Topic: Bitmain's Released Antminer S9, World's First 16nm Miner Ready to Order - page 250. (Read 531298 times)

dang...so your saying the temps listed arent really the temps of the boards and chips potentially?? hmm i wonder if dipshit will reply to this awesome piece of info and somehow spin it to where im makin up lies lol. this in another user saying pushing temps like you all seem to be doin isnt safe. in fact this guy capitalized his claim. i hope people listen....i really do. ik i wont be pushin my miners. if one dies it was meant to be but i havent had a single miner die in all the years i have been doin this nor have i had a single gpu overheat and burn up because i dont redline them.

but if it is an average temp for the chips on each board that means the chips furthest away from the intake are going to be hotter than the ones closer to the intake fan. even with the fan on the other end sucking air out this cant be avoided....hot air will never cool better than cold air so the chips at the end are probably running hotter than all the other chips and since you dont know the numbers for those chips running the average temps hotter than the numbers i listed will prob push those chips over the so called temp limits (which bitmain hasnt said was a limit only silly kids makin assumtions have said this). so 115 average temps may mean 120-25+ on the end chips.....hmmmm.

sounds like someones butthurt after realizin hes wrong. no need to be so salty kiddo. we all make mistakes. just learn from yours and move on.

too low may not be good, i think avalon did state that their chip best performance is around mid 60's C /

lets hope bmt honors those legit warranty claims, lower the price !!! make it more competitive.

more info on the "normal" operating temps/range from bmt would be a good start.

My guess (hope) is that Chip Temp is the highest reported on the board. Given the simplicity of on-die chip sensing and the space afforded @ 16nm node it would be shear stupidity not to have each report its temperature... Hell, TSMC probably provided that IP block "free" of charge.

To me board level sensors are really only good for an indication of temps any large caps have to live with. For that, since BM claims to use ones rated for >135C, board temps under 70C are perfect and yes lower = better.

As for 'what is safe' for the chips.... Without BM providing a data sheet our only ref stating a MAX chip temp is the one for the BM''84 or '85 chips. Is 120c I believe

Since the s9 manual says to not exceed 115C, fine. Fits with the fact that at the 16nm node the effects of temp on the gate performance in the chips is not to be ignored and sets constraints on the window for allowable temp vs performance. Not to mention how the PCB and solder joints respond to it. However, if anticipated in the chip design, silicon can perform quite well even over 150C.

Is that or anything over 100 maybe 105C 'safe'.... Maybe.
If the temps are very stable, say less than a 5C swing in any 24hr period so the mechanical effects of thermal cycle are minimal. I say -- should be.

S9 has two temp-"board" and "chip" (vs just one for S7, which is "board").
However, I don't know what exactly "chip" means (one individual chip at a certain location, average of all, etc) while in SP20, you can see each chip temp.
So, you are probably right as far as not pushing them to 115C.

 SP20 was a LOT more comfortable at 110C on the chips, but the RockerBox had an ON CHIP temp sensor.
 Most of them DID run for a long time reliably at the "stock" 115c setting.

 Bitmain has never done that with ANY of their chips AFAIK, and "board level" sensors are a TON less reliable for detecting how hot the chips ON the board are actually running.
 That's a VERY GOOD REASON to not even think about pushing Bitmain miner temps.

waste of time with this smart-ass nutz, where's the ignore button ??

looks like he has a superb imagination & assumption of his own.

@biffa, looks a like a defective board, another buddy of mine has the same x's, write to bmt & be polite, they reply pretty fast & did mention that it could be a defective board, was asked to take the board out n place it on another s9 to test it. will update if my buddy hears anything from bmt.

the unit is a 11.85 ths batch & x appeared after running about 2-3 hours. did the usual stuff, swapped psu, data cable, pcie, etc, etc, no go. fw that came with it was jul 11th me thinks, cant recall but defo defective board.

GL with the warranty claims to those out there "EXCEPT" the nutz expert lol.

don't say stupid stuff and i wont have to post to correct you. the s7 and s9 r 2 different miners....so comparing the s7 to the s9 doesnt work. the fact of the matter is if your gonna run miners improperly dont bitch when and if they fail. if your running your miners in rooms that are over 90 degrees ambient and you dont take care of your stuff which is clear that you dont your stuff will fail and i bet we will be hearing your sob story. i hope i see the post so i can throw an i told you so your way. i already told many others not to do this and their miners failed....your next i guess lol.

i also like how you throw out "a bunch of them are still running till today" lol. looks like u had some die on ya haha. its to be expected in those conditions. can you not afford a simple air filter where u run your miners?? god who wants dust caked up in their machines?? i know i dont.

you also didnt listen. i never said they wont run at the temps they mentioned (even though they never said those are the max temps they should run at or thats its safe to run them that high this is your assumption not a fact) i said they wont run at those temps long im sure....and sure enough i was right. if they are dying even you should be able to understand....THEY CANT RUN AT THOSE TEMPS SAFELY.

Mines up, apparently the board lights up but its all xx's

talk too much !

s7 ... early batch 54 chips have been running since day 1, overclocked now after warranty expired in harsh environment with lots of dust & avg ambient temp of 33 deg C till now still running, the temps in the day is around mid 70's nitgh about mid 60's.

bunch of them are still running till today.

i'm not saying to run & push miners, psu, gpu or any other electronic//electrical equipment to them max, but it is able to do so !

so far the s9's for me are doing well, fingers crossed, most of them run around 70C board temp on avg. fan about 65% 4200 rpm ish.

your confusing server psus with desktop psus....in either case the manufacturers of all psu's dont want you running the psu full tilt 24/7. running it at or above the rated wattage all the time is never good for the power supply. also at the wall power isnt the same as what the psu is rated for. if im not mistaken a platinum rated psu has an 89% efficiency at 100% power so if you are drawin 1325w at the wall subtract 11% from that and thats how much of the 1300w your using of the rated wattage. that will still reduce the life of the psu though and the higher you go the more you knock off the psu so those are the facts. its your equipment so you can do what you want but it is dangerous and will end up costing you money. spondoolies and bitmain are 2 completely different companies with 2 very different levels of quality. i doubt bitmain designed their equipment to run in the same way as spondoolies and the board quality is prob different too so to say the s9 can handle 115 degrees c is retarded. im not saying the miner wont run at 100c and above what im saying is it will hurt the machine and going by the posts here what i have said many times now since the s9 was released has been true. there are other factors involved as well such as humidity. these people r running their miners OUTSIDE IN THE SUMMER TIME for christ sake lol.

if you want to think bitmains quality is on par with the quality of spondoolies your more than welcome to do so but many here will say that they dont match up....not even close. and if you want to assume that bitmains miners are of a quality that says they can overlook the 20-25% buffer zone like evga and server PSU's can then its your hardware. i watched people lose s7's and s5's all over the place....i didnt lose a single one and thats because i didnt run mine like they run theirs. if you cut corners dont come bitchin to the forums when your miners die from being improperly used. if i ran them in those same conditions and mine died do u think i would bitch about s9 bein shitty quality and so on?? nope! because im smart enough to know not to beat the hell outta my investment....not if i want it to pay me back that is.

Sorry. I thought it was a long shot.

All of this is just reinforcing that Bitmain is to be avoided. Hopefully the A7 will ship soon (as per the rumors). Even if it's more expensive, it could be a better value if it's higher quality.

my board died in under 10 hours.
my board died with temps never reaching 102c  first test tops out at 101 c and I stopped at under four minutes
I took over 10 screen shots.


the sound level at 22% is very good but it is a little hot with freq 375


I want the sound level that 22% fan setting gives so I dropped freq to 350
So this is close to the practical limit of down clock


setting below is freq 375 and fan of 30% and it is getting louder

freq 400 fan 33%  and the sound would be too loud or loud enough to annoy


freq 404 fan 33% the hash rate and temps moved a bit higher  and of course the sound is too high.  my psu is a 1000 watt plat enermax single rail



freq 406 fan 33% the hash rate  moved up temps are about the same.  This 406 33% setting may be a good for my unit. my psu should hang in until I go to freq 500 ( a guess)


next is 408 setting same 33%  we finally got more heat then I like  97 top temp.


this is a 412 setting and a boost in the fan to 34%  even though I raised fan speed reads the same rpm but hash is up and temps are down.  this may mean rpm gauge on fan is false on 33% setting or 34% setting. this kind of makes testing every freq worth it


here is freq 416 fan at 34% hash rate is almost 9000 but temps went close to 98

Spondoolies SP20 was fine running chips at 115C ALL the time. Spondoolies SP30 also run 1400W PSU at 1440 W or above at the wall just fine for years.
EVGA 1300 can run at above 1300W (1325-1350) at the wall for years. These are just facts.
I don't know how to translate this to S9 prediction, but seems like 100c on the chip should be fine as it is well below 115.

where did bitmain state a max operating temp for the boards and chips?? no where in the manual or in posts have i seen this stated. what they say in the manual is the fan speed must be above 60% to keep board temps below 80 degrees c and to keep chip temps below 115 degrees c.

now it looks to me that you assumed that is the max operating temp but assumptions arent facts. yes it can lead people to believe one thing but at the same time people with proper knowledge of this sort of thing would already know you should never run at the max numbers and ever step closer to the max numbers means a decrease in the life of the unit. a psu that is rated at 1000w should never run at 1000w all the time should it?? nope....it should run 20-25% less then that so around 750-800w depending on the quality of the psu. so if you apply the same to miners and you make the mistake of assuming when reading a document written by someone that probably doesnt speak english well at all then 115 degrees c would mean 20-25% less means the chip temps should be anywhere from 90-92 degrees c to maximize the life of the unit.

so again the numbers above are based on the ASSUMPTION that the max chip temp is 115 degrees c so every step above 92 degrees c means more wear on the components and a higher risk of damage to the miner and a shorter life. im sure the miners can handle 100+ temps like many are doing now but thats short term....they cant handle it for very long which is why people run them hard for a couple of days then BAM they r dead. if you run your GPU's like you want people to run their miners i would hate to buy your used GPU's because you ran them into the dirt. i highly doubt your running them any lower than the max temps provided to you. hell even gpu makers dont want you running their products 24/7 at the max temps....they are considered max for a reason. its to provide a buffer zone in case of sudden spikes. same with power supplies but max all the time is retarded.

Butttt if the miners were in a properly cooled environment they wouldnt have to worry about temps reaching over 100 degrees c. this also doesnt count for folks that just had a failed miner....things fail. theres no way to predict how long a component will last before giving out but the majority of the failures are due to folks using them improperly. Im confident in say that much based on the info being posted here. next time people should listen to us....and i hope my last few posts make people change their minds about garage mining and shed mining smack dab in the middle of summer time. its not me who loses money from broken hardware.

if your going to state a max operating temp you dont state ones that will melt down the miner. You put in the instructions ones that even if it runs 24/7 there is no risk of burning down your house.. and as long as they  are run within those limits its covered by warranty.   Bitmain is a poster child of how not to run a successful long term business.  I suspect they are in it for the short term like most are since noone knows if this will ever take off or not.  Get it while ya can.  Just remember the biggest risk hw wise in the game atm is bitmain and there high failure rate.   im sure happy with my gpu's and when its no longer profitable i can at least sell them for next to cost and/or make one hell of a seti@home;) rig or maybe ill start a password cracking service locally

Best Regards
d57heinz

lol they havent done ne thing to fuck up paypal....the just sent the email out a day or so ago about accepting paypal. as for dealin with bitmain....i have dealt with them since the s1. i have owned every model of their s series miners except for the s3+ i heard about a while back but i havent ever seen 1. i started mining at home to heat my house but moved to much larger mining setups so im pretty sure i have experience with bitmain lol.

im not saying they dont make mistakes but the info i posted above about temps hitting over 100 degrees c and going above that means users dont understand the risks involved with running their miners that hot. sure it can be done and some may last forever at those temps but from the posts i have read in this thread alone im seeing that so many failed and their info many times includes temps that are ridiculously high.

now tell me....can bitmain be at fault for those boards dying when the temps far exceed ones that are reasonable? can they be to blame for users not knowing any better and running them in places like the garage and room where ambient temps push 100 degrees?? now if you have temps like mine and they died i would back you 100% but im seeing most 100+ temps so how can i support those claims? Everyone that mines should know 1 key piece of info......HIGH TEMPS KILL MINERS....period. if people refuse to ignore that or claim ignorance then all i have to say is maybe you should have done a little more research on proper operating conditions. i know for a fact 90-100 degree ambient temps in a garage or shed in the dead of summer with 100% humidity are not even close to being the ideal operating temps....common sense should be settin off alarms in these peoples heads but instead many turn here and bash bitmain about it.

i have had 1 issue with a miner....a batch of s5's i ordered were extremely dirty and covered in that fine black dust that doesnt blow off with compressed air like normal household dust does. it looked more like what comes out of a tailpipe of a car. they got back to me and sent me a new s5 for free without needing me to send anything back. that is the only issue in the years i have used their products.

to everyone that is running them in proper environments and not outside or in cramped rooms that you cant even sit in without sweattin ur ballz off i hope you get your miners repaired but for those that arent i hope u learned from your mistakes and i hope you listen to people like me that posted many times about 100c being too effin hot for any miner. it cost you alot to learn this mistake but hopefully it makes u not wanna repeat it again.

I also expect PayPal will realize quickly there are issues with Bitmain and chargebacks. Right now their most failure-prone product through PayPal will probably be the S7LN PSU, which in my experience are lemons (20% failure/DOA) but maybe they already culled out all the garbage ones by now?

Also, I don't think going after BitmainWarranty (the Colorado-based entity) will do you any good. They're not actually legally associated with Bitmain last I checked, and also do their best to pick up the slack when Bitmain screws over US customers.

Hey numnutz. That is the proper name;).  I no need to fuck it up for bitmain. They are doing a fine job themselves.  I suspect you haven't dealt with bitmain enough to be fed up!

BR

dang....i think the pp comment you made was pretty ignorant. not only did u not buy anything through paypal but when they finally start accepting an easier form of payment you go and try fuckin it up?? but if you send a letter to paypal they will just ignore it...your clearly trying to ruin a reputation of a company before it even gets goin. sure you may have dealth with buying in btc but you havent bought from them with paypal yet so try to not make assumptions before having any real proof.

now i noticed alot of people having issues with their miners fyin but i also noticed the temps of many peoples miners are 100c and above....your cramming huge hasherates into tiny spaces and expect to be able to run these things safely in your garages in the middle of summer?? thats just ballz crazy! here are my temps:

board 1 59/91
board 2 54/84
board 3 54/87

the ac unit for each of my rooms is set to 72 degrees and the frequencies are all set to the stock 550. sure one board per miner is a little hotter but that is because i have a strip of tape going over part of the grill because of the whistling noise which will be removed once the filter material i ordered comes and i can make some filters for my miners. but even with that piece of tape my chip temp on all my miners never goes above 92 degrees and all of my miners have the same sort of numbers temp wise. i would be shuttin my miners off immediately if i saw temps going near 100 degrees and above....they arent made to be running in your shed or garage in the summertime. winter time would be perfect but summertime.....bad idea guys.