Topic: [BitFunder] Ukyo.Loan - Paying 0.05% daily. - page 3. (Read 74727 times)

hey there! dont be so negative. its entirely possible a random person might decide to pay 1000bitcoins even though he has seen what happens when he doesnt pay for 9+ months (nothing happens)

we need to think positive! maybe jon can team up with kyle to give head to truckers.
how many times does $20 go into $6 million ? that is alot of cold sore medication!

Nonsense.  Let's explore the alternative lines of bullshit:

1. Jon claims that the coin is there, but "unavailable."  The court would explicate the meaning of that mysterious word, letting you find out WHY and FOR HOW LONG.  Absolutely no reason for any form of bankruptcy.

2.  If the coin is gone, what difference does it make if the entity known as WeEx files for bankruptcy?

3.  WeEx is an Australian-registered company, if I remember correctly.  Not sure about Australian law re. bankruptcy, but in US, only chapter 7 is straightforward liquidation.  The creditor would also have to petition for it.  It is not automatic, and it is not "the law."  

4.  The Australian registration will be examined, laughed at, and promptly deposited into recycling bin, so it may, some day, become useful.  Unless there's a more credible registration, there is no corporate entity to seek bankruptcy protection, only teh natural person, Jon.

5.  In the alternative, even if the business registration holds up, it offers no protection, since WeEx was not registered as a money transmitter.

TL;DR: I hope you're fronting for Jon, 'coz it hurts to think that people could be so easily conned.

Im not really sure how its in the US now. In germany some years ago the possibility to go bankrupt as a person was added. Simply because it doesnt make sense that someone lives for the rest of his life under the bear of debts that he sometimes never can pay back. So he now has a hard time for one or two years and then he can start over. The risk is then more on the side of the creditor. Maybe thats a reason they are very cautious to give loans.

But its similar here that parents get a loan to help their kids build their house. But its nowhere near a few million usd. Though such a loan is different. A fresh family starting is a parents wish for a good start. Doing the same only to let the money flow to some random internet people has not much appeal. I mean they would need to pay back the debt in the meanwhile and hope to get it back from ukyo. But still they would have to pay first. And have the chance having to pay it back in full. Or even lose the house when they cant pay anymore for some reason. If i would be ukyo i would never ever ask my relatives to take such a risk for me.

I only say it would be a huge step by relatives and i doubt they were happy to step into such thing...


Its no threat... its common sense. If the coins arent there and you sue weex then weex HAS to go bankrupt by law. As long as you dont sue weex the company can exist and the chances to get the coins back exist...

For many young people for example it can be problematic to get a loan for buying there first house or appartment, its very common here in Sweden that parents have to step in as security on a loan there kids take to get there house when we talk about slightly larger loans in a few hundred thoused to a few million usd equivalent, the banks may not accept just the house and the incomes from the younger person as security as houseprices can go down and future incomes may be uncertain.
On the other hand people can get big loans in blanco or at the very least with for example a house as security if they have a long and good credit record and have incomes that is good, maby its due to better pay back rates and the fact that its easier for banks to garantee that they get there money back here one way or another if something would go wrong, as people cant just declaire bancrupcy and think they can walk away from there depts here, it may be possible under very extreme conditions nowadays to do so after many years if its totally impossible for the person to work there dept down, but it wasent that long ago that it was impossible for someone to even go that route and have depts written down in such way.

You know what else is plain stupid?  Expecting restitution from a d00d who threatens to declare bankruptcy when asked to repay the money he owes you.

mgio you are the biggest creditor in ukyo loan, there is 36 lender that owns 1000(10 btc+) or more shares in Ukyo loan,  ukyo himself is one of them(7695 shares) and i wouldent be suppriced if Graet is another that has over 1000 shares in ukyo loan.
If you include weexchange i think danny from NEE and BEE mentioned something like 1400 btc lost in the weexchange problem and ukyo has mentioned he was the one that lost most coins, so he should be an even bigger part of the around 6300 btc number from weexchange, so Ukyo himself is at over 1400 btc lost, or maby it should be called currently/temporary missing coins.

So you compare me to someone that found a hyip the first time.  I guess your world is just black and white.


Ukyo loan and weex are two different things. Sueing for ukyo loan would be pretty easy because you would need to sue him personally and you would be successfull most probably. The question would be the outcome of it. Chances are you win but get practically nothing.

A different thing is weex. I hope no one tries to sue weex now. Besides the slim chances of winning and getting something back... if the bankruptcy of weex company really means my chances to get my original coins back vanish... im not sure what i do with this "smart person". Of course all on the assumption ukyo told the truth. The problem seems to be... once we know what happened... either the coins are back or the coins cant never be retrieved. And the chances for the original coins look not so bad... only time is needed.

I didnt lose as much coins as you but like i wrote, i once let my lawyer sent him and graet a letter demanding informations. After that i got some longer talks on irc so i at least could get a feeling about what happens.


At least in my country the banks are very very cautious if they would get their money back. They would never give out a million usd without giving security in exchange. So the family would have to risk their houses or similar things. I never could imagine that someone would do this without pressure. If one gets indebted then its his fault and he has to take responsibility. Especially its not a problem when you can go bankrupt personally. Then the family would be plain stupid to put money into it.

Well i guess rules is different in different countrys, if he had lived in some countrys he would have ended up having to pay for the rest of his life if he had depts he couldent pay. Around a million usd isent that mush, many people can get loans for such amount with or without security in many countrys around the world, i dont know exactly how ukyos econimical situation is, maby hes not in the possition to get such relatively large loan. and the family part that was just mean as they could go in and help securing his loan if the bank wouldent allow him a big enouth loan without extra security in the form of people that would be legally bound to cover up for him if he cant fully pay the loan to the bank back alone.

mgio,

I would like to join a lawsuit ASAP. Ukyo owes me 15 BTC.

I suggest anyone else who's interested to join a lawsuit, please reply with a short message, and mention how many bitcoins you lost.

 I see no reason to wait any longer.

We should act fast as people are probably loosing interest.

I'll be happy to assist in the administration; I don't have any legal experience, and probably don't have the credibility to handle money, but I'll be happy to help to in every other aspect that I can.

Cheers!

Ukyo has made a lot of promises. I've talked to him here and there about his plans for the ukyo.loan funds.

Like others, he has told me he is working on a big project but I know even less about it that other posters here seem to.

He has said he would be posting here soon with a status update. I can understand why he avoids these boards, but we, as creditors, need something.

The big question is how long are we willing to wait?

At some point his biggest creditors are going to sue him forcing him to pay up what he can and declare bankruptcy to get rid of the rest.

I hope it doesn't come to that, but it really is a question of how patient are we willing to be.

Does ukyo really have a big project that will enable him to pay off the debt by the end of the year (as he has claimed) or is he simply living off of all our bitcoins?

Personally, I think we deserve more information from him. I have had an awful hard time contacting him recently and have a lawyer on retainer if it seems like he has abandoned us. I am trying to give him the benefit of the doubt but I am about to start the legal process in the meantime as he his lack of communication is leaving me no other choice.

FWIW, ukyo owes me >250 btc presently. I might be his biggest creditor. I'm not entirely sure.

And this is how Bitcoin became both a nursery for budding con artists and a rest home for over-the-hill scams.
No matter how pathetic a con, no matter how laughably inept the execution, no mater how long ago it got burnt down IRL--the local wizards of finance will surely "invest."

Typical example from "Cryptostocks Project Review" thread, posted by a typical Bitcoin investor:

Yeah, you guessed it, the "great traders" [predictably] vanished with the coin, the "shares" are worthless.
Some d00d going by SamboNZ, who pimped this "investment" and claimed to have full dox on the issuer, finally posts a blurry ID with with a sorrowful

SebastianJu, SamboNZ--interchangeable.  Every con has them--either in on scam. or just rock-stupid rubes who shouldn't be handling sharp objects, much less vouching for issuers and handing out financial and legal advice.

Fair enough.

I dont know what happened. I only had a lot of conversation with ukyo so i could make my own image of whats going on.

Of course i know a little bit more about what he does now since i dont post the chatlogs nor tell details because i promised not to do so. Ill honor this.

Please feel free to do the same to get your own image.


There are other explainations what could have happened so that ukyo couldnt change it nor avoid it. And as far as i wrote with ukyo he is doing all he can to get all back. And i wait because i believe thats the best choice now. You only dont understand it because you think hes a scammer.

> Even in the best case scenario where something truly unexpected/unexplainable/unsolvable happened, why on earth would anyone have faith that a guy who has been silent for months will be able ot make up the entire debt?

* I know he works on projects
* I wrote with him and was able to get a feeling about how things go
* The silence is because
** it could lower the chance to get weex coins back
** speaking without a success only means shitstorm
* i dont have another choice. Simple business decision.

I lost coins in weex but i dont think the issue is of some kind that could pierce the corporate veil. On top... if sued it could lead to all hopes for weex coins are gone. If he has to pay from private belongings it might even mean he cant work the coins back. So sueing simply sounds like a stupid business decision. If there were no chance anymore then it wouldnt make sense to hope and i would sue him only to get him fined.

I think your "believes" of what happened, that he has the coins or what will happen if sued are on very thin feets. Nothing i would set on. So think what you want about me, i believe thats the best choice for the moment.

Where is the hint that he doesn't have the coins? I don't care if you sue or not, but i have no idea why you or anyone else would trust this guy after what he's done. He either lost are stole a shitload of coins, and no one did or is going to do anything about it. Why? Even in the best case scenario where something truly unexpected/unexplainable/unsolvable happened, why on earth would anyone have faith that a guy who has been silent for months will be able ot make up the entire debt?

And if you don't want to go after him for piercing the corporate veil, that's fine, but I still think peiople owed money should look into it. Again, not a lawyer, but to this layperson I see a big difference between a ceo "investing" in a "company" (especially one that's dead) and a ceo using personal funds to pay corporate debts. Good luck waiting for the magic to happen.

Maybe youre right IPO Magic. Weex didnt transfer coins from or to bitfunder since bitfunder never handled coins really but weex transferred coins from one owner to another. Though not storing the real infos of the persons to protect against money laundering is only a thing he would have to pay a fine for. I dont see that this is enough to lose the bankruptcy protection. The contracts between the parttaking parties were real even without license.

Its a bit strange that everyone happily jumps into unregistered ventures but when it goes wrong he claims it was illegal from the start. While everyone knew it before. Judging from that practically no bitcoin business would be legal.

Im not defending ukyo. I only do what i think has the biggest chance for me to get my coins back. I know many people cant think clear anymore when it comes to that point. Im not like that. So go ahead and think what you want of me. Its only a business decision based on the things i know. I wont sue if i dont see a chance that it will have a nice result. I prefer to wait if he can sort things out. Of course if he would vanish and nothing moves anymore i would sue him instantly. Since then it wouldnt look like he works on things anymore and all would most probably be lost. I would sue him just for justice then.

So see it as admiration but i see that you put emotions into business decision. Something thats very much wrong and most users that are longer in bitcoin community had to learn the hard way. Im one of them.

Phildo... The CEO of a company can invest coins into his own company, even to pay back debts. But that doesnt make him liable to do so. Only if he promised to do something then it could be a contract. But the contract cant be filled anymore because the shares were stolen.

You only say i should sue because for some reason you believe he has the missing coins. I dont know how to judge this. Is this the hope of a desperate that prefer to believe in a good vision of reality? Wheres your hint that he still has the coins? And even when he really would be a scammer... dont you think he could be smart enough to have the coins hidden long ago? Maybe even so that it looks like stolen and no one can prove otherwise?
So i think your delusional. Please believe what you want but i dont act on such a thin hope. The hope on the other side is bigger since i saw he works on things.

But like i said... i never understood the guys that didnt sue pirateat40 when it was clear that it was a scam. I thought its plain stupid. And i sue the labcoin scammer because its clear its a scam. And i would sue ukyo when its clear its a scam. But its not clear. It looks to me the other way. So again... act on the believe that everything is how you wish it to be but i dont think thats an unemotional decision.

If Ukyo the person wanted to sell his private assets to pay back the debts of the company, he's going to have a hard time saying that Ukyo the person isn't responsible for the company's debts, so you should sue ukyo the person for his personal debts and for the company's debts. But this is bitcoin, so no one will do anything but watch ukyo live off of your coins and string you guys along forever.

Lol, "kind of wallet"?  Weex was an unlicensed money transmitter, integral to the operation of Bitfunder.
This "kind of wallet" also ran afoul of pretty much every AML/KYC regulation.  Again, neither the exchange nor the "kind of wallet" are eligible for bankruptcy protection.  

Finally, though I admire marvel at your canine devotion to Jon, at the same time I can't shake the feeling such loyalty to the man who unsmilingly assrapes you is somehow, a bit... wrong.  Let's just say I now know just how caseworkers dealing with battered wives must feel.

Yes, he wanted to sell his shares to pay back part of his debts. Though ken slaughter stole the shares only to make all the coins coming from it worthless at the end.

If ukyo wanted to pay it back this way doesnt make a legal way to sue ukyo directly because the ceo of a company can pay with his private belongings but that doesnt make a right for others to be paid by his other private belongings.


bitfunder was the exchange. Weex was a kind of wallet and weex is the company that lost coins. But even when this wouldnt be the case... it depends on what happened with the coins. He didnt sell shares for a company he owns. He only had a wallet that lost coins and an unregulated exchange. So what will you charge him that could make him personally viable? Lets say the coins vanished because they were stolen. I dont see how you could justify that he personally had to pay for it. Not to speak about if he could do it at all.

An unregistered exchange is not a scam in itself, but by virtue of being illegal it is not afforded the protection of teh corporate veil.  It can not enjoy bankruptcy protection any more than Dimebag Pedro could.  Again, see Piercing the corporate veil.