Topic: Bitmain's Released Antminer S9, World's First 16nm Miner Ready to Order - page 249. (Read 531298 times)

It has no problem cooling because your 3KW of PSU are burning about 300W of heat in themselves (assuming ~90% efficiency) so the power density is a fair bit less. The heat-generating parts in a PSU are probably also either solid metal or a big beefy silicon rated for 150C max internal temperature, rather than high-speed data paths on the most ornately etched crystal in the world, making the hardware a bit less finicky overall.

But yeah, one of the S9 boards that failed within 2 days in my hosting I don't think ever saw over 90F ambient temps, and were probably between 75F and 85F for most of that time. It also started to hash but died out quickly when the frequency was turned below 300MHz. Kinda strange.

@numnutz!

Well to explain myself.  I run them in a barn. Outside temp wasn't 120. But inside temp of barn was. Ask Phil how hot it is where he runs his miners;)  Possibly higher.  Yes you are correct on the miners and the heat sink.  Can you tell me why bitmain is going backwards with reliability and forwards with efficiency.  Let's make the first ASIC with a great heat sink but we all know that it's not here to stay.  Then let's move to today. New ASIC with most efficient chip and the worst track record.  Kiddos as you put it so kindly must have been who is assembling these.  Cheap pcb cheap heat sinks. Fires burnt boards galore.  Warranty is next to the shit on the bottom of my shoe. And now as a big fuck you they release the antrouter r 4 lmao.   I'm waiting on Avalon to deliver and will continue to buy gpu.  Good day to you.  

EDIT   Lucky for me if you want to push this much further i still own s1 s2 s3 s4 c1's  would you  like me to run them in a closed env to see what the thermal breakdown is.. Think this might just make for a great youtube journey for me.  and some lessons for the community on how the old miner worked so much better!!!  and dont worry ill put enough to equal the same amount of watts.  again you basically explained what i needed to know .  when they burn up in datacenters then how do you expect them to be ran at home?  ill do some digging and see if i can find max temps.. Im really just over this.  

Btw I'm not going anywhere:)

BR


S3+ Specifications:

 

Hash Rate: 453 GH/s±5% with great OC potential
Power Consumption: 355 Watt at the wall
Power Efficiency: 0.78J/GH on wall
Power Supply: 12V DC
Size:  331 mm x 137 mm x 160 mm
Fans: Two 14038 fans mounted on both front and back ends
Operating Temperature: 0 °C to 35 °C
Complied with: FCC / CE
Network Connection: Ethernet

just to let you know heehhe.. look at line 7

S9 Specifications:

1. Hash Rate: 11.85TH/s ±5%

2. Power Consumption: 1172W + 12% (at the wall, with APW3 ,93% efficiency, 25C ambient temp)

3. Power Efficiency: 0.1J/GH + 12%(at the wall, with APW3 93% efficiency, 25°C ambient temp)

4. Rated Voltage: 11.60 ~13.00V

5. Chip quantity per unit: 189x BM1387

6. Dimensions: 350mm(L)*135mm(W)*158mm(H)

7. Cooling: 2x 12038 fan

8. Operating Temperature: 0 °C to 40 °C

9. Network Connection: Ethernet

10. Default Frequency: 550M

and one just has to assume that if you are running in those conditions and as long as the box is checked in the miner for it not to exceed 80c(i know its not stated in manual but 80c is max) then it should be safe to run up to 40c conditions.. And yea i took some risk. but it worked great for me.  .. i didnt quite understand your question of max temp that is why i put the op temps of s3  stating that it at least gave a range it is SAFELY ran in.  anyway.. i dont understand all things and ill be the first to admit it.. But your way of making me understand sure wont work in any classroom environment.  im reasonable but i also wont be fucked around either.

Also can you tell me why i can smash 3kw of psu into a box 1/3 size of s9 and it has no problems whatsoever cooling?  maybe bitmain needs to go back to the drawing board?

Yes, and now they agreed to get them even without discussing with them....and without opening a Ticket. I do not know though thats because of the volumes I buy, I really hope not, since everyone should have the same service level. Secondly, I need to buy more and Avalon is just too slow at the moment.
Still waiting though, but im affriad that I wil need to dish Avalon if they keep putting out miners who demands PI as controller, its a freaking mess to operate a farm with all these PI`s.

Did you try and get warranty repair on your failed S9 board?  Just curious.  Surprised to see you buying more.


I have one board on one miner that occasionally shows x's at stock freq but I have it downclocked and it doesn't happen.  The board in question is clearly problematic, at stock it sometimes only hit about 60% of expected hashrate and never went any higher.  It would take me several reboots to get it to come up higher but even then it wouldn't hit the numbers of the other two boards, and it would pop up occasional x's as mentioned.  When it was doing that the x's would come and go although usually on the same 4 or 5 chips.  So yeah, the whole thing is downclocked and it doesn't happen.

IS the shop down.
I have tried now for days to make a new order of 10 x S9, but at checkout it stops when getting to shipping destination ??
Anyone else having the same problem ?

https://gyazo.com/8e37d262da3d55b6908e9a7497b7e416

one of my S9 is showing 1 X in chips.
Tried rebooting it still showing an X
Hopefully it won't start showing more and more Xes

I'm living on less than one S9 worth of money in a given month, and it's only that much because I have an old credit card and student loans to pay down. Actual living expenses (rent, utilities, groceries) I could probably get by on about half an S9 per month, and that's right here in the US. Depending how and where you live, it's not even hard. I had a neighbor for a while with a wife and baby doing fine on a household income of under $300 per week.

The last miner I bought new was an S3, near the end of their run when prices were like $280. S9 prices would have to be about half where they are now for me to think about buying, and I've probably got cheaper power than most of y'all. And even then I probably wouldn't buy one because Bitmain hasn't done much in a really long time to demonstrate a desire to not actively screw people over.

Money is relative.  I live in NJ in a 375,000 usd home depending on what city in NJ that price can be a small home in really nice town or a medium home in a medium priced town .

Or a pretty big house in a poor town.

You can range in size from  1200 square ft .  To 3750 square foot.

You may even get a big lot for that price say four acres.

Or in some towns a small lot 4000 square ft.

From country #100 downward, average monthly salary is less than $633.
India- $452/mo, China $732, Russia $686. Things cost less in these three, I imagine.
You can survive even in US on this money (if you don't have to pay rent or with very low rent in some areas).
http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Cost-of-living/Average-monthly-disposable-salary/After-tax
Also, the last country has $25, but i don't think that they are necessarily starving. Everything just cost less to much less.

How do you survive? are you homeless?

Never thought you need to spend this much amount of money to mine. Are people here really rich or what,spending this much dime for a machine. My three month salary for one machine  carry on folks.

Definite JA on the switching noise issue. I've brought up the point in several other threads regarding PDN considerations. It's not so much clk speed that hurts as it is circuit current rise/fall times that can cause very localized havoc. For one ref, http://powerelectronics.com/power-electronics-systems/five-things-every-engineer-should-know-about-pdn

Considering that as part of the packaging into an actual chip the dies are mounted to an interposer to connect the outside world, that would be a perfect place for the temp sense diode. Giver the power being handled prolly at worst alumina and preferably with AlN as the interposer substrate, either way if there is point on it to locate the temp diode -- close enough for 'die' temp in my book.

On Bitmain and temp modeling... Probably done, probably pretty basic. Think the best we can hope they do is accelerated life testing at a couple different high to very high temps...

On your homework problem: heh heh heh... Things truly get astounding even for me at the extremes of current physical material science. My current playtoy, er, um, testbed, at work is a Trumpf Ultrafast laser. To cut to the chase, one setting provides 85uJ per 1ps wide pulse firing every 5us. That translates to a peak pulse power of 85MW. Now focus that down to a 25um dia spot and calc the power density in W/sq cm that the target sees (on that one tiny spot) during that 1ps. Ballpark hint: It's in the tera-watts... Good freaking lord.

QC- I had one S7 miner with 575 sticker on top of 550 sticker, i was charged for 575 miner, it worked as 575 for a month or two (barely), then had to be put on 550, where it actually belong. Such corners cutting is typical here. I did not made the fuss because it all averages, in my opinion. i got one other that was better than expected.

In my honest experience to be working for a company that build electronics devices. If the a board failed the QC then they tried it again and it worked, it should never been sold to anyone. You might have a solder issue on the board. (It can be a defective parts or whatever possible)

It might be working cold ... or hot or in between but it doesn't work all the time. You could bend the PCB a bit and it would be working again ... but for how long ? This is bad QC.

When it does happen for us, this is a major issue and we take it seriously has many factors can influence the exact problem. We stop the production if we have to... until we are 100% sure the cause of the issue is fixed.

Anyway this is just my 2 cents

Unfortunately it isn't that simple. There are two issues:

1) lack of calibration. Performing a proper calibration of the internal temperature sensor would be probably prohibitively expensive. Uncalibrated sensor will have good differential accuracy (is the temp higher or lower?) but bad absolute accuracy (is it 100C or 120C?).
2) internal switching noise. The mining chips have super-high levels of internal simultaneous switching noise, beyond what is tolerated by the standard library IP blocks.

Spondoolies tried to work around it by configuring that temperature sensor cell to provide intentionally coarse measurements; IIRC the step was 5C.

The other way to work around those limitations is to use external measurement chip (like LM75) with external sensing diode that is internal to the mining chip. This setup is much less sensitive to the manufacturing process variations.

The determination of true maximum operating temperature would be too time consuming and too expensive. There published values are just very approximate goals that are used as an input to the electromigration models in the CAD software. And again the normal operating points of the mining chip are outside of the ranges where those models have any accuracy. So it is back to keeping the fingers crossed. There's no time for the proper qualification procedures and fault analysis.

In addition to the above the maximum safe operating temperature would be dependent on the core supply voltage. For higher voltages the temperatures would be lower. My textbooks are in storage, I can't look them up now. But anyone interested could dig around the web and try to find some school problems like: the capacitor has plates at a distance of 10nm, the voltage difference between plates is 1V. What is the equivalent pressure in PSI required to keep those plates apart? The results are frighteningly high. Modern processed utilize pre-stressed silicon to partially deal with those electrostatic forces.

Losing 1 bee wont make or break ne thing.....its not like its the queen after all lol.

There is a saying that goes something like this, "you catch more bees with honey than with vinegar."

My miner died after 10 hours run time in my basement temps in the room were 80f.

I booted it  it came back .

I transported it  to the solar array I booted it and board was dead.

My miners dead board had labels crossed out indicating it failed QC.

My other five miners are stable in a barn that gets to 100f

the max op temps are 40 c   which is 112 f

I downclock to keep temps at 65c  95c or less.

They have run since before the ½ ing.





Back to my great adventure of trying to get it replaced. It is in Colorado

I will post when they contact me.

antminer s1, 2, and 4's dont use the same amount of power in the same size space. the miners you mentioned also run with a SOLID heatsink which has much more surface area than the individual heatsinks. also if 1 chip is hotter on a solid heatsink it helps spread those temps to the entire miner but with the individual ones it can only spread through the heatsink attached to the chip. no miner in the history of miners was made to run in the conditions many of you are running them in. I think ur a complete moron for thinkin u can run miners in a barn safely. next time when u argue a point make sure u do it on a 1 to 1 comparison which cant be done with any of the previous generation miners EXCEPT the s5+ and s7 model. even that is hard to do because the s9 is longer than the s5+ and s7 models which means there is more to cool than on the s5+ and s7. and for someone that owned an s4 runnin in a barn to say its safe blows my mind....those fuckers caught fire while running in datacenter conditions....and u chose to run it in a fuckin barn in 120 degree weather??? not to mention where the hell in the US is it 120 degrees?!?!?! that right there shows stupidity and thats y u r bein called kiddo.

no i want people to get the most out of their miners and i want them to use them SAFELY! your suggestions put peoples miners and homes at risk which is imoral. seein how many people lost miners for doin exactly what your suggestin they do should tell u to keep ur face hole shut and stop passin out bad advice. bitmain by no means requires u to run them in a datacenter. i dont have datacenters and i havent had a single miner die so far. they expect miners to know what the hell they r doin and u sir do not. they shouldnt have t say dont run them in a 120 degree oven of a barn....that should already be common sense.

does a used car salesman tell you which peddle is gas and which is break everytime he sells you a car?? fuck no because he knows you should already know the basics of driving a car so he shouldnt have to tell you which is which. the same applies to miners. if the people listen to morons like u they can only expect to have their miners get run into the dirt and possibly worse. if losin ur house is worth the risk so be it listen to him but i told u all what would happen and it happened....me an multiple other people....i dont need ne one else to agree that im right....i already know im right i just want others to know the risks too and when people like u post implyin that im wrong well i just gotta correct u.

by the way did bitmain state what the max temps were for every one of their other miners?? i dont recall ever seein that but maybe i missed it. if they didnt y r u bitchin now? because ur miners r at risk when running in a barn in the dead of summer?? all it takes is a little common sense kiddo. it goes a long way. i can fix ignorance but i cant fix stupid.

You done now?   We talk from exp.  I ran s4 and s2 s1 in 120 F barn (ambient temp) for over a year straight.  I know what these are capable of doing.  Hell it prolly was hotter then that.  When you sell a miner as a home miner.  One has to expect conditions arent that of a datacenter. And knowing that one should put out a spec sheet with a guide to what is acceptable.> You cant deny warranty when you dont state what op temps are supposed to be.  Anyway. you seem to have your view and i have mine but to start with the kiddos and name calling etc. shows me a lot about you. 

your overly infatuated with being right.  I know how that can get ya into some trouble. hehe.. Learn from it

Best Regards
d57heinz