Topic: Bitcoin will be at CES2013 (Official Thread) - page 3. (Read 36660 times)

Thats a awesome booth, I definitely will be there this year il make sure to stop by!

With a good set of preconceived notions you can proceed deductively to "prove" anything. I happen not to think much of your set, is all.

lol.  ok, i'm convinced; you need to give up TA and go into comedy.  but change your nick.

just imagine; lucif in the "making ppl happy" business.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iaysTVcounI

Another interview?

You bought 20 Jalapenos? Even if they were shipping today you should cancel your order, that's a waste of money

20x4.5 GH/s = 90 GH/s for 20x$149 = $2980


For $2598 you could have had 120GH/s if you purchased 2 singles...

Another interview with Josh

Turn on subtitles

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4SnUObMd0o

BFL must life from anything ... the new Building cost lots of money or ?
The Employers doesnt works with Love .... ect .. pp

So I think they can get a problem if more People cancel her order and the last one will Lose all .... O.o
I Cancel my 20 Jalapenos ... and its Done ...

http://mineforeman.com/2013/01/14/butterfly-labs-names-a-shipping-date/

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/announcements/692-bfl-asic-status.html

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/bfl-forum-miscellaneous/690-13-jan-2013-asic-update-discussion-thread-3.html#post10314
BFL Josh quoted

"Just so everyone understands why we have not, up until now, provided updates like this, I want to point out that if we had released this type of information in the beginning, it would have given our competitors a substantial boost in figuring out how to design a product that would compete with us. This is something we do not want to happen. We will not pay for others to learn from our experience in this particular venture. They need to pay the piper if they want to ship a competing product. Since Avalon is commited at this point and bASIC is dead, there is now no harm in releasing the information. I suspect Avalon will run into the same heat issues we ran into once they finally turn on a unit and make it go. In fact, it may be much worse since they are on 110nm and have 80+ chips (speculation) to cool. On the other hand, it may simply be because the heat density in our full custom 65nm chip just overwhelms a QFN package cooled by vias and doing the same thing on a place and route 110nm QFN would work ok. We have not tried it, so who's to say. But my point is, we can't release that sort of information while it still will benefit our competition. The same goes for specific timelines - it will give the competition something specific to shoot for. Again, Avalon is now committed and there is nothing they can do to change it with 5 days to go, so the release of that information is acceptable.

Going forward, I will be posting more detailed updates, since that sort of information will not benefit Avalon. They either ship on the 19th or they delay and nothing we reveal can change that.

So expect more frequent, more accurate updates going forward."


BFL NAMES SHIPPING DATE

Honestly I think he had to post this to stop the cancellations. I don't think this changes anything.
discuss

Pirate caused the increase in BTC price that preceded the decrease he caused (See my post here). His net effect on BTC price is unknown and probably negligible.

Pirate did cause an extremely short-lived (24-48 hours) decrease of the price, yes.

But I was arguing with lucif who used the expression "killing bitcoin price". My point is that I disagree that a short-lived volatility can be described by his words.

Would love to hear this. Deja Vu of MNW.

+1

TYVM about my little girl - she changed my life instantly.  I'm not very emotional in general, and cried for the first 5 days whenever I would see my beautiful wife holding my beautiful daughter and realized how insanely lucky I have gotten in this world and how I should enjoy every second of these special moments.  I basically have been on auto-show any other human I come in contact with my baby pix, and I never understood why ppl did that to me when I didn't care about their baby, but I totally get it now.   Her name is Anna Micon and I call her the annamicon (ah-nah-mah-con) & she is a singularity & she will continue the crypto-activist revolution born from this currency.  All the nerds will follow the hot & smart female crypto-anarchist or crypto-activist whichever she prefers.

BFL Josh Zerlan or anyone else from Butterfly labs is welcome on my podcast any time they wish.  It usually runs Wed. 7pm live, then podcasted later, but i'll make time day or night to have this debate.  No editing of any sort and if BFL is concerned we can do exactly equal time to speak.  Others can record and upload to make sure no edits or funny business.  I highly doubt a company like BFL, which I can poke endless holes through their business by asking the tough questions, would ever agree to this.  Offer on the table for literally any time, day or night, starting now.

So you basically contradict yourself.
>Pirate didn't cause a decrease of Bitcoin's price
>Pirate caused a decrease of Bitcoin's price, but it recovered quickly

I remember the day of the event of the red circle: this was pirate placing a handful of very large sell orders (he was announcing them on IRC minutes before doing it). But as the graph shows, the market recovered very quickly after this day. So, again, I fail to see any evidence that pirate caused Bitcoin to lose its value on the long term. On the contrary, people were buying BTC to invest in pirate, causing the price to slightly increase for multiple months, until BTCST defaulted.

As to the blue circle, it is not evident that this was caused by glbse. It just seems to be regular volatility. Even if glbse was the cause, this was not a significant event.

You are wrong about MtGox. I reported on the hack: http://blog.zorinaq.com/?e=55 The price never went down to .01 as these were bogus trades that were later reversed. And you failed to read my explanation of the bubble popping:


Besides, why would the hack affect the price multiple months later? Some investor waking up in December after a 6-month coma, telling himself, "damn MtGox was hacked in June, I should sell now!" This makes no sense. If anything, the hack should have affected the price in the days (not months) following the re-opening of the market, but it did not.

Josh from BFL is such an ugly fucker. IT people in general aren't much to look at, but he has a truly awful face.

Micon can teach his daughter a lesson about honesty in some years ... "Sneaking" into a convention.

That helps us piece together the events. Thanks.

If I haven't said it before, congrats on becoming a father. I hope all is well on that front.

I've never interacted with Dave from BFL, so I can't speak to how competent he is.

It sounds like Dave relayed the story to Josh and may have missed your intentions for being there.

My suggestion is to let tempers cool a bit and have Josh on your podcast sometime AFTER BFL ships.

It would, of course, be more entertaining to cointinue the drama, but some of us are more interested in facts. Now back to your regularly scheduled trolling.

SysRun thanks for your questions.  I did not explain day 1 properly, and really wasn't planning on any of this happening, wasn't planning to make a scene or even come back the next day, but b/c of what happened on day 1 I felt compelled to post here and go back to get the full story the next day.  I told this story to some private skype conversations about BTC I am involved in, but never on these boards, and I should tell my side because Josh is very good at marketing, and instead of working on what must be massive supply chain issues for his company he does 24/7 damage control.

This is to the best I can remember.  I wasn't recording anything day 1, wasn't planning on anything but sneaking into CES to shake some BTC hands as I always do when BTC companies buy booths in Vegas for conventions.

1)  About "sneaking in" to CES:  I always "sneak in" to all conventions I want to go to here in Vegas.  I wear my WSOP media badge from a few years ago and just walk in like a boss.  Sure I could call whatever bitcoin-facing booth is there and have them give me a badge for the ~30 minutes I'll be there.  As will all conferences, the booth buyers usually need to pay extra for another badge, or at the very least pull a "hey let me use your badge and then I walk out with 2 badges and give one to you"   - I "sneak in" because it is +EV for everyone involved.  Next time, if ever, BFL comes to the conference I will acquire a legitimate badge as it was clear they called security to have me removed.  

2)  About the "stomping and cussing" on day 1 that Josh keeps referring to.  First off, Josh was not there day 1.  Only Dave was in the booth representing BFL.  I imagine Josh was off doing Yoga or other form of meditation & self-reflection.  We will get to that in a second.  Let's start at the beginning:

3)  Whenever a bitcoin booth at any conference comes to Vegas, I go to say hi, shake a hand, say "hey, I'm Micon.  I help Freemoney run SealsWithClubs, the market leading bitcoin online poker site."  And just see who is there and what they want to talk about, trade bitcoin ideas for ~20-30 minutes then be on my way.  I have done this many times and met a bunch of BTC industry leaders.  Erik Voorhees I met this way and he is an amazingly awesome human, and Charlie Shrem I met I think at the same Money2020 conference maybe 6 months ago or so at Aria, and I had Charlie on my donkdown podcast for an awesome interview about the bitinstant operation based in New York.  I was skeptical about parts of bitinstant and bitpay at the start, but when I asked the company directors of those organizations I was met with clear answers and follow up interviews.

4) Ok so I was on the same grind on day 1 CES - just go and meet the boys again, shake some hands, congratulate bitpay on the round of funding, etc.  My daughter was born ~ 2 weeks ago but I made time before picking my parents up at the airport to stop by CES to do this because I feel it is very important, + I'm a huge nerd and CES is nerd porn.  Right after the nerd porn convention they have a real porn convention here but that's not the point of this story.  When I found the Bitpay booth,  I didn't realize they would be sharing a booth with BFL, in fact I was very excited to see BFL equipment on display and I planned on asking some extremely nerdy questions about how the hardware will solve the proof-of-work problem much, much faster than current equipment.  I also wanted to understand the metrics of what ASIC will do to the network hash rate, as I understand mining conceptually but not technically.

5) Dave immediately engaged me when I walked near the BFL equipment.  I congratulated him on selling a large amount of pre-orders.  he said in a smug way "yeah... we've done very well"  To a studied poker professional such as myself, his body language gave me the impression that this man felt by collecting the pre-order monies he has already done well.   If I were in his shoes, the first thing I would have said was "We have a huge responsibility to get these things shipped ASAP.  The community has handed us a large amount of money"   I would feel like the weight of the world was on my shoulders to make good on the massively distributed promise of sending these machines.  Dave felt like a winner, IMO.

6)  I asked very plainly "is this your ASICs" or something to that effect.  This is when it got predatory.  He showed me the box of fans + 1 android tablet and said that is where ASIC chips will eventually go, and the android device will be the output screen to show you how fast it's mining and other stats.  I asked what the cube connected to a second android sitting on top of the fan-box was, and Dave said it's an FPGA miner that BFL used to sell, but it wasn't currently mining and you can't buy it from BFL anymore.  I asked Dave what items were available for purchase right now from BFL that they could ship immediately, he said there were none.  I then asked when they would ship ASICs, he said "in a couple of weeks," and showed me 3 cases that ASIC chips would come inside.

7)  After it was clear I was no longer a friendly and was asking some tough questions, he hit me with a classic scammer line something to the effect of "if you don't believe in BFL, then you don't believe in bitcoin."  This is where the "stomping and profanity" as Josh put it came in.  Please don't take Josh's or My word for it - Ask the bitpay guys about this next part - I give a very intelligent response to Dave, certainly using profanity for emphasis (but not in the personally derogatory way that Josh Zerlan does to me here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UlWrmIqGs3Y&feature=youtu.be&t=2m43s ) more like "I believe so much in bitcoin that I wear this fucking button (point to bitcoin button I always wear when leaving the house for any reason) each day, and help run the market leading bitcoin online poker site, dedicating most of my awake time to the betterment of this technology."  Ask the bitpay guys.  I was certainly pissed off, and this guy used a classic scammer line on me and IMO it required a forceful response so Dave understands that I'm a real guy with real BTC credentials, and his line is bullshit and +1's in my head that he and his company are dishonest.

 After my response, emotions briefly settled, and I asked him when filled with ASICs how fast this machine would hash at.  He said something like 1+ T-hashes per second.  I.e. 1000 ghashes/s , would produce in terms of Dave did not know network hashrate.  I told him it wasn't a test, just tell me about how many T-hashes/s the network hash rate was.  Dave said he still didn't know, so I quickly looked it up on my Galaxy Note II by Samsung running Android Jellybean OS by removing the S-pen and quickly speaking into google "total bitcoin network hashrate"   This site came up: http://bitcoin.sipa.be/  and to me it looks like the current total bitcoin network hashrate is around 20-25 Thash/s - which means that if Dave was right, just one of these boxes could have ~ 6% of total current network hashing power.   I was surprised he had never run the math before...

9) so after this, I post the pic I took and illustrated that BFL did not bring anything worthwhile to CES.  I posted on bitcointalk that I'd be back tomorrow to film closely and ask the tough questions.  Obviously we all saw Josh Zerlan's response: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UlWrmIqGs3Y&feature=youtu.be&t=2m43s


If there is anything that needs clarification please ask.  I am 100% transparent.  I further state that it is possible I have made a small chronological or grammatical error of some sort.  I feel I captured the general feel of the day 1 CES experience as it relates to BFL.

Trying to see through the malarkey, I hear you.

First question for you, Micon. Can you elaborate on your interaction with Dave on the first day you went to CES? There is some contention on what actually happened. Stomping around exclaiming "Its just a box with fans!" and dropping the F bomb is something you're purported to have done.

Also, the fake badge thing, well it makes you look less credible tbh... Not that you had it, but that you got caught...

But anyway, if you could just address the accusation about your behavior on the first day you visited CES.

I watched the video you put up and my concern is you are offended by your interaction and looking for a fight at any cost so that you feel you've gotten revenge.