Black Arrow R9-12 threads, DZ Miners Co-op. Plz move ?s and discussion here. - page 5.

achtung082

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I personally don’t believe the co-op is responsible for poor performing hardware; any more responsible then we would be as individuals who could have purchased this hardware. If this hardware was sitting in your house who would you be holding responsible? I would be complaining to the re-seller and or manufacturer and making the issue very public until someone at least responds with a reasonable explanation or plan to correct the issue. The Co-Op has swapped out hardware for this round in an attempt to correct the issue, but I have always been off the opinion that blackarrow should have done or be doing a lot more to correct their bad hardware.

I would be very reluctant to purchase anything from BA ever again.

Vagnavs

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well it's a learning lesson.. Will the co-op be making up for the shortfall? or are we going to eat the shortfall.

Tehfiend

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Quote from: philipma1957 on January 16, 2014, 11:37:58 AM

well roi in btc has been next to impossible since july of 2013.
very early BFL buyers clearly roi'd in btc. very early avalon buyers roi'd in btc.
even group 5+6 with knc is almost roi'd in btc.

I do not have any concerns about roi in btc . If I did I would not mine. for btc to work you need miners and you need investors in btc. you can be both or be either one.
To complain is okay but if everyone stopped mining this would die. If everyone stopped buying the coins this would die.
So to think this buy is a failure in btc roi it is. it is not a failure in usd/fiat. frankly I don't care about that.

i do care about the unaddressed shortfall in promised hash rate. if I had received full hash power I would had earned 11 shares x .04 btc = .44btc more then I have.

I'm really trying to understand this mindset. You are basically saying that you willingly donate your BTC to ASIC manufacturers. While I admire your altruistic desire to protect the network I don't understand what exactly you hope to accomplish by this. IMO this sort of belief is what creates an industry of ASIC manufactures that are always late and over priced since there are plenty of people willing to take a BTC loss so long as they have a fiat profit. I don't think it's a good model were investing in mining hardware is only feasible with a constantly increasing exchange rate...

philipma1957

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'The right to privacy matters'

Quote from: Tehfiend on January 16, 2014, 10:48:56 AM

Quote from: Vagnavs on January 15, 2014, 06:57:47 PM

Quote from: philipma1957 on January 15, 2014, 06:46:34 PM

my larger concern is the shortfall in hash/btc has not been addressed.

we got a share payout of .02866 btc today times 400 = about 11.464 btc

Jan 1 and Jan 2 are diff of 1180 mill we should have earned 1.406 a day x 2 = 2.812 btc

Jan 3 - Jan 13 are diff of 1418 mill we should have earned 1.170 a day x 11 = 12.87 btc

Jan 14 - Jan 15 are a diff of 1789 mill we should have earned .9274 a day x 1 = .9274 btc I won't count the 15th as it is a partial

this is 16.6094 btc vs 11.464 btc that is more then a 5 coin shortfall

I'm interested in seeing how it is resolved as well..

Same here. When DZ was all over the forums pumping this co-op I kept saying there's no way it will have positive BTC ROI but decided to buy one share just to see and now am glad I only bought a single share as it's not even close.

well roi in btc has been next to impossible since july of 2013.
very early BFL buyers clearly roi'd in btc. very early avalon buyers roi'd in btc.
even group 5+6 with knc is almost roi'd in btc.

I do not have any concerns about roi in btc . If I did I would not mine. for btc to work you need miners and you need investors in btc. you can be both or be either one.
To complain is okay but if everyone stopped mining this would die. If everyone stopped buying the coins this would die.
So to think this buy is a failure in btc roi it is. it is not a failure in usd/fiat. frankly I don't care about that.

i do care about the unaddressed shortfall in promised hash rate. if I had received full hash power I would had earned 11 shares x .04 btc = .44btc more then I have.

achtung082

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Activity: 358

Merit: 255

Back to

Worker 1 Hash Rate 0 Gh/s
Worker 2 Hash Rate 2767.41 Gh/s
Worker 3 Hash Rate 0 Gh/s

Tehfiend

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Activity: 491

Merit: 514

Quote from: Vagnavs on January 15, 2014, 06:57:47 PM

Quote from: philipma1957 on January 15, 2014, 06:46:34 PM

my larger concern is the shortfall in hash/btc has not been addressed.

we got a share payout of .02866 btc today times 400 = about 11.464 btc

Jan 1 and Jan 2 are diff of 1180 mill we should have earned 1.406 a day x 2 = 2.812 btc

Jan 3 - Jan 13 are diff of 1418 mill we should have earned 1.170 a day x 11 = 12.87 btc

Jan 14 - Jan 15 are a diff of 1789 mill we should have earned .9274 a day x 1 = .9274 btc I won't count the 15th as it is a partial

this is 16.6094 btc vs 11.464 btc that is more then a 5 coin shortfall

I'm interested in seeing how it is resolved as well..

Same here. When DZ was all over the forums pumping this co-op I kept saying there's no way it will have positive BTC ROI but decided to buy one share just to see and now am glad I only bought a single share as it's not even close.

philipma1957

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'The right to privacy matters'

Quote from: Vagnavs on January 16, 2014, 01:37:35 AM

Quote from: philipma1957 on January 16, 2014, 12:37:58 AM

Quote from: Vagnavs on January 15, 2014, 06:57:47 PM

Quote from: philipma1957 on January 15, 2014, 06:46:34 PM

my larger concern is the shortfall in hash/btc has not been addressed.

we got a share payout of .02866 btc today times 400 = about 11.464 btc

Jan 1 and Jan 2 are diff of 1180 mill we should have earned 1.406 a day x 2 = 2.812 btc

Jan 3 - Jan 13 are diff of 1418 mill we should have earned 1.170 a day x 11 = 12.87 btc

Jan 14 - Jan 15 are a diff of 1789 mill we should have earned .9274 a day x 1 = .9274 btc I won't count the 15th as it is a partial

this is 16.6094 btc vs 11.464 btc that is more then a 5 coin shortfall

I'm interested in seeing how it is resolved as well..

Please don't forget this is 5 coins over the last 2 weeks plus the 11-13 we were already short. grand total is around 16-18 btc. or about .0425btc per share . now they have done a lot of work for us quite a bit. and usd/fiat wise we made money on this round.

but r15+r16 is a bit short as is r5+r6..

I worry about round 17 as the entire coop's future is kind of sunk into r17… well time will tell.

I also worry that if btc jumps from 850 to 3000 the 16 -18 coins here jump from

13600/15300 to 48000/54000 usd.

the growing shortage here is now big enough to buy 5 ant miner s-1's.

Thanks for keeping track of the BTC/USD and your analysis. I'm curious to see how things work out.
regards,
Brian

well remember the numbers are based on 'normal luck' so one can argue a bit higher or lower but the numbers are close.

they have made efforts to address this. they made 2 payments of btc and they added a knc miner on and off. but lately the last 2 payments no coin was added and we were short hash almost every day of the 30 days that were the last 2 payments. we did have a few days of excess hash power. but it has been frustrating

Vagnavs

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Quote from: philipma1957 on January 16, 2014, 12:37:58 AM

Quote from: Vagnavs on January 15, 2014, 06:57:47 PM

Quote from: philipma1957 on January 15, 2014, 06:46:34 PM

my larger concern is the shortfall in hash/btc has not been addressed.

we got a share payout of .02866 btc today times 400 = about 11.464 btc

Jan 1 and Jan 2 are diff of 1180 mill we should have earned 1.406 a day x 2 = 2.812 btc

Jan 3 - Jan 13 are diff of 1418 mill we should have earned 1.170 a day x 11 = 12.87 btc

Jan 14 - Jan 15 are a diff of 1789 mill we should have earned .9274 a day x 1 = .9274 btc I won't count the 15th as it is a partial

this is 16.6094 btc vs 11.464 btc that is more then a 5 coin shortfall

I'm interested in seeing how it is resolved as well..

Please don't forget this is 5 coins over the last 2 weeks plus the 11-13 we were already short. grand total is around 16-18 btc. or about .0425btc per share . now they have done a lot of work for us quite a bit. and usd/fiat wise we made money on this round.

but r15+r16 is a bit short as is r5+r6..

I worry about round 17 as the entire coop's future is kind of sunk into r17… well time will tell.

I also worry that if btc jumps from 850 to 3000 the 16 -18 coins here jump from

13600/15300 to 48000/54000 usd.

the growing shortage here is now big enough to buy 5 ant miner s-1's.

Thanks for keeping track of the BTC/USD and your analysis. I'm curious to see how things work out.
regards,
Brian

btc6000

member

Activity: 116

Merit: 10

Quote from: philipma1957 on January 15, 2014, 06:28:02 PM

Of all of dz coops winners (in fiat) only the knc r5+r6 is close to roi in btc. And if we sold the knc from rounds 5+6 today it would be roi'd in btc. as we could get 10k-14k for the pair

Realistically, if we sold our hardware now, would we still make a BTC loss?

Cheers,

philipma1957

legendary

Activity: 4256

Merit: 8551

'The right to privacy matters'

Quote from: Vagnavs on January 15, 2014, 06:57:47 PM

Quote from: philipma1957 on January 15, 2014, 06:46:34 PM

my larger concern is the shortfall in hash/btc has not been addressed.

we got a share payout of .02866 btc today times 400 = about 11.464 btc

Jan 1 and Jan 2 are diff of 1180 mill we should have earned 1.406 a day x 2 = 2.812 btc

Jan 3 - Jan 13 are diff of 1418 mill we should have earned 1.170 a day x 11 = 12.87 btc

Jan 14 - Jan 15 are a diff of 1789 mill we should have earned .9274 a day x 1 = .9274 btc I won't count the 15th as it is a partial

this is 16.6094 btc vs 11.464 btc that is more then a 5 coin shortfall

I'm interested in seeing how it is resolved as well..

Please don't forget this is 5 coins over the last 2 weeks plus the 11-13 we were already short. grand total is around 16-18 btc. or about .0425btc per share . now they have done a lot of work for us quite a bit. and usd/fiat wise we made money on this round.

but r15+r16 is a bit short as is r5+r6..

I worry about round 17 as the entire coop's future is kind of sunk into r17… well time will tell.

I also worry that if btc jumps from 850 to 3000 the 16 -18 coins here jump from

13600/15300 to 48000/54000 usd.

the growing shortage here is now big enough to buy 5 ant miner s-1's.

Vagnavs

legendary

Activity: 1121

Merit: 1003

Quote from: philipma1957 on January 15, 2014, 06:46:34 PM

my larger concern is the shortfall in hash/btc has not been addressed.

we got a share payout of .02866 btc today times 400 = about 11.464 btc

Jan 1 and Jan 2 are diff of 1180 mill we should have earned 1.406 a day x 2 = 2.812 btc

Jan 3 - Jan 13 are diff of 1418 mill we should have earned 1.170 a day x 11 = 12.87 btc

Jan 14 - Jan 15 are a diff of 1789 mill we should have earned .9274 a day x 1 = .9274 btc I won't count the 15th as it is a partial

this is 16.6094 btc vs 11.464 btc that is more then a 5 coin shortfall

I'm interested in seeing how it is resolved as well..

philipma1957

legendary

Activity: 4256

Merit: 8551

'The right to privacy matters'

my larger concern is the shortfall in hash/btc has not been addressed.

we got a share payout of .02866 btc today times 400 = about 11.464 btc

Jan 1 and Jan 2 are diff of 1180 mill we should have earned 1.406 a day x 2 = 2.812 btc

Jan 3 - Jan 13 are diff of 1418 mill we should have earned 1.170 a day x 11 = 12.87 btc

Jan 14 - Jan 15 are a diff of 1789 mill we should have earned .9274 a day x 1 = .9274 btc I won't count the 15th as it is a partial

this is 16.6094 btc vs 11.464 btc that is more then a 5 coin shortfall

philipma1957

legendary

Activity: 4256

Merit: 8551

'The right to privacy matters'

Quote from: Vagnavs on January 15, 2014, 06:20:29 PM

well, when I made the decision to buy. It was that I would make more BTC than invested. I know the argument USD/BTC and so on.
Regards,
Brian

well fiat vs btc. does get people going.

But frankly almost no one has done roi mining in btc since last spring..

Of all of dz coops winners (in fiat) only the knc r5+r6 is close to roi in btc. And if we sold the knc from rounds 5+6 today it would be roi'd in btc. as we could get 10k-14k for the pair

The last gear that made roi easy in btc was anything from BFL if you got it before july 30th of 2013. before that avalon made easy roi in btc.

Vagnavs

legendary

Activity: 1121

Merit: 1003

[/quote]

rounds 9-12 made more then 68000 usd. it was about 50000 usd in and about 120000 usd out

it more then doubled the usd cost to create the setup.

but if you purchased btc you would have done better.

basically your comparsion is I picked stock and changed 50000usd to 120000usd but if I had picked stock b (buy and hold the btc) I would have changed 50000 usd into 400000 usd.

but you would still be a failure since you did not sell the btc at 1200usd. you would be saying I should have sold at the all time high

so rounds 9 to 12 are successful but not as successful as buying btc was. far from a failure.

just not as good. I only say this because every country in the world that charges tax would charge you tax on the profit made on rounds 9 to rounds 12.
[/quote]

well, when I made the decision to buy. It was that I would make more BTC than invested. I know the argument USD/BTC and so on.
Regards,
Brian

philipma1957

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Activity: 4256

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'The right to privacy matters'

Quote from: tgbtg_2013 on January 15, 2014, 05:48:29 PM

Thanks for the added hash power!

Worker 1 Hash Rate       0 Gh/s
Worker 2 Hash Rate       2805.282 Gh/s
Worker 3 Hash Rate       523.49 Gh/s

ah back to normal.

tgbtg_2013

newbie

Activity: 22

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Thanks for the added hash power!

Worker 1 Hash Rate       0 Gh/s
Worker 2 Hash Rate       2805.282 Gh/s
Worker 3 Hash Rate       523.49 Gh/s

philipma1957

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'The right to privacy matters'

Quote from: davedx on January 15, 2014, 10:00:11 AM

Quote from: achtung082 on January 14, 2014, 08:35:21 AM

Just hope blackarrow have better support with the new hardware and also don't mine with it for to long before shipping out. From the pictures Bob sent back from his visit, they seem to have enough of the Bitfury boards running to have figured out how to make them work and at least try to get there customers what they sold them.
The Co-Op has done a great job so far in compensating the buyers these rounds, not sure what blackarrow has done to ease the pain.

With difficulty making big jumps again probably from pre-order hardware mining, these rounds are probably not going to produce much more in BTC.

Indeed. I'm in mining to make BTC profits, but this round is looking like a big failure for me. I'm hoping R17 will go better, but I don't have high hopes now.

I don't know how anyone is making a profit mining, especially when you factor in all the costs.

My future investments in BTC will probably be to just buy BTC.

rounds 9-12 made more then 68000 usd. it was about 50000 usd in and about 120000 usd out

it more then doubled the usd cost to create the setup.

but if you purchased btc you would have done better.

basically your comparsion is I picked stock and changed 50000usd to 120000usd but if I had picked stock b (buy and hold the btc) I would have changed 50000 usd into 400000 usd.

but you would still be a failure since you did not sell the btc at 1200usd. you would be saying I should have sold at the all time high

so rounds 9 to 12 are successful but not as successful as buying btc was. far from a failure.

just not as good. I only say this because every country in the world that charges tax would charge you tax on the profit made on rounds 9 to rounds 12.

Vagnavs

legendary

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Merit: 1003

Quote from: davedx on January 15, 2014, 10:00:11 AM

Quote from: achtung082 on January 14, 2014, 08:35:21 AM

Just hope blackarrow have better support with the new hardware and also don't mine with it for to long before shipping out. From the pictures Bob sent back from his visit, they seem to have enough of the Bitfury boards running to have figured out how to make them work and at least try to get there customers what they sold them.
The Co-Op has done a great job so far in compensating the buyers these rounds, not sure what blackarrow has done to ease the pain.

With difficulty making big jumps again probably from pre-order hardware mining, these rounds are probably not going to produce much more in BTC.

Indeed. I'm in mining to make BTC profits, but this round is looking like a big failure for me. I'm hoping R17 will go better, but I don't have high hopes now.

I don't know how anyone is making a profit mining, especially when you factor in all the costs.

My future investments in BTC will probably be to just buy BTC.

+1 things started off good and we've had a few issues. I totally agree with davedx.

Just and update on the ROI. I invested 10 BTC and recouped 3.20 BTC. That's not including today's payment, if there is one. So yes, a bad deal for me as well..
Regards,
Brian

davedx

sr. member

Activity: 434

Merit: 250

Quote from: achtung082 on January 14, 2014, 08:35:21 AM

Just hope blackarrow have better support with the new hardware and also don't mine with it for to long before shipping out. From the pictures Bob sent back from his visit, they seem to have enough of the Bitfury boards running to have figured out how to make them work and at least try to get there customers what they sold them.
The Co-Op has done a great job so far in compensating the buyers these rounds, not sure what blackarrow has done to ease the pain.

With difficulty making big jumps again probably from pre-order hardware mining, these rounds are probably not going to produce much more in BTC.

Indeed. I'm in mining to make BTC profits, but this round is looking like a big failure for me. I'm hoping R17 will go better, but I don't have high hopes now.

I don't know how anyone is making a profit mining, especially when you factor in all the costs.

My future investments in BTC will probably be to just buy BTC.

achtung082

sr. member

Activity: 358

Merit: 255

Just hope blackarrow have better support with the new hardware and also don't mine with it for to long before shipping out. From the pictures Bob sent back from his visit, they seem to have enough of the Bitfury boards running to have figured out how to make them work and at least try to get there customers what they sold them.
The Co-Op has done a great job so far in compensating the buyers these rounds, not sure what blackarrow has done to ease the pain.

With difficulty making big jumps again probably from pre-order hardware mining, these rounds are probably not going to produce much more in BTC.

Topic: Black Arrow R9-12 threads, DZ Miners Co-op. Plz move ?s and discussion here. - page 5. (Read 25175 times)