Boxing: Anthony Joshua vs Robert Helenius (replacement) - page 4.

Kemarit

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Quote from: coin-investor on July 23, 2023, 09:50:38 AM

Quote from: Kemarit on July 21, 2023, 03:16:33 PM

That's always been the case for Joshua after his first loss to Ruiz and Usyk. In the second Usyk fight, he had a breakdown after the fight.

So this is very important for him, Although he did get a new trainer, but still as the first round starts, it will be just him and Dillian Whyte. And it will be more mental for Joshua here than physical. He might be in the best shape of his life, but if his minds has started to doubt that he can win, then it won't help him here, IMHO.

The breakdown is so hard to see for Joshua's fans and camps but it is what it was it's a hard climb for Joshua but he is very prone to a breakdown he easily gives out when faced with a good adversary we first saw this in the Ruiz Jr fight he spits his mouthpiece and failed to answer when asked if he wants to continue after getting a knockdown, and on Usyk fight he became passive when Usyk was attacking him, I'm sure we will see a little bit of that trace when Whyte shows no respect to him in their coming match.

It's all in the mind now for AJ if he see flashes of the Ruiz fight in his mind in this fight. And we will see how Derrick James can motivate him in this fight. As @inthelongrun, he is training with a lot of great boxers as well. So hopefully, he will be extra motivated to train very hard in the same gym, sweating it out with the likes of Ryan Garcia and Errol Spence Jr.

So it's a mental game going forward for AJ, he should go back to his old style. And not be hesitant and let his hands go if needed. Because after the his first lost to Ruiz Jr., for sure majority of us has notice that AJ doesn't want to pull the trigger, and unsure without to punch 1-2 or just go chase the opponent in the ring without throwing any power punch.

Jating

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Quote from: coin-investor on July 26, 2023, 05:46:59 PM

Quote from: Distinctin on July 26, 2023, 08:54:39 AM

. AJ still has more fights to come, and what he needs to ensure is that he starts winning and shows consistency. Although he isn't a champion now, who knows, he may get a chance to face Fury in the future.

Yes he is still young and he is still ok but a boxer is only as good as his last fight two championship losses are not good and a climb to the top again is not easy and if you are faced with losses while climbing to the top, then you are on your way out.

Very well said, in his last 2 fights, he was against a tough opponent in Usyk, world class technical boxer and as much as Joshua wanted to win and he has a big heart, Usyk has the tools and mentality to over come him as well.

Quote from: coin-investor on July 26, 2023, 05:46:59 PM

Whyte is his ticket to the top again but I doubt if he can regain his old glory, Usyk is doing great Fury and Wilder are also doing great, he needs to finish his business and that is to fight Fury and Wilder, beat them both and all his past failures will vanish and he will leave a great legacy, but the biggest question is can he do it.

Maybe bring back his confidence to win or even score a knockout against a old Dillian Whyte. But he still needs to be very careful from that one shot that might change the fight in favor of Dillian. So he shouldn't be overconfident and not to estimate Whyte here. And so if he wins, definitely, he can regain some of his pride. But against a top tier fighter in Fury or Wilder, it could be very different fight for Joshua.

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Quote from: coin-investor on July 26, 2023, 05:46:59 PM

Quote from: Distinctin on July 26, 2023, 08:54:39 AM

. AJ still has more fights to come, and what he needs to ensure is that he starts winning and shows consistency. Although he isn't a champion now, who knows, he may get a chance to face Fury in the future.

Yes he is still young and he is still ok but a boxer is only as good as his last fight two championship losses are not good and a climb to the top again is not easy and if you are faced with losses while climbing to the top, then you are on your way out.

Whyte is his ticket to the top again but I doubt if he can regain his old glory, Usyk is doing great Fury and Wilder are also doing great, he needs to finish his business and that is to fight Fury and Wilder, beat them both and all his past failures will vanish and he will leave a great legacy, but the biggest question is can he do it.

Old glory is nothing but memories. Well it is a good thing that Whyte still is being celebrated for his potential, but 35 is not really all that young to be considered "full of potential" anymore. Especially in boxing, a sport in which the retirement age starts at 36-39. At his age he should have already shown his peak techniques as well as peak body vitality. So there is a chance that things will play out fine for Whyte in his future fights, but I think he will not be making much progress, judging from the comparison of his past fights, that chance seems low.

Although who knows, I have been pleasantly surprised before...

AJ is not someone who is going to have an easy time either but he is clearly the top contender. And he has a couple of good years to go on.

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Quote from: Distinctin on July 26, 2023, 08:54:39 AM

. AJ still has more fights to come, and what he needs to ensure is that he starts winning and shows consistency. Although he isn't a champion now, who knows, he may get a chance to face Fury in the future.

Yes he is still young and he is still ok but a boxer is only as good as his last fight two championship losses are not good and a climb to the top again is not easy and if you are faced with losses while climbing to the top, then you are on your way out.

Whyte is his ticket to the top again but I doubt if he can regain his old glory, Usyk is doing great Fury and Wilder are also doing great, he needs to finish his business and that is to fight Fury and Wilder, beat them both and all his past failures will vanish and he will leave a great legacy, but the biggest question is can he do it.

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Quote from: Jating on July 23, 2023, 03:57:38 PM

Quote from: coin-investor on July 23, 2023, 09:50:38 AM

Quote from: Kemarit on July 21, 2023, 03:16:33 PM

That's always been the case for Joshua after his first loss to Ruiz and Usyk. In the second Usyk fight, he had a breakdown after the fight.

So this is very important for him, Although he did get a new trainer, but still as the first round starts, it will be just him and Dillian Whyte. And it will be more mental for Joshua here than physical. He might be in the best shape of his life, but if his minds has started to doubt that he can win, then it won't help him here, IMHO.

The breakdown is so hard to see for Joshua's fans and camps but it is what it was it's a hard climb for Joshua but he is very prone to a breakdown he easily gives out when faced with a good adversary we first saw this in the Ruiz Jr fight he spits his mouthpiece and failed to answer when asked if he wants to continue after getting a knockdown, and on Usyk fight he became passive when Usyk was attacking him, I'm sure we will see a little bit of that trace when Whyte shows no respect to him in their coming match.

True, but against Whyte who he has been beaten already and perhaps already decline as he is not that active, maybe the camp of AJ thinks that he is a good boxer to have a tune up fight.

But I do agree, he has been exposed as having a weak mentality that when he face a superior boxer, he doesn't know what to do. When he thought that he can beat Ruiz Jr in the first time, suddenly it as a game changer for him. Because after that, AJ become a different boxer and started to be cautious in the beginning and no longer the aggressive boxer that once he was. As if he is afraid to exchange with his opponents.

AJ better change his mindset; he should not view it as just a tune-up fight but consider it a big challenge, so he can give his best. AJ isn't the same boxer as he was, and every opponent he faces will believe they can beat him, especially after his defeat. AJ still has more fights to come, and what he needs to ensure is that he starts winning and shows consistency. Although he isn't a champion now, who knows, he may get a chance to face Fury in the future.

inthelongrun

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Ryan Garcia posted a picture of him, Anthony Joshua, Errol Spence, and their coach. Anthony Joshua seems happy and this is important for him to regain his confidence. Not sure if undisputed 154 champion Jermell Charlo started his training yet but it would've added more motivation for AJ to train harder. And there's also 3-belt holder Errol Spence grinding hard for his undisputed fight against Bud Crawford. A win for Spence this coming weekend would surely make AJ more empowered. But a loss, especially if Bud will clearly dominate the fight would make AJ think about Jamal's effectiveness and questions himself if he is training the right way.

Jating

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Quote from: coin-investor on July 23, 2023, 09:50:38 AM

Quote from: Kemarit on July 21, 2023, 03:16:33 PM

That's always been the case for Joshua after his first loss to Ruiz and Usyk. In the second Usyk fight, he had a breakdown after the fight.

So this is very important for him, Although he did get a new trainer, but still as the first round starts, it will be just him and Dillian Whyte. And it will be more mental for Joshua here than physical. He might be in the best shape of his life, but if his minds has started to doubt that he can win, then it won't help him here, IMHO.

The breakdown is so hard to see for Joshua's fans and camps but it is what it was it's a hard climb for Joshua but he is very prone to a breakdown he easily gives out when faced with a good adversary we first saw this in the Ruiz Jr fight he spits his mouthpiece and failed to answer when asked if he wants to continue after getting a knockdown, and on Usyk fight he became passive when Usyk was attacking him, I'm sure we will see a little bit of that trace when Whyte shows no respect to him in their coming match.

True, but against Whyte who he has been beaten already and perhaps already decline as he is not that active, maybe the camp of AJ thinks that he is a good boxer to have a tune up fight.

But I do agree, he has been exposed as having a weak mentality that when he face a superior boxer, he doesn't know what to do. When he thought that he can beat Ruiz Jr in the first time, suddenly it as a game changer for him. Because after that, AJ become a different boxer and started to be cautious in the beginning and no longer the aggressive boxer that once he was. As if he is afraid to exchange with his opponents.

coin-investor

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Quote from: Kemarit on July 21, 2023, 03:16:33 PM

That's always been the case for Joshua after his first loss to Ruiz and Usyk. In the second Usyk fight, he had a breakdown after the fight.

So this is very important for him, Although he did get a new trainer, but still as the first round starts, it will be just him and Dillian Whyte. And it will be more mental for Joshua here than physical. He might be in the best shape of his life, but if his minds has started to doubt that he can win, then it won't help him here, IMHO.

The breakdown is so hard to see for Joshua's fans and camps but it is what it was it's a hard climb for Joshua but he is very prone to a breakdown he easily gives out when faced with a good adversary we first saw this in the Ruiz Jr fight he spits his mouthpiece and failed to answer when asked if he wants to continue after getting a knockdown, and on Usyk fight he became passive when Usyk was attacking him, I'm sure we will see a little bit of that trace when Whyte shows no respect to him in their coming match.

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Quote from: Kemarit on July 21, 2023, 03:16:33 PM

Quote from: Bananington on July 21, 2023, 01:53:25 PM

Quote from: aioc on July 20, 2023, 10:47:15 AM

They have gone to a lot after their first meeting, Joshua back then was so great and on top of the world he commanded respect and people thought he was invincible until that 3 losses, those losses exposed him, and because of this Dillian Whyte will take this opportunity to put all these demons in Joshua mind, Whyte knows that Joshua wants this fight and he is here to spoil everything, he knows that Joshua will try to put up a great fight so he can challenge Fury and Wilder for a big fight.

Anthony Joshua is really in a good shape and frame of mind ahead of this fight, the fact that he has a new trainer is really helping him into the right shape and frame of mind for the fight. Anthony may not be able to be his best like we saw in his prime, but he can fight better than he did in his last three fights. And for the same reasons that he knows how important this fight is, he will take it seriously and not give Dillian any chance to stop him from his target of getting through to the next fight against Fury.

That's always been the case for Joshua after his first lost to Ruiz and Usyk. In the second Usyk fight, he get the services of American trainer Robert Garcia, but still, he failed to win against Usyk and he had a break down after the fight.

So this is very important for him, although he did get a new trainer, but still as the first round starts, it will be just him and Dillian Whyte. And it's going to be more mental for Joshua here rather than physical. He might be in the best shape of his life, but if his minds has started to doubt that he can win, then it won't help him here, IMHO.

It's his own self who is going to be his enemy if he hasn't moved on yet from his defeats in big fights. Unlike Whyte, who isn't too popular, so he doesn't have much to lose. This fight is going to be a stepping stone for both boxers to make their names popular again. The winner here might be given an opportunity to slowly climb the ladder until that championship fight comes again.

Kemarit

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Quote from: Bananington on July 21, 2023, 01:53:25 PM

Quote from: aioc on July 20, 2023, 10:47:15 AM

They have gone to a lot after their first meeting, Joshua back then was so great and on top of the world he commanded respect and people thought he was invincible until that 3 losses, those losses exposed him, and because of this Dillian Whyte will take this opportunity to put all these demons in Joshua mind, Whyte knows that Joshua wants this fight and he is here to spoil everything, he knows that Joshua will try to put up a great fight so he can challenge Fury and Wilder for a big fight.

Anthony Joshua is really in a good shape and frame of mind ahead of this fight, the fact that he has a new trainer is really helping him into the right shape and frame of mind for the fight. Anthony may not be able to be his best like we saw in his prime, but he can fight better than he did in his last three fights. And for the same reasons that he knows how important this fight is, he will take it seriously and not give Dillian any chance to stop him from his target of getting through to the next fight against Fury.

That's always been the case for Joshua after his first lost to Ruiz and Usyk. In the second Usyk fight, he get the services of American trainer Robert Garcia, but still, he failed to win against Usyk and he had a break down after the fight.

So this is very important for him, although he did get a new trainer, but still as the first round starts, it will be just him and Dillian Whyte. And it's going to be more mental for Joshua here rather than physical. He might be in the best shape of his life, but if his minds has started to doubt that he can win, then it won't help him here, IMHO.

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Quote from: aioc on July 20, 2023, 10:47:15 AM

They have gone to a lot after their first meeting, Joshua back then was so great and on top of the world he commanded respect and people thought he was invincible until that 3 losses, those losses exposed him, and because of this Dillian Whyte will take this opportunity to put all these demons in Joshua mind, Whyte knows that Joshua wants this fight and he is here to spoil everything, he knows that Joshua will try to put up a great fight so he can challenge Fury and Wilder for a big fight.

Anthony Joshua is really in a good shape and frame of mind ahead of this fight, the fact that he has a new trainer is really helping him into the right shape and frame of mind for the fight. Anthony may not be able to be his best like we saw in his prime, but he can fight better than he did in his last three fights. And for the same reasons that he knows how important this fight is, he will take it seriously and not give Dillian any chance to stop him from his target of getting through to the next fight against Fury.

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Quote from: Questat on July 20, 2023, 09:43:46 AM

Quote from: Yatsan on July 19, 2023, 11:20:55 AM

However, I won't underestimate Joshua's KO rate which should be a threat to white. Will definitely be exciting to watch.

Definitely, AJ has more KO wins than Dillian Whyte, but the latter has more overall wins compared to AJ. It's just that AJ is more popular than Dillian Whyte, so it's understandable why the majority of the fans believe AJ will win.

As for their KO records from BoxRec, Dillian Whyte is 19/29, while AJ is 22/25, so it's very obvious that AJ has an edge.

They have gone to a lot after their first meeting, Joshua back then was so great and on top of the world he commanded respect and people thought he was invincible until that 3 losses, those losses exposed him, and because of this Dillian Whyte will take this opportunity to put all these demons in Joshua mind, Whyte knows that Joshua wants this fight and he is here to spoil everything, he knows that Joshua will try to put up a great fight so he can challenge Fury and Wilder for a big fight.

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Quote from: Yatsan on July 19, 2023, 11:20:55 AM

However, I won't underestimate Joshua's KO rate which should be a threat to white. Will definitely be exciting to watch.

Definitely, AJ has more KO wins than Dillian Whyte, but the latter has more overall wins compared to AJ. It's just that AJ is more popular than Dillian Whyte, so it's understandable why the majority of the fans believe AJ will win.

As for their KO records from BoxRec, Dillian Whyte is 19/29, while AJ is 22/25, so it's very obvious that AJ has an edge.

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They have fought twice already with amature and pro matches, and both of them are knockout experts. As we all know, these two came from a loss on their previous fight but that won't be the bottomline. Both fighters have known each other and their fighting styles which for sure could be the factor to come whoever wins this match. A 2-2 and a 3-3 on there previous matches while they're 1:1 on their previous two fights making this match the tie breaker. I'd be betting that Whyte is more eager to pull this one up. He's a more experienced fighter over Joshua. However, I won't underestimate Joshua's KO rate which should be a threat to white. Will definitely be exciting to watch.

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Quote from: inthelongrun on July 06, 2023, 12:11:11 PM

A rematch is coming between former unified champion Anthony Joshua and Dillian Whyte this coming August 12 at the O2 Arena in the UK. Both fighters are rebuilding but the winner might get an eliminator or even a title shot. Whyte was KO'd by Tyson Fury last year for the WBC belt while AJ has a back-to-back defeat at the hands of unified champion Oleksandr Usyk.

AJ will remain a favorite in this fight but we better not count out Whyte. AJ is a completely changed fighter which is something Whyte can capitalize on. If AJ continues to try to box, not letting his hands go and Whyte is well-conditioned conditioned for a full fight then it will be a very exciting one. AJ might also get his confidence back knowing he already TKO'd Whyte when both of them are still unbeaten.

I think this anticipated match is going to be very interesting and since it would be held in the UK at the O2 arena it's going to entertaining a lot of fans around the world, I wish I would be opportuned to view it live at the stadium, however it's going to be a tough one for both AJ and whyte both has suffered great loses and would want to prove themselves again, and many would stake on AJ because he's the fan favourite and they feel he'll want to use this opportunity to get back to glory days after being defeated twice by Usyk.

Of course it's not right to count out Whyte because he could try to capitalise of Joshua's loses against Usky which caused him some emotional breakdown and also try to revenge his defeat in Dec 12, 2015 when he was TKO'd by Joshua but after a comeback win against Jeramin Franklin this April I think Joshua is fully fit and ready to go back to the glory days and only time will tell if we should expect another TKO by Anthony Joshua.

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Quote from: electronicash on July 15, 2023, 05:49:14 AM

Quote from: btc_angela on July 14, 2023, 11:25:51 PM

Quote from: coin-investor on July 14, 2023, 05:41:41 PM

Quote from: Kemarit on July 14, 2023, 07:11:23 AM

Perhaps it was just the circumstances that Dillian Whyte was given another crack of Joshua here. As others have said, it's a faded version of Joshua now but Eddie Hearn needs to find a opponent that can bring back Joshua's confident so Dillian Whyte is a perfect fit for it. Maybe a trilogy can happen, or maybe if Joshua losses here then there's no more Wilder for him in the horizon or even Tyson Fury and it could be over for him. Or least he is now considered just a B-level fighter and just looking for payday before he retires.

Whyte is someone who can bring back Joshua in contention or could possibly bring him to retirement so Joshua better be at his best Whyte can still deliver a big surprise, if ever he beats Joshua there could be a trilogy but Joshua will be out of contention and it's going to be a hard climb we have many faces in the heavyweight division that wants to have a crack on the titles held by Fury and Usyk and a loss from Whyte will shut him out, Dubois, Zhang, and Joyce are those up and coming names.

And maybe bring the best of Joshua as well? Because they have fought already and Joshua win via knockout on the 7th round.

So there might be a big possibility that Joshua is thinking the same, and it he can do that definitely his confidence is back. Yes, they are still in the top echelon of the HW right now. But there are a lot of incoming boxers as well.

Don't forget about Andy Ruiz, he is still very much active and we all know that he dealt Joshua his first lost. Him and Wilder are supposed to fight, but not sure what happens behind the negotiation.

it's not in AJ's interest anymore to fight Wilder. he isn't what he was anymore after Ruiz fight. he will be a good training match for Ngannou if he likes but he will retire win or lose against Whyte. there are great undercard fights though like Mckean and Fisher. it should be a good prospect to bet on.

But if I'm not mistaken, he still wanted to fight Wilder after this one. And that is why others say that this is just a tune up fight for him because there is something being cooked maybe in December or early next year for Joshua vs Wilder and then Fury vs Usyk.

All of them have fights already in the horizon, although Wilder and Ruiz Jr is not yet set up or in the process of negotiation. So there is a big possibility that this HW fights might be setup by Eddie Hearn later.

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Quote from: electronicash on July 15, 2023, 05:49:14 AM

...there are great undercard fights though like Mckean and Fisher. it should be a good prospect to bet on.

I am expecting another KO win by Johnny Fisher. The main supporting event is what made me curious. I say a lot of guts there by Demsey McKean for taking the fight and many fans are even believing that he can pull a win over The Animal. Props to him for taking this fight but I really doubt there is anyone in boxing right now that can beat Filip especially when he is at his best, except Usyk and Fury which I believe are all 50/50 fights if the bouts are in neutral places. If McKean will be allowed by the referee to bring his dirty tactics, he may survive and bring the fight to a decision but if the referee will make the fight clean, Hrgovic should easily destroy him or put a boxing clinic.

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Quote from: btc_angela on July 14, 2023, 11:25:51 PM

Quote from: coin-investor on July 14, 2023, 05:41:41 PM

Quote from: Kemarit on July 14, 2023, 07:11:23 AM

Perhaps it was just the circumstances that Dillian Whyte was given another crack of Joshua here. As others have said, it's a faded version of Joshua now but Eddie Hearn needs to find a opponent that can bring back Joshua's confident so Dillian Whyte is a perfect fit for it. Maybe a trilogy can happen, or maybe if Joshua losses here then there's no more Wilder for him in the horizon or even Tyson Fury and it could be over for him. Or least he is now considered just a B-level fighter and just looking for payday before he retires.

Whyte is someone who can bring back Joshua in contention or could possibly bring him to retirement so Joshua better be at his best Whyte can still deliver a big surprise, if ever he beats Joshua there could be a trilogy but Joshua will be out of contention and it's going to be a hard climb we have many faces in the heavyweight division that wants to have a crack on the titles held by Fury and Usyk and a loss from Whyte will shut him out, Dubois, Zhang, and Joyce are those up and coming names.

And maybe bring the best of Joshua as well? Because they have fought already and Joshua win via knockout on the 7th round.

So there might be a big possibility that Joshua is thinking the same, and it he can do that definitely his confidence is back. Yes, they are still in the top echelon of the HW right now. But there are a lot of incoming boxers as well.

Don't forget about Andy Ruiz, he is still very much active and we all know that he dealt Joshua his first lost. Him and Wilder are supposed to fight, but not sure what happens behind the negotiation.

it's not in AJ's interest anymore to fight Wilder. he isn't what he was anymore after Ruiz fight. he will be a good training match for Ngannou if he likes but he will retire win or lose against Whyte. there are great undercard fights though like Mckean and Fisher. it should be a good prospect to bet on.

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Quote from: coin-investor on July 14, 2023, 05:41:41 PM

Quote from: Kemarit on July 14, 2023, 07:11:23 AM

Perhaps it was just the circumstances that Dillian Whyte was given another crack of Joshua here. As others have said, it's a faded version of Joshua now but Eddie Hearn needs to find a opponent that can bring back Joshua's confident so Dillian Whyte is a perfect fit for it. Maybe a trilogy can happen, or maybe if Joshua losses here then there's no more Wilder for him in the horizon or even Tyson Fury and it could be over for him. Or least he is now considered just a B-level fighter and just looking for payday before he retires.

Whyte is someone who can bring back Joshua in contention or could possibly bring him to retirement so Joshua better be at his best Whyte can still deliver a big surprise, if ever he beats Joshua there could be a trilogy but Joshua will be out of contention and it's going to be a hard climb we have many faces in the heavyweight division that wants to have a crack on the titles held by Fury and Usyk and a loss from Whyte will shut him out, Dubois, Zhang, and Joyce are those up and coming names.

And maybe bring the best of Joshua as well? Because they have fought already and Joshua win via knockout on the 7th round.

So there might be a big possibility that Joshua is thinking the same, and it he can do that definitely his confidence is back. Yes, they are still in the top echelon of the HW right now. But there are a lot of incoming boxers as well.

Don't forget about Andy Ruiz, he is still very much active and we all know that he dealt Joshua his first lost. Him and Wilder are supposed to fight, but not sure what happens behind the negotiation.

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Quote from: Kemarit on July 14, 2023, 07:11:23 AM

Perhaps it was just the circumstances that Dillian Whyte was given another crack of Joshua here. As others have said, it's a faded version of Joshua now but Eddie Hearn needs to find a opponent that can bring back Joshua's confident so Dillian Whyte is a perfect fit for it. Maybe a trilogy can happen, or maybe if Joshua losses here then there's no more Wilder for him in the horizon or even Tyson Fury and it could be over for him. Or least he is now considered just a B-level fighter and just looking for payday before he retires.

Whyte is someone who can bring back Joshua in contention or could possibly bring him to retirement so Joshua better be at his best Whyte can still deliver a big surprise, if ever he beats Joshua there could be a trilogy but Joshua will be out of contention and it's going to be a hard climb we have many faces in the heavyweight division that wants to have a crack on the titles held by Fury and Usyk and a loss from Whyte will shut him out, Dubois, Zhang, and Joyce are those up and coming names.

Topic: Boxing: Anthony Joshua vs Robert Helenius (replacement) - page 4. (Read 845 times)