Appears they are not selling to well.
Were initially limit 1, now its limit 5.
Bitmain model is:
1) develop ASIC,
2) mine until hitting profit target
3) sell old miners to public
Repeat.
As one of the few ASIC mfgs still around it seems to be quite a successful model. They also made more rev/profit than NVIDIA this year and are buying up capacity from TSMC for manufacturing. As a company they are hitting all the right notes.
As for us miners, we basically get scraps after they've eaten the main course.
With the crypto craze seemingly over, all the casual day traders are leaving and the institutional investors are starting to enter. Volatility is decreasing and once we hit the bottom should be a gradual build up.
Topic: Bitmain E3 Ethash Miner ASIC (Shipping:16-31 July. $800 USD) - page 23. (Read 16420 times)
With current difficulty, this Bitmain Garbage can only mine for a round $4 a day. Imagine all the batches are come a live and then difficulty sky rocketed way higher.
Both this ASIC miner and GPU have to say good bye to ETH.
Btw, are you sure that this is the best Bitmain can do? I somehow have intuition that they have more powerful hashing board to mine ETH under their wrap still. Way more powerful that this garbage.
Both this ASIC miner and GPU have to say good bye to ETH.
Btw, are you sure that this is the best Bitmain can do? I somehow have intuition that they have more powerful hashing board to mine ETH under their wrap still. Way more powerful that this garbage.
This garbage has officially killed ETH gpu mining for now. Until ETh dev comes up with something or AMD or Nvidia develops a new gpu specifically designed for mining.
This garbage is still very low cost and very scalable. Good for mining farms. So it will increase difficulty on all the coins as big gpu farms will switch coins.
This wont kill eth mining anytime soon. These are not A3's/D3's etc. Anyone worried about these has no sense of the magnitude of Ethereum's current hashrate.
Its currently at 270 TERAHASHES. Thats NINE MILLION 570's/580's
In order to double the hashrate, bitmain would have to make and sell 1.5 MILLION E3's. At most these batches have 10-20 thousand units, which wont even make a dent in the hashrate. To put things in perspective, Litecoin's entire hashrate is made up of a couple hundred thousand L3+'s and some of that hashrate is shared by innosilicon and BW.
The only reason A3's and D3's killed GPU mining is because they were orders of magnitude faster and more efficient than the GPUs they replaced. E3's are exactly the same speed and efficiency as GPUs, they only advantage they have is that they cost less than current GPUs, and Bitmain does not have to be at the mercy of getting GPU packages from AMD/NVIDIA( and thats about the only advantage an ethereum ASIC can have, maybe slightly higher effenciey if they go full custom cores which they wont since eth will go POS before then).
Lets all calm down
This must be bitmain's smokescreen, for Vitalik Buterin, to fool him into thinking they don't have the F3 1.5 g/h miners, since bitmain announced they were making these e3's last year.
Bitmain didn't announce the E3 last year, they announced 2 GPU-based rigs (G1 and G2 as I recall) last year.
The alleged F3 is still a "one video as the only source of information" rumor.
That video is VERY uninformative about any hard facts, VERY short, and it's entirely likely it wasn't about an ethash miner anyway even if the miner pictured DOES actually exist.
Videos are EASY to manipulate - we've seen "fake" ones too often in this industry before after all.
(Bitmain: professional evil....professionally done...we do evil well!) (tm: Bitmain)
Bitmain looks like an American company where only money really matters, hard to say it's Chinese. I wonder where is the socialism and equality. That jihan guy maybe spent most of his life with evil american manufactures. Learnt from them.
I think the E3 uses 16 x BM1680 Neuralprcessing Chips and one Asic or FPGA for the controlling.
If the E3 has 6 cards, I must correct myself:6 cards with 2 x BM1680 + 1 FPGA or ASIC each
That´s 12 x BM1680 + 6 x FPGA or ASIC.
Or 18 x BM1680 and one Asic or FPGA for the controlling, if Bitmain connect the BM1680 with each other.
Even Bitmain sell a card with 1 x BM1680 and FPGA since January. They announced a card with 2 x BM1680 and FPGA.
Why are people even talking about the Bitmain AI chip and this thing?
That chip is optimized for FLOATING POINT operations, like any AI chip - it is NOT going to process INTEGER operations very well like mining requires, NOR is it going to be efficient at doing so.
The BM 1680 is NOT A MINING CHIP and is not going to offer decent performance per $ or watt since the bulk of the chip would go to waste AND WASTE SOME POWER if someone tried to mine on it.
It seems like these new E3 can be upgraded once ETH will fork and still mine it. I heard this from "insiders"..
Can you provide more information? Is it using and FPGA versus ASIC? Is it really GPU cores inside?
How exactly could they upgrade it after the fact?
If you look at their main site they have AI research chip, could be that the chips in E3 are modified version of these chips. Also they promise better speed when the units start to ship, firmware upgrade???
This is just typical Bitmain smoke and mirrors. They cannot be trusted for anything. By the time they ship I hope all the ETH coins have forked to a totally new algo and make this trash worthless!!!
won't matter to Bitmain these are PRE-ORDERS for what end of July 2018 was it? So you see, they have your coin...it forks and ETH goes POS coin and Bitmain still wins!
(Bitmain: professional evil....professionally done...we do evil well!) (tm: Bitmain)
At this price that's the dead of GPU miners. Now cost only 1/3 and have same hashrate.
Lucky I just sold all of my GPU rigs after 3 months used still profitable. lol
Lucky I just sold all of my GPU rigs after 3 months used still profitable. lol
You have time util August when bitmain will deliver first batch...
It seems like these new E3 can be upgraded once ETH will fork and still mine it. I heard this from "insiders"..
Can you provide more information? Is it using and FPGA versus ASIC? Is it really GPU cores inside?
How exactly could they upgrade it after the fact?
If you look at their main site they have AI research chip, could be that the chips in E3 are modified version of these chips. Also they promise better speed when the units start to ship, firmware upgrade???
This is just typical Bitmain smoke and mirrors. They cannot be trusted for anything. By the time they ship I hope all the ETH coins have forked to a totally new algo and make this trash worthless!!!
I think the E3 uses 16 x BM1680 Neuralprcessing Chips and one Asic or FPGA for the controlling.
If the E3 has 6 cards, I must correct myself:6 cards with 2 x BM1680 + 1 FPGA or ASIC each
That´s 12 x BM1680 + 6 x FPGA or ASIC.
Or 18 x BM1680 and one Asic or FPGA for the controlling, if Bitmain connect the BM1680 with each other.
Even Bitmain sell a card with 1 x BM1680 and FPGA since January. They announced a card with 2 x BM1680 and FPGA.
Lets make some more speculation judging from the photos this thing have at least 6 boards in it. According to the original rumor 3 chips per board . Lets take a look at the datasheet of their AI chip. https://archive.sophon.ai/sophon-prod/drive/BM1680_Datasheet%20V1.0.pdf , it states 41W under full load. If there are 18 chips in E3 miner. that makes 738W thats very close to 800W, This year will be interesting
Horrible ROI for a miner thats months away from release.
180 mh/s is barely 170$ a month. By the time they release it if prices dont go up that miner will be worthless. But yeah GPU mining is dead thats the cost of 2 rx 580
The thing is everyone is comparing it to the current (highly inflated) price of GPUs. If it wasn't for the run-up in GPU prices because something like this wasn't available last year those RX580's would probably be going for $150 each by now, so this would actually be more like the cost of 5 of them.
Sure you have the mobo and other stuff to add to the price, but then again that GPU based rig is more flexible in that it can mine other alogs, including new ones that may come out. Also, as others have pointed out, the GPU rig can be parted out and resold if need be, whereas the ASIC is just a paperweight.
So long-term I think this is actually great news, as it isn't quite the GPU killer everyone had feared. It beats out GPU rigs on price alone, but as I stated only because GPU prices are so over inflated right now. Once the E3 hits the market GPU prices will come back down to normal and probably become bargains. At that point I expect you can put together a 6x RX580 rig for closer to $1,100 by then, so it will be a even match considering the GPU rig will have other uses and resale value so worth the extra $300.
is everyone can confirm with me this will only be limited to ethash? if its actual inside is normal gpu, we cannot simply tweak it for other algo?
It seems like these new E3 can be upgraded once ETH will fork and still mine it. I heard this from "insiders"..
Can you provide more information? Is it using and FPGA versus ASIC? Is it really GPU cores inside?
How exactly could they upgrade it after the fact?
I've heard this rumor as well. FGPA + GPU cores is what's rumored, which (given the size) may be the case. If it's just a bunch of DDR3, then chances are it'll be worthless after a decision is made to brick them on Friday (because - let's be real, it will fork).
Problem is, FPGAs aren't always cheap. So unless Shitmain came up with something proprietary, I would consider this to be a rumor.
It seems like these new E3 can be upgraded once ETH will fork and still mine it. I heard this from "insiders"..
Can you provide more information? Is it using and FPGA versus ASIC? Is it really GPU cores inside?
How exactly could they upgrade it after the fact?
If you look at their main site they have AI research chip, could be that the chips in E3 are modified version of these chips. Also they promise better speed when the units start to ship, firmware upgrade???
It seems like these new E3 can be upgraded once ETH will fork and still mine it. I heard this from "insiders"..
Can you provide more information? Is it using and FPGA versus ASIC? Is it really GPU cores inside?
How exactly could they upgrade it after the fact?
https://gyazo.com/9a8465b6b6cf34ad47f0a44e9f8d5243
I can also confirm the E3 is still up for purchase as of 4:18PM EST. Seems like the E3 has been going in and out of stock recently for whatever reason. They likely don't have many left, or Bitmain are increasing available stock for E3 on their website.
I can also confirm the E3 is still up for purchase as of 4:18PM EST. Seems like the E3 has been going in and out of stock recently for whatever reason. They likely don't have many left, or Bitmain are increasing available stock for E3 on their website.
Debating getting one ...but then again my fuzzy math (a bit over) 50% to IRS anyway and 25% equip deduction in real cash applied to this years taxes (which I will have more
then enough for)
the risk is $225 above electric per unit....and they make what $4 a day maybe...sheesh..this is depressing..
so again my risk with my 'usual' set aside for the tax man... of 50% to the IRS and the state tax man (again a bit high with a 'cush') ..and that 25% equipment deduction
tempting price for a 'doorstop'...at again my tax angles and equip depreciation and of course the fact I'm mining more than a 2 dozen asic's (of many flavors)
as to newbies WITHOUT any large mining (my boat) or etc....my risk is like (with shipping/fees/etc) about 3 out of 4 it WILL work...your risk with REAL from the Job Income
and NO mining income to offset and IF you make enough for the 25% off taxes paid...is around 3 out of 4 of NOT working out...
also, this will only work for me at a certain level of mining income (which this year I've passed already...and of course crypto dumps and/for my capital gains etc)...
IF mining goes bye bye...my angles go away too...(back to hobby mining and heating the basement next winter)
thus I"M NOT SURE if it is worth getting for me!!...so only spend what you can afford....and keep that in mind when you read my posts on equipment
you reach a certain level of equipment and 'being stupid' has fewer consequences...then when I had 2 ASIC's in the basement...
anyway, still on the fence...likely they will be sold out by the time I get over pondering this...
stalling as a strategy can also be considered a 'wise' long-term strategy....but damn, hedging on what the heck prices for crypto are going to be ...is daunting...lately
brad
I'm glad people aren't rushing headfirst into buying miners anymore, though, which could explain why these aren't selling out instantly like most miners were previously before crypto took a temporary pluge. Nice to see people are actually doing some research on profitability now as the figures don't look too great, especially for a pre-order that will take many months to arrive. Buying this is just a gamble more than anything.
Some numbers:
Assume we both have the same power cost.
380 cards person) 12 ASUS 380 cards, 200 Mh/s, 1650W. Power= 0.10 USD As of today from WTM per day: $6 revenue, $2 profit. Paid off
E3 person) Say an E3 is $800 plus say $200 for a power supply and everything else, so $1000: $5.40 revenue, $3.45 profit
For this back-of-the-envelope figuring, assume the difficulty is fixed. E3 person will take about 290 days to payoff the miner. After 290 days the 380 cards are ahead by $580.
If the numbers are correct, it will take another 400 days till the E3 surpasses the 380 setup in profit.
So if the eth difficulty increases, it will drive out the very old stuff and extend the time it takes to for the E3 to breakeven. People who have been mining ETH for a long time have a substantial advantage, because their rigs cost has been partially or all captured. New miners are essentially betting that the difficulty will go down or the price of eth goes up.
Another point is the residual value. At the end of the year working 380's might be worth $50 + the SSD say $50 + the Win Pro 10 copy of windows say $50 + two PS. So the 380 rigs have a residual value of around of say $800 - $1000 and an Ebay net of around $500.
Assume we both have the same power cost.
380 cards person) 12 ASUS 380 cards, 200 Mh/s, 1650W. Power= 0.10 USD As of today from WTM per day: $6 revenue, $2 profit. Paid off
E3 person) Say an E3 is $800 plus say $200 for a power supply and everything else, so $1000: $5.40 revenue, $3.45 profit
For this back-of-the-envelope figuring, assume the difficulty is fixed. E3 person will take about 290 days to payoff the miner. After 290 days the 380 cards are ahead by $580.
If the numbers are correct, it will take another 400 days till the E3 surpasses the 380 setup in profit.
So if the eth difficulty increases, it will drive out the very old stuff and extend the time it takes to for the E3 to breakeven. People who have been mining ETH for a long time have a substantial advantage, because their rigs cost has been partially or all captured. New miners are essentially betting that the difficulty will go down or the price of eth goes up.
Another point is the residual value. At the end of the year working 380's might be worth $50 + the SSD say $50 + the Win Pro 10 copy of windows say $50 + two PS. So the 380 rigs have a residual value of around of say $800 - $1000 and an Ebay net of around $500.
in july this thing will be mining 5 times less eth than now hehe, nvidia volta is coming soon june/july.
This must be bitmain's smokescreen, for Vitalik Buterin, to fool him into thinking they don't have the F3 1.5 g/h miners, since bitmain announced they were making these e3's last year. This in my mind almost guarantee's that bitmain is mining with the F3's and selling these to clear out there inventory. Good luck with anyone buying these 1 year old miners. Bitmain mines with there top gear and then sells off the old gear. As in the case of the Bitmain selling
off all there s9's, meanwhile every one wonders why there s9's have so many problems a few months after they get them. I'm pretty sure if bitmain is a 3 billion dollar company they are mining with the 12nm miners already on bitcoin.
off all there s9's, meanwhile every one wonders why there s9's have so many problems a few months after they get them. I'm pretty sure if bitmain is a 3 billion dollar company they are mining with the 12nm miners already on bitcoin.
I am surprised this isnt sold out. Have people finally understood the risks of mining and the fear of difficulty rising and the overcapacity in mining?
I warned about this long ago https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.28443347 in January 2018 that it isnt sustainable for so much mining equipment capacity to be produced. This much equipment is being produced on the assumption price of coins will keep skyrocketing to support the manufacturing of so much equipment. It was not sustainable. I got flamed instead and the thread is locked now.
So, more people now understand that crypto isnt a magic lamp that can give out an unlimited amount of money? There are only so many coins released over a period of time, thus, only so much can be earned.
I still see some posts saying GPU mining will never die. Yep, it wont die but it is gonna go down to shiat and u probably wont be breaking even with a recent GPU rig. U could possible break even with this asic though. Depends.
I warned about this long ago https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.28443347 in January 2018 that it isnt sustainable for so much mining equipment capacity to be produced. This much equipment is being produced on the assumption price of coins will keep skyrocketing to support the manufacturing of so much equipment. It was not sustainable. I got flamed instead and the thread is locked now.
So, more people now understand that crypto isnt a magic lamp that can give out an unlimited amount of money? There are only so many coins released over a period of time, thus, only so much can be earned.
I still see some posts saying GPU mining will never die. Yep, it wont die but it is gonna go down to shiat and u probably wont be breaking even with a recent GPU rig. U could possible break even with this asic though. Depends.
With current difficulty, this Bitmain Garbage can only mine for a round $4 a day. Imagine all the batches are come a live and then difficulty sky rocketed way higher.
Both this ASIC miner and GPU have to say good bye to ETH.
Btw, are you sure that this is the best Bitmain can do? I somehow have intuition that they have more powerful hashing board to mine ETH under their wrap still. Way more powerful that this garbage.
Both this ASIC miner and GPU have to say good bye to ETH.
Btw, are you sure that this is the best Bitmain can do? I somehow have intuition that they have more powerful hashing board to mine ETH under their wrap still. Way more powerful that this garbage.
This garbage has officially killed ETH gpu mining for now. Until ETh dev comes up with something or AMD or Nvidia develops a new gpu specifically designed for mining.
This garbage is still very low cost and very scalable. Good for mining farms. So it will increase difficulty on all the coins as big gpu farms will switch coins.
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