Bitcoin XT - Officially #REKT (also goes for BIP101 fraud) - page 47.

BitUsher

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Quote from: Zarathustra on December 07, 2015, 05:47:17 AM

The original implementation of segregated witness was also CryptoNote coins, as I mention here. Wuille's presentation fails to credit this alternative cryptocurrency at all (as did the Elements sidechains presentations/implementation/notes). Ironically the second time a major Bitcoin soft fork has come from an alt.

https://np.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/3vqkat/segregated_witness_allows_us_to_soft_fork_a_block/cxptr9e

Offtopic? Why does CryptoNote need to be mentioned here or the presentation? Segregated Witness is a really old concept that has been discussed in the Bitcoin community back in 2011 from Russel Oconnor.

Zarathustra

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The original implementation of segregated witness was also CryptoNote coins, as I mention here. Wuille's presentation fails to credit this alternative cryptocurrency at all (as did the Elements sidechains presentations/implementation/notes). Ironically the second time a major Bitcoin soft fork has come from an alt.

https://np.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/3vqkat/segregated_witness_allows_us_to_soft_fork_a_block/cxptr9e

gmaxwell

staff

Activity: 4284

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Segwitness is awesome... and an actual advance in scalablity, not just a parameter twiddle that eats into the safety margin.

In other news, this site is the new hottness on Reddit: http://bitcoinocracy.com/ ... actually, I'm a bit surprised that the 101 supporters had that many coins available without the industrial pro-XT crowd substantially dipping into customer funds (I assume we'll notice when that happens...).

Lauda

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Activity: 2674

Merit: 3000

Terminated.

Segregated witness has obliterated both BIP101 and XT. Cheers to the Core developers for actually providing a real solution. It can even be done with a soft fork.

marcus_of_augustus

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Activity: 3920

Merit: 2349

Eadem mutata resurgo

still as clueless as ever ...

Zarathustra

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Activity: 1162

Merit: 1004

Quote from: brg444 on December 06, 2015, 08:51:11 PM

In true cypherpunk fashion Peter Wuille just hammered the final nails into Bitcoin bloaters coffin, with code.

As predicted: They'll be forced to present proposals that raise their beloved limit. It's the market, stupid!

The business model to destroy transactions with the intended artificial fee market is now officially #REKT

danielW

sr. member

Activity: 277

Merit: 257

hmm, I made a post on reddit informing them but deleted it now, I wont spoil your guys party. Well played tho, many XT supporters again exposed as partisan tribal haters.

theymos

administrator

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Merit: 13032

Quote from: gmaxwell on December 06, 2015, 05:58:32 PM

Tehehe: https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/3vpb0u/think_bitcoin_20_is_a_good_idea_had_dreams_of/

(I await the wall of [deleted] when people start realizing how embarrassing their comments are...)

LOL

(I still don't agree with your and Satoshi's dislike of Bitcoin data transactions, though. I still think that my old BitDNS idea, while flawed, would work better than Namecoin or a sidechain.)

brg444

hero member

Activity: 644

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Bitcoin replaces central, not commercial, banks

In true cypherpunk fashion Peter Wuille just hammered the final nails into Bitcoin bloaters coffin, with code.

marcus_of_augustus

legendary

Activity: 3920

Merit: 2349

Eadem mutata resurgo

Quote from: iCEBREAKER on December 06, 2015, 07:06:39 PM

Quote from: gmaxwell on December 06, 2015, 05:58:32 PM

Tehehe: https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/3vpb0u/think_bitcoin_20_is_a_good_idea_had_dreams_of/

(I await the wall of [deleted] when people start realizing how embarrassing their comments are...)

Well played! Grin

So much gold in the original post, which foretells the coming of myriad altcoins, shapeshift, and atomic cross-chain transfers.

Quote from: satoshi on December 10, 2010, 12:29:28 PM

Piling every proof-of-work quorum system in the world into one dataset doesn't scale.

Bitcoin and BitDNS can be used separately. Users shouldn't have to download all of both to use one or the other. BitDNS users may not want to download everything the next several unrelated networks decide to pile in either.

The networks need to have separate fates. BitDNS users might be completely liberal about adding any large data features since relatively few domain registrars are needed, while Bitcoin users might get increasingly tyrannical about limiting the size of the chain so it's easy for lots of users and small devices.

Fears about securely buying domains with Bitcoins are a red herring. It's easy to trade Bitcoins for other non-repudiable commodities.

If you're still worried about it, it's cryptographically possible to make a risk free trade. The two parties would set up transactions on both sides such that when they both sign the transactions, the second signer's signature triggers the release of both. The second signer can't release one without releasing the other.

BitDNS, for anybody who hasn't been following, was implemented as Namecoin.

It is ideally suited to decentrally store/anchor data of all types, not just DNS, ID and TLS cert . types. Everyone climbing on to the "blockchain' bandwagon has missed that storage of data can ideally already be done in Namecoin, with security of hashpower a good percentage of Bitcoin's through merge-mining. If these gold-rushers had just spent a fraction of their bloated VC budgets on supporting Namecoin development then they have a ready made blockchain data storage ... just have to wait for them (free market) to catch up conceptually, but alas sometimes one wonders if they ever get tired of going off on tangents. Fees aligning with costs is the key.

iCEBREAKER

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Activity: 2156

Merit: 1072

Crypto is the separation of Power and State.

Quote from: marcus_of_augustus on December 06, 2015, 06:25:34 PM

Quote from: gmaxwell on December 06, 2015, 05:58:32 PM

Tehehe: https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/3vpb0u/think_bitcoin_20_is_a_good_idea_had_dreams_of/

(I await the wall of [deleted] when people start realizing how embarrassing their comments are...)

... that thread is an eye-opener. Who knew the disconnect in understandings is that large?

I knew the disconnect in understandings is that large.

However bad you imagine Eternal Bitcoin September will be, the reality is worse.

That's why many of us call them Redditards.

iCEBREAKER

legendary

Activity: 2156

Merit: 1072

Crypto is the separation of Power and State.

Quote from: gmaxwell on December 06, 2015, 05:58:32 PM

Tehehe: https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/3vpb0u/think_bitcoin_20_is_a_good_idea_had_dreams_of/

(I await the wall of [deleted] when people start realizing how embarrassing their comments are...)

Well played! Grin

So much gold in the original post, which foretells the coming of myriad altcoins, shapeshift, and atomic cross-chain transfers.

Quote from: satoshi on December 10, 2010, 12:29:28 PM

Piling every proof-of-work quorum system in the world into one dataset doesn't scale.

Bitcoin and BitDNS can be used separately. Users shouldn't have to download all of both to use one or the other. BitDNS users may not want to download everything the next several unrelated networks decide to pile in either.

The networks need to have separate fates. BitDNS users might be completely liberal about adding any large data features since relatively few domain registrars are needed, while Bitcoin users might get increasingly tyrannical about limiting the size of the chain so it's easy for lots of users and small devices.

Fears about securely buying domains with Bitcoins are a red herring. It's easy to trade Bitcoins for other non-repudiable commodities.

If you're still worried about it, it's cryptographically possible to make a risk free trade. The two parties would set up transactions on both sides such that when they both sign the transactions, the second signer's signature triggers the release of both. The second signer can't release one without releasing the other.

marcus_of_augustus

legendary

Activity: 3920

Merit: 2349

Eadem mutata resurgo

Quote from: gmaxwell on December 06, 2015, 05:58:32 PM

Tehehe: https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/3vpb0u/think_bitcoin_20_is_a_good_idea_had_dreams_of/

(I await the wall of [deleted] when people start realizing how embarrassing their comments are...)

... that thread is an eye-opener. Who knew the disconnect in understandings is that large?

TeamAgar

newbie

Activity: 13

Merit: 0

Interesting outcome! I didn't expect it to go this way.

gmaxwell

staff

Activity: 4284

Merit: 8808

Tehehe: https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/3vpb0u/think_bitcoin_20_is_a_good_idea_had_dreams_of/

(I await the wall of [deleted] when people start realizing how embarrassing their comments are...)

Zarathustra

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Activity: 1162

Merit: 1004

Quote from: muyuu on December 05, 2015, 12:41:29 PM

Settlements are a reality.

Yes:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.13141249

brg444

hero member

Activity: 644

Merit: 504

Bitcoin replaces central, not commercial, banks

Poor Justus, dude has totally lost his mind

muyuu

donator

Activity: 980

Merit: 1000

Settlements are a reality.

Zarathustra

legendary

Activity: 1162

Merit: 1004

Quote from: Cconvert2G36 on December 04, 2015, 08:35:01 PM

Quote from: danielW on December 04, 2015, 08:18:20 PM

But please do not try to highjack Satoshi as pro XT when we have no idea what his position would be.

I didn't get the impression that he was trying to paint satoshi as pro XT. The quotes showing satoshi as "anti 1MB4EVA" are plain for anyone to see, but pro XT?... not so much.

Exactly, and the complete opposite of that settlement fantasies that the small blockers celebrate. Micropayments.

"Go through the old Bitcointalk threads from 2012 and 2013 sometime and look at how many of the anti-large block concern trolls also posted in the altcoin section." justusranvier

https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/3vfsxz/zane_tackett_the_director_of_community_and/

Some of those trolls even present their altcoins in their user signature.

iCEBREAKER

legendary

Activity: 2156

Merit: 1072

Crypto is the separation of Power and State.

Quote from: ArticMine on December 05, 2015, 12:09:11 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

BIP 101 would have blocksize hitting 1 GB in the year 2030. Then it would continue to double each year until it hits 8 GB in 2036.

1 GB blocksize = ~4000 transactions per second

8 GB blocksize = ~32000 transactions per second

Visa & Mastercard transactions hit daily peaks of 4000 to 8000 transactions per second

Is going all the way up to 8 GB too much? Why not stop at 2 GB = ~8000 transactions per second?

... because 8 GB after an increase from 1 MB "should be enough for everyone" just as 640 KB (RAM) after an increase from 80 B (punched card) "should be enough for everyone" http://www.computerworld.com/article/2534312/operating-systems/the--640k--quote-won-t-go-away----but-did-gates-really-say-it-.html

Please stop crudely reasoning about Bitcoin in terms of unrelated systems such as Diner's Club and MS DOS. It's a distraction at best and misleading at worst.

Bitcoin is a unique, unprecedented system, with its own unique, unprecedented requirement to be 'above the law.'

My first PC had 256k RAM and no hard drive. Its desktop GUI booted off a floppy (good job Tandy!) so I appreciate the elegance of doing more with less (also thanks to 4k and 64k demos!)

I've seen Moore's observation in action my entire life, and I'm 100% entirely unconvinced it justifies endangering/destroying Bitcoin's diverse/diffuse/defensible/resilient network.

Bloat makes everything centralized, shitty, and anti-consumer. That's how we got to Windows 10: Panopticon Edition. Tongue

Topic: Bitcoin XT - Officially #REKT (also goes for BIP101 fraud) - page 47. (Read 378992 times)