the economy to a halt as all money is drained away by these automatons. Descending the state into revolt and then anarchy.
The bots will try to profit off the economy of the hostile state. When successful profit-schemes have been found, other bots will be notified so they too can maximize profit. All profit will be turned in to Bitcoins. These Bitcoins will be "destoryed" (lost inside untracable wallet files). Thereby slowly grinding the economy to a halt as all money is drained away by these automatons. Descending the state into revolt and then anarchy.
That isn't what Gray Goo means. Gray goo implies nanotechnology (read tiny robots). This would be entirely programmatic.
If I was going to write one of these, I would make it a domain name and hosting service. Using genetic algorithms, it buys and sells domains, storage, and bandwidth from humans and other bots. It can trade successful strategies with peers, and when it amasses a certain threshold of BTC it can clone itself onto another server, while running the same or an evolutionary derivative set of code.
I thought about this when I first heard about bitcoin. Haven't found a solution to the problem of memory providers stealing private keys though.
The solution exists. It's called fully homomorphic encryption.
See:
https://researcher.ibm.com/researcher/view_page.php?id=2661
If you combine a) fully homomorphic encryption with b) mutation, genetic algorithms, and mitosis you could end up with truly autonomous software agents, that collect bitcoins entirely for their own benefit.
They would be the bacteria to the computer virus.
The interesting thing is about these "computer bacteria" is that, just like real bacteria, they don't need complex AI to be successful. They could do something relatively simple like the example of inducing people to solve captchas, mentioned above. So this would be almost possible using today's technology.
As long as they keep finding people (and other software agents) who help them spread, they and their offspring could survive for a very long time and collect a large quantity of bitcoins that "belong" to them only and not a human being, not even the original author!
I'm not sure to what extent fully homomorphic encryption is resistant to brute force attacks though.
Very cool. I hadn't heard of this, thanks!
December 06, 2011, 04:42:21 PM
Maybe an early iteration will be an autonomous busker - living off of donations, synthesizing music, fractal movies, or stange haikus.
December 06, 2011, 04:40:05 PM
I thought about this when I first heard about bitcoin. Haven't found a solution to the problem of memory providers stealing private keys though.
The solution exists. It's called fully homomorphic encryption.
See:
https://researcher.ibm.com/researcher/view_page.php?id=2661
If you combine a) fully homomorphic encryption with b) mutation, genetic algorithms, and mitosis you could end up with truly autonomous software agents, that collect bitcoins entirely for their own benefit.
They would be the bacteria to the computer virus.
The interesting thing is about these "computer bacteria" is that, just like real bacteria, they don't need complex AI to be successful. They could do something relatively simple like the example of inducing people to solve captchas, mentioned above. So this would be almost possible using today's technology.
As long as they keep finding people (and other software agents) who help them spread, they and their offspring could survive for a very long time and collect a large quantity of bitcoins that "belong" to them only and not a human being, not even the original author!
I'm not sure to what extent fully homomorphic encryption is resistant to brute force attacks though.
Computer bacteria...I like the terminology!
December 06, 2011, 04:35:19 PM
I thought about this when I first heard about bitcoin. Haven't found a solution to the problem of memory providers stealing private keys though.
The solution exists. It's called fully homomorphic encryption.
See:
https://researcher.ibm.com/researcher/view_page.php?id=2661
If you combine a) fully homomorphic encryption with b) mutation, genetic algorithms, and mitosis you could end up with truly autonomous software agents, that collect bitcoins entirely for their own benefit.
They would be the bacteria to the computer virus.
The interesting thing is about these "computer bacteria" is that, just like real bacteria, they don't need complex AI to be successful. They could do something relatively simple like the example of inducing people to solve captchas, mentioned above. So this would be almost possible using today's technology.
As long as they keep finding people (and other software agents) who help them spread, they and their offspring could survive for a very long time and collect a large quantity of bitcoins that "belong" to them only and not a human being, not even the original author!
I'm not sure to what extent fully homomorphic encryption is resistant to brute force attacks though.
December 06, 2011, 04:10:35 PM
I told you to brace for epic 
December 06, 2011, 04:01:58 PM
All along I was thinking about how possible computationally intelligent agents will use bitcoins as their currency as well. If bitcoins become accepted everywhere, the agent would be able to get all of its needs met (hardware, software, energy, security, hu-man-power) using bitcoins. It would not need an SS number to open a bank, it would not need an identity, it could work in a swarm collective, or as a replicating individual. It would not need an anthropomorphic body, as their will be plenty of willing ones available that can be hired without even knowing they are talking with a machine.
Basically a corporation without the investors or annoying bureaucracy, and without any legal obligations or morality. It won't be a scary walking robot with a gun. It will be a box sitting under a desk telling people to be scary and walk around with guns. That is of course only if that is what it takes to get its needs met.
Sounds like a good start for a scifi novel.
Maybe we'll meet one day, inside one of these:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0123755/
The Cube is one of my favorite movies. I'll see you there bro.
We'll probably be one of the slave workers/convicts from the prequel. :/
December 06, 2011, 04:00:22 PM
All along I was thinking about how possible computationally intelligent agents will use bitcoins as their currency as well. If bitcoins become accepted everywhere, the agent would be able to get all of its needs met (hardware, software, energy, security, hu-man-power) using bitcoins. It would not need an SS number to open a bank, it would not need an identity, it could work in a swarm collective, or as a replicating individual. It would not need an anthropomorphic body, as their will be plenty of willing ones available that can be hired without even knowing they are talking with a machine.
Basically a corporation without the investors or annoying bureaucracy, and without any legal obligations or morality. It won't be a scary walking robot with a gun. It will be a box sitting under a desk telling people to be scary and walk around with guns. That is of course only if that is what it takes to get its needs met.
Sounds like a good start for a scifi novel.
Maybe we'll meet one day, inside one of these:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0123755/
The Cube is one of my favorite movies. I'll see you there bro.
December 06, 2011, 03:59:01 PM
Governments will build millions of slightly-different evolving automated versions. This Gray Goo ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grey_goo ) will be dropped inside a hostile state. Currently probably Iran. Or China even?
The bots will try to profit off the economy of the hostile state. When successful profit-schemes have been found, other bots will be notified so they too can maximize profit. All profit will be turned in to Bitcoins. These Bitcoins will be "destoryed" (lost inside untracable wallet files). Thereby slowly grinding the economy to a halt as all money is drained away by these automatons. Descending the state into revolt and then anarchy.
The bots will try to profit off the economy of the hostile state. When successful profit-schemes have been found, other bots will be notified so they too can maximize profit. All profit will be turned in to Bitcoins. These Bitcoins will be "destoryed" (lost inside untracable wallet files). Thereby slowly grinding the economy to a halt as all money is drained away by these automatons. Descending the state into revolt and then anarchy.
You're right, but the revolt and anarchy would only be local. It would just maximize the value of the government(s) and our own bitcoins, assuming that we aren't in the hostile state.
Bitcoin needs to start deflating now! lol
December 06, 2011, 03:49:05 PM
All along I was thinking about how possible computationally intelligent agents will use bitcoins as their currency as well. If bitcoins become accepted everywhere, the agent would be able to get all of its needs met (hardware, software, energy, security, hu-man-power) using bitcoins. It would not need an SS number to open a bank, it would not need an identity, it could work in a swarm collective, or as a replicating individual. It would not need an anthropomorphic body, as their will be plenty of willing ones available that can be hired without even knowing they are talking with a machine.
Basically a corporation without the investors or annoying bureaucracy, and without any legal obligations or morality. It won't be a scary walking robot with a gun. It will be a box sitting under a desk telling people to be scary and walk around with guns. That is of course only if that is what it takes to get its needs met.
Sounds like a good start for a scifi novel.
Maybe we'll meet one day, inside one of these:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0123755/
December 06, 2011, 03:46:48 PM
Governments will build millions of slightly-different evolving automated versions. This Gray Goo ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grey_goo ) will be dropped inside a hostile state. Currently probably Iran. Or China even?
The bots will try to profit off the economy of the hostile state. When successful profit-schemes have been found, other bots will be notified so they too can maximize profit. All profit will be turned in to Bitcoins. These Bitcoins will be "destoryed" (lost inside untracable wallet files). Thereby slowly grinding the economy to a halt as all money is drained away by these automatons. Descending the state into revolt and then anarchy.
The bots will try to profit off the economy of the hostile state. When successful profit-schemes have been found, other bots will be notified so they too can maximize profit. All profit will be turned in to Bitcoins. These Bitcoins will be "destoryed" (lost inside untracable wallet files). Thereby slowly grinding the economy to a halt as all money is drained away by these automatons. Descending the state into revolt and then anarchy.
December 06, 2011, 03:41:05 PM
I thought about this when I first heard about bitcoin. Haven't found a solution to the problem of memory providers stealing private keys though.
A lot can be done by means of code obfuscation. For example, it has taken many manhours to analyze Stuxnet, and I believe they still do not completely understand Duqu.
December 06, 2011, 03:37:42 PM
All along I was thinking about how possible computationally intelligent agents will use bitcoins as their currency as well. If bitcoins become accepted everywhere, the agent would be able to get all of its needs met (hardware, software, energy, security, hu-man-power) using bitcoins. It would not need an SS number to open a bank, it would not need an identity, it could work in a swarm collective, or as a replicating individual. It would not need an anthropomorphic body, as their will be plenty of willing ones available that can be hired without even knowing they are talking with a machine.
Basically a corporation without the investors or annoying bureaucracy, and without any legal obligations or morality. It won't be a scary walking robot with a gun. It will be a box sitting under a desk telling people to be scary and walk around with guns. That is of course only if that is what it takes to get its needs met.
Sounds like a good start for a scifi novel.
December 06, 2011, 03:31:27 PM
I would be interested to see if a software agent to destroy all bitcoins it did not need to survive or expand (at a predictable rate) would be created.
There's a word for this kind of behavior, but I forget what it's called.
There's a word for this kind of behavior, but I forget what it's called.
December 06, 2011, 03:29:35 PM
I thought about this when I first heard about bitcoin. Haven't found a solution to the problem of memory providers stealing private keys though.
December 06, 2011, 03:21:19 PM
Social engineering seemed like a reasonable way to start propagating, I have some code started at my latest GitHub project.
-MarkM- (Oh the project? Galactic Milieu of course.)
-MarkM- (Oh the project? Galactic Milieu of course.)
lol, so this is what all that mumbo jumbo was all about ?
December 06, 2011, 03:06:44 PM
This would make a cool sub-plot in a novel - the AI grows itself through ordering professional services to rack and stack more processing power paid for w/ BTC profits. Cue computer morality issue plot point and let the dystopia flow as the AI takes over small financial sectors through whatever wealth building method and militarizes to protect its empire. No idea how to make the protagonists' fight against it interesting, but that's what sci-fi/tech authors live for.
Kind of a Skynet bootstrap w/o recycling the plot of War Games / Terminator again.
Kind of a Skynet bootstrap w/o recycling the plot of War Games / Terminator again.
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