Topic: BitMarket.Eu has closed down - page 45. (Read 204292 times)

It depends on the banks involved. The three days are maximum. Often I can see transfers completed within hours, but I cannot count on that.

Luckily this will change the next years, but until the banks move Bitcoin has a even graeter chance to spread.

argenta -> other bank = 3 days
i get my money sended on wensday ( from my work) and i see it on my bank at friday/monday ( local transfer)

any -> dexia = instant -> they work with a lend system , so you basicly lend the money ( -1 day ) and the actual amount is avaible 3 days later ( +1 day )
good thing is that it is instand avaible , but you pay a little fee for it that you do not notice .. fun system that most banks does and where most banks get there money from

same count for fortis (BNP) and ing

do not know about the few other banks in belguim

this goes only about local transfers

my last transfer to uk took me 14 days from argenta

my transfer to bangladesh from fortis took me 3 weeks ( 14 - 21 days )

beside , some1 posted here my conformation about paypal to in this topic
he says that you can link a debit card to paypal ... other reason to still allow it to be used

hopely this info can help you and it confirms what i told before
please note , every country got differend banks and there are differend ways that they work
this goes about BELGUIM banks
and goes about INTERNATIONAL transfers ( transfers outside europe is international)

Greets from PowerChaos

Anything that goes by the name "Sparkasse". I don't know about more expensive accounts, but basic ones tend to need three days, no matter where the transfer goes. (Obviously individual branches may have different rules, but most of them stick to the three-day-transfer rule, as that's how they make their money.)
As far as I know, most "common" banks (Volksbanken, Sparkassen, Landesbanken, ...) take that long. That's been my experience with incoming local transfers, anyway. Since I can't tell which bank the money came from, I don't know any more details, I'm afraid.

Can you tell us from which bank (and maybe to which one) it took you three days, so I know to avoid these banks, and don't open accounts/send transfers there?

In that case you're lucky with your bank. Mine takes three days, both for normal local transfers and SEPA transfers. Which kind of verifies my memory...

Wrong, I sent many SEPA transfers from Germany to other EU countries, and 95% of them appeared on the other account the next day in the afternoon.

In fact when I send a transfer from my one German account to the other in a different bank it appears there the next day in the morning.

So SEPA is a bit slower then national German transfer (arrival in the afternoon instead of morning).

You don't verify things by reading about it in Wikipedia. You verify things by doing them yourself and checking the result.

I think SEPA transfers are supposed to be at least as fast as local transfers, so banks here in Germany will usually take 3 days for SEPA transfers. (IIRC, I read this in wikipedia, if you want to verify it.)

a rating system will be great
can't you put it online earlier? so people can see that you (I) already have a lot of smooth transactions via bitmarket

SEPA 3 days? When I send a SEPA on a working day by 14:45, it appears in the other bank the next working day in the afternoon. So "3 days" is only if I make a transfer on Friday, then it appears on Monday. Otherwise just 1 day.

Bank transfers between banks in the UK go through in under 2 hours (Faster Payments). Usually under half an hour, I heard some people see it in the other bank within a minute or two, just to refresh the browser.

In Poland you can send transfers between banks through the BlueCash.pl system and it appears in the other bank within 10 minutes usually.

I was the guy who asked Moneybookers to be added to the list :-)

and it did thanx to me as my main trades account is Moneybookers cus I know PayPal is unfriendly to sellers and traders,it also screws  many more people.Type in PayPal complains or problems and you'll see loads more problems that just the scams lol.

well , i can not leave it to trow in a final agrument about safety ( thats where ever1 is complaning about right .. chargebacks and security ??)

direct source link
http://www.metrotime.be/digipaperArticlenl.html?storyId=44144691

i know that the text is in dutch and that it goes about belguim this time
but it show my point to that it is not even safe to use online banking

for the users who can not read dutch
they just say that there was a infection that infected online banking , so when the user is completing the transfer they get a strange popup that ask for conformation
as soon you confirm it then it get sended to the criminal there bank account

ofcourse this has nothing to do with paypal or with bitcoin
but it just shows that how secure you think that something is , that it isnt always that secure as it seems
and that 1 way transfers are not realy the best solution

1 way transfers are fun for the seller  , but a security risk for the buyer ( do he realy get his items he buy ?? )
2 way transfers are more risky for sellers and definaly a lot of fun for the buyers (if he doesnt give me the items .. then i just take my money back )
so both things got there good and bad sides
but the problem stays the same , it is just as easy to scam some1 or to get scammed
as seller or as buyer ... depends how you take care of the things and how you make the deal

the only thing that realy helps to prevent from scamming is to secure and trust the trade
so if it is a real life friend , or you find some info about that user ? or you find not direcly something that doesnt make it looks strange then it is already safer to start the trade

if you do not trust some1 then you can better not trade ... but you need to start somewhere ofcourse

hopely this post can clear up the useless comments about the safety and the rubish about paypal .. bank transfer , moneybookers .. bitcoins .. and all other trading currency's

to get to the point

money/trading = risky
risky = fraude
fraude = humanity
humanity = welcome to our world
our world = cyberworld
cyberworld = future
future  = more fraude/scamming
more fraude/scamming = more security
more security = more money/trading
more trading/money = risky ...

Greets From PowerChaos

I see. In that case, it doesn't really address their money laundering argument and is just ineffective...

I just wanted to make up how the friends at MB could be satisfied..

of course the security for the customer isnt increased, neither it is with some software or other things to sell.

and thats why the post aint OT

This is kinda OT here, so you may want to start a new thread. Anyhow, as a potential buyer, I'd be pretty uncomfortable with this as you may not send me the (correct) key, or keep a local copy of the wallet and empty it as soon as the money arrives. It'd put me in a pretty vulnerable position.

OK, the prob mit PP and MB is, that there aint sold any goods that can be followed if shipped or not?

SEPA is 3 days (and free) now, dunno about SWIFT etc, these are to expensive for myself and very low BTC-amounts (1-10).
But in local (and free) bank transfer it takes just 1 day within the same bankgroup, and the law says in next years the time is to be limited again..

The main point of MB and PP is the ease of use.. just type in an email-address and go on paying.. thats fine. Bank-transfers are much more complex compared to that.. when does Bitpal start?! hope they do..


What about sending a wallet.dat - that one can be encrypted, stored and sent via multiple ways, not only a protocol..
would that be a way to go? I mean, I also can sell websites and word document, whatsoever.. so its comparable for me.

I think of just selling a new wallet.dat which helds the amount of sold BTC and transfer it encryptet.. after receiving money, they get the key. What do you think?

+1!

I didn't use Paypal for BitMarket trading anyway, nor bank transfers, just MB. It's the only available option that can complete a trade within a couple of minutes (once the buyer responds). Plus it's P2P trading, this nicely obfuscates the incoming money from an MB point of view. I'm hoping this decision will move some traffic from PayPal to Moneybookers. I also hope the option will remain in place to trade directly over Moneybookers with other peers in the future. If you have an MB account with just transfers coming in from BitMarket (supposedly in the future), I don't think it would take them long to shut down your account.

I've never had a bank transfer that didn't take at least 3 days

So far I haven't had any problems at all with Paypal chargebacks, though I've only done two or three orders, my problem is the length of time it takes to get back to Dwolla, if anyone ever charge backs me, I'll give Paypal proof that I gave them what they paid for, and if they refuse that, I'll take them to small claims court

Yes, its slower, but not as much as you exaggerated it.

0) Well, maybe its possible to use Paypal without having a bank account, but in practice almost everyone who uses Paypal to receive money has a bank account, otherwise he can't get the Paypal money out (otherwise then buying something with Paypal), but most things can't be bought with Paypal so sooner or later he'll need a bank account anyway, for example if he needs to buy some food in the local grocery shop with that money. Its a theoretically possible, but anyway inconvenient and very unlikely that someone uses Paypal not having a bank account.

2) Even international bank transfers take max 2 days, often 1 day. At least in Europe. They can even take 1 second if both people have accounts in the same bank.

3) No need to deposit money to Paypal waiting 3-5 days as you can just pay with Paypal using a debit card to your bank account, which works instantly.

The rest of your post about not being able to reverse the payment in case the other side doesn't send the Bitcoins is also completely a non-issue, and completely backwards. Not being able to reverse the payment is the only way to make the trade safe, and especially if you are SELLING Bitcoins, you have nothing to worry about. You got your bank transfer, the buyer can not reverse it (unkike a Paypal payment), so you can safely send him Bitcoins.

The Bitcoins are deposited in Bitmarket.eu wallet so if the person doesn't confirm he got the bank transfer he'll not gain anything as he'll not get his Bitcoins back from Bitmarket.eu - they will stay frozen there, so there is no incentive to scam. Anyway if you are afraid of that, just don't use Bitmarket.eu, use plenty of other exchanges where money is deposited at the exchange, like MtGox.com Bitcoin7.com Tradehill.com

ok time for some exlanation then on your post

0) when does paypal ask for a bank account ?? after you sended 1200€ ... long way to go if you barely use it o.O (then it just ask visa , it never ask your bank account)
1) from paypal to bank -> 3 - 7 days
2) from bank to bank in usa ( international ) -> 7 - 14 days
3) from bank back to paypal -> 3 - 5 days

extra , pay with visa ?? no way possible if you do it with a bank transfer - > never

conformation ?? -> only when you as end user confirm it , we get a conformation that it is sended but not when it is recrived -> easy to scam (i never got the money)
getting refunded ?? -> no way possible -> you need to sue to get it back -> a lot extra money lost to possible win the case  -> a lot of proof is needed -> not a good option

that was the short explanation as the full explanation will take ages to read

to show my point (and sorry , now i released a other way to get scammed ) try it yourself to get something refunded , even if it is just 1€ ... good luck with that part

other examples needed ?? -> read the news , there are enouf examples of fraude and some dark practice to hide money and to gain money with out the user that can get it back (welcome to real life )

the big point i mean is that no transfers are safe , exept just giving it cash and see the guy sitting next to you transfering the bitcoins to your account ... all other payments can be scammed if you know how (some are easyer then others )

want to have the best secure way ?? just setup a contract .. and then you got something to sue for that you wil always win
but who will setup a contract if it goes about bitcoin ?
now you hopely got my point and hopely you can stop whining about stuff you think you know you are talking about and saying that it is safer because you just think it is

no offence to bitmarket.eu and sorry that i post this as reply in here
but i just want to show that it would be sadly to remove that option because of the high risk when there are other high risks to (or do you provide support to if the end user refuse to confirm my payment i made to his bank ? or that i can not do internal transfers because high security risk that the bank doesnt allow it to complete the transfer like in holland ??  )

never wondered why egypt cant use bank transfer ? but it can use moneybookers or western union ( thats a other story) ?? and that paypal is not allowing them ?
same as a lot of other country's that are not allowed to do bank transfers ??

anyway
hopely you understand where i am talking about and if you realy want to understand everything then i would suggest to do a bit of investigation about it

if paypal need to go from this bitcoinmarket.eu then it is sadly for me , but if it can stay on it then i will be happy to use/support it
i am even willing to help bitmarket.eu to fight against the chargeback/fraude  if i can make a deal with them ( so everything get past me for example ? like i do wiht my escrow service but then with special deals ? )

Thank you for reading
Greetings From PowerChaos

I don't get it why would anyone need to sell BTC with Paypal. If you have Paypal then for sure you also have a bank account, yes? So if you have a bank account, you can sell BTC receiving money in your bank account, and from the bank account you can easily deposit it to Paypal if you need it to end up in there.

The result is the same, but all sides of the transaction are safe.