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Topic: Bitcoin will be at CES2013 (Official Thread) - page 7. (Read 36646 times)

sr. member
Activity: 546
Merit: 252
Proof-of-Stake Blockchain Network
Actually what is killing bitcoin price?
1. Mtgox hack in June 2011
2. Bitcoinica hack/scam
3. Pirateat40
4. glbse

I don't remember any of these 4 events causing a decrease of Bitcoin's price.

the red circle shows the fall of the price after Pirate's operation shut down.
the blue circle shows the fall after glbse getting closed.
mrb
legendary
Activity: 1512
Merit: 1027
Actually what is killing bitcoin price?
1. Mtgox hack in June 2011
2. Bitcoinica hack/scam
3. Pirateat40
4. glbse

I don't remember any of these 4 events causing a decrease of Bitcoin's price.

The reason of the price decrease between Jun and Dec 2011 was an popping of the valuation bubble, not the MtGox hack. In fact, BTC had already lost half of its peak value ($30 down to $15) before the hack had even occurred. I would even argue that the hack helped slow down the rate at which BTC was loosing value: MtGox suspended trading for a full week, allowing traders to cool down, and its rate managed to stay above $15 for a full 2+ weeks after trading was re-opened, a period during which anybody who wanted out presumably sold. It then progressively decreased over the next few months, but it was obviously a continuation of the popping of the valuation bubble.
hero member
Activity: 644
Merit: 500
The first is out: https://www.btcfpga.com/forum/index.php?topic=1041.msg3093

Basic rip.

BFL - prepare!
Bitpay - prepare!



http://youtu.be/0jF5Xc3MIVk?t=12m53s

When it comes to money the devil is always in the details. No matter what or who is in charge corruption will always be the case. Even the trusted government and banks corruption always rises like cream.
sr. member
Activity: 546
Merit: 252
Proof-of-Stake Blockchain Network
These are my favorite parts :
No, but relatively close.
I know a few Romanians, though. They taught me how to greet a Romanian girl. I'm supposed to say 'sugi pula'. If she refuses, I'm supposed to reply 'fututi morti mati' 

Did it ever work out for you?
Never met a Romanian girl.
legendary
Activity: 1222
Merit: 1016
Live and Let Live
Bitpay - prepare!

I think that Bitpay is a bridge too-far.  Tony is a great guy.
hero member
Activity: 756
Merit: 522
No, but relatively close.
I know a few Romanians, though. They taught me how to greet a Romanian girl. I'm supposed to say 'sugi pula'. If she refuses, I'm supposed to reply 'fututi morti mati' 

Did it ever work out for you?
sr. member
Activity: 462
Merit: 250
Clown prophet
hero member
Activity: 756
Merit: 522
No. I hate lack of security and responsibility.

Actually what is killing bitcoin price?

1. Mtgox hack in June 2011
2. Bitcoinica hack/scam
3. Pirateat40
4. glbse

And now Bitpay with BFL crew.

How long this will continue? I like to kill them, not Bitcoin.

If we see a responsible secure bitcoin payment processor - I will shake it hand.

But we have slovens here so far.

Pretty spot on, that. Personal responsibility, nobody wants it.
sr. member
Activity: 462
Merit: 250
Clown prophet
The first is out: https://www.btcfpga.com/forum/index.php?topic=1041.msg3093

Basic rip.

BFL - prepare!
Bitpay - prepare!


full member
Activity: 196
Merit: 100
ASIC is all about who is first to product.  $100k is almost a drop in the bucket to get the products ready to ship ASAP.

This.

A "prototype" in the ASIC world generally means waiting for a MPW round that happens to be using the setup you need...this could mean months and months.
full member
Activity: 196
Merit: 100

Being produced? You realise that it takes a long time to produce them, right? This means that if the initial batch doesn't work (annoyingly high chance), it takes a long time to get the second batch. If that doesn't work either, you're forced to delay the shipment for a third, etc.


You are talkng out of your ass.
Before ANY production runs (of ANY electronic device) are made the design is already completely prototyped and working.
No person in the world will run a production batch of an untested unprototyped design.
It would be a complete waste of money because it is almost 100% sure there will be some form of design error.
You can only start making predictions about the time it takes for one batch IF you have a working prototype and your product is quite finished.
THEN and only then do you invest money in an actual production run.
The BFL delivery dates don't add up. They must know fully well that their 'dates' were unresponsibly optimistic. Furthermore it appears they are fully depending on some 3rd party for their product since they say they will deliver soon but still have no prototype. This propably also means that the 3rd party they take the product from still has to do all the testing phases etc before they can produce a batch.
If their claim that BFL designed the chip themselfs is true then i don't think it is financially possible to run a batch without first going through several revisions which implies several more or less working prototypes.
Since BFL doesn't have a working prototype (or at least are unable or unwilling to show it) you can SAFELY assume they are not ready for a real batch of any size.

So for now BFL has given no reason whatsoever to trust that they will deliver anytime soon.
In any case, BFL claims they have extra special super experience with delays from the FPGA batches and have therefore claimed that they will, for sure, deliver in october 2012.
It is now January 2013, BFL showed an empty case on CES and they still haven't got a clue when exactly they will deliver.
This just means they have no control whatsoever about the process. They have shown that the dates they mentioned were meaningless.
One could even say their shipment dates are outright lies because they were never realistic in the first place given the fact that there is no prototype.


Is that so?
sr. member
Activity: 462
Merit: 250
Clown prophet
People outside Bitcoin community whatever they hear about Bitcoin - its a hack, scam, theft, criminal. Look at google trends with news marks.

And these slovens killing Bitcoin - NOT ME.

I just troll them to show their real face. They kill trust in Bitcoin.

I am not an enemy, I just say truth. Just enough slovens.

Bitpay directly connected with BFL crew scam - even on their ad in CES. Allright. Lets teach them responsibility for their actions.
sr. member
Activity: 462
Merit: 250
Clown prophet
No. I hate lack of security and responsibility.

Actually what is killing bitcoin price?

1. Mtgox hack in June 2011
2. Bitcoinica hack/scam
3. Pirateat40
4. glbse

And now Bitpay with BFL crew.

How long this will continue? I like to kill them, not Bitcoin.

If we see a responsible secure bitcoin payment processor - I will shake it hand.

But we have slovens here so far.
legendary
Activity: 1022
Merit: 1000
Yeah its a good idea to hint merchant lowest level of security. Its a good idea to advertise with huge font "NO PCI COMPLIANCE" on their CES ad (e.g. no security).

Most of Bitpay merchants I saw using 0-confirmation scheme.

Bitpay: are you from mars, eh?

What a sloven payment processor.

You hate all bitcoin bussines??
sr. member
Activity: 462
Merit: 250
Clown prophet
Yeah its a good idea to hint merchant lowest level of security. Its a good idea to advertise with huge font "NO PCI COMPLIANCE" on their CES ad (e.g. no security).

Most of Bitpay merchants I saw using 0-confirmation scheme.

Bitpay: are you from mars, eh?

What a sloven payment processor.
legendary
Activity: 1386
Merit: 1004
Btw, Bitpay accepts 0-confirmation transactions

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/serious-vulnerability-related-to-accepting-zero-confirmation-transactions-136017

Now all scam them with fake paymetns! Smiley

Bitpay gives the merchant the option to accept them as far as I know.  You can set to three different levels of security in case you are worried.  While I have not received a notice, if you do take a 0 conf you will get a notice if a double spend was done.  If you are shipping a physical product any setting should be safe as you will know shortly after that there was a problem.  If you are delivering an electronic product 0 conf is probably not a good idea.  It is your choice. 
legendary
Activity: 1400
Merit: 1005

Being produced? You realise that it takes a long time to produce them, right? This means that if the initial batch doesn't work (annoyingly high chance), it takes a long time to get the second batch. If that doesn't work either, you're forced to delay the shipment for a third, etc.


You are talkng out of your ass.
Before ANY production runs (of ANY electronic device) are made the design is already completely prototyped and working.
No person in the world will run a production batch of an untested unprototyped design.
It would be a complete waste of money because it is almost 100% sure there will be some form of design error.
You can only start making predictions about the time it takes for one batch IF you have a working prototype and your product is quite finished.
THEN and only then do you invest money in an actual production run.
The BFL delivery dates don't add up. They must know fully well that their 'dates' were unresponsibly optimistic. Furthermore it appears they are fully depending on some 3rd party for their product since they say they will deliver soon but still have no prototype. This propably also means that the 3rd party they take the product from still has to do all the testing phases etc before they can produce a batch.
If their claim that BFL designed the chip themselfs is true then i don't think it is financially possible to run a batch without first going through several revisions which implies several more or less working prototypes.
Since BFL doesn't have a working prototype (or at least are unable or unwilling to show it) you can SAFELY assume they are not ready for a real batch of any size.

So for now BFL has given no reason whatsoever to trust that they will deliver anytime soon.
In any case, BFL claims they have extra special super experience with delays from the FPGA batches and have therefore claimed that they will, for sure, deliver in october 2012.
It is now January 2013, BFL showed an empty case on CES and they still haven't got a clue when exactly they will deliver.
This just means they have no control whatsoever about the process. They have shown that the dates they mentioned were meaningless.
One could even say their shipment dates are outright lies because they were never realistic in the first place given the fact that there is no prototype.

Let's see...

If I'm BFL, and working to try to get chips to customers, would I rather spend $100k on a 3rd full run of chips (after supposedly all of the problems from the first two batches have been fixed), hoping that they work properly, or would I rather spend $10k on prototype chips so that I can test first, risking $3M in preorders by forcing customers to wait ANOTHER 4-6 weeks for a full production run?

$90k sounds like a reasonable cost when you're talking about the risk of potentially hundreds of thousands of dollars of preorders being cancelled and sales shifting to other companies.

ASIC is all about who is first to product.  $100k is almost a drop in the bucket to get the products ready to ship ASAP.
legendary
Activity: 1904
Merit: 1002
I'm sure you could start you own fraudulent/mismanaged company in your country too.

Good Luck
My country is an oligarchical semi-feudal bureaucratic shithole with complete lack of venture capital. Believe me, it is much easier to start any company in 'Murrica, even a fraudulent one.


Are you like...in Romania?
No, but relatively close.
I know a few Romanians, though. They taught me how to greet a Romanian girl. I'm supposed to say 'sugi pula'. If she refuses, I'm supposed to reply 'fututi morti mati'  Cheesy

Google translate doesn't quite handle the second one... something about fucking something dead.
sr. member
Activity: 546
Merit: 252
Proof-of-Stake Blockchain Network
I'm sure you could start you own fraudulent/mismanaged company in your country too.

Good Luck
My country is an oligarchical semi-feudal bureaucratic shithole with complete lack of venture capital. Believe me, it is much easier to start any company in 'Murrica, even a fraudulent one.


Are you like...in Romania?
No, but relatively close.
I know a few Romanians, though. They taught me how to greet a Romanian girl. I'm supposed to say 'sugi pula'. If she refuses, I'm supposed to reply 'fututi morti mati'  Cheesy
hero member
Activity: 756
Merit: 522
It surprises me how much money can be handled by such incompetent managers and/or scammers.
I think I'll start a business in the US.

Bitconica
Intersango
Bitmarket.eu

They are not US companies. I'm sure you could start you own fraudulent/mismanaged company in your country too.

Good Luck

He like...has a point. I'm blown away.

Bitconica
Intersango
Bitmarket.eu
They are not US companies.
I stand corrected.

I'm sure you could start you own fraudulent/mismanaged company in your country too.

Good Luck
My country is an oligarchical semi-feudal bureaucratic shithole with complete lack of venture capital. Believe me, it is much easier to start any company in 'Murrica, even a fraudulent one.

Are you like...in Romania?

You are talkng out of your ass.
Before ANY production runs (of ANY electronic device) are made the design is already completely prototyped and working.
No person in the world will run a production batch of an untested unprototyped design.

Hi Mobo. So sorry to have to say this but...well...contrary to what anyone could have imagined before, someone allegedly did do exactly that (of course talk is cheap and claims easy for scammers, but still).

If their claim that BFL designed the chip themselfs is true then

It would be the first claim they made that's actually true. Not very likely.

BFL is a marketing company (and an incredibly poor one, in many aspects). Their business is keeping those Google ads up and siphoning the incoming money into more or less safe holes. Everything else is everyone else's problem.
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