[Boxing] Canelo vs Golovkin 3 (September 17) - page 19.

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Quote from: Yamifoud on August 27, 2022, 07:04:01 AM

Quote from: inthelongrun on August 27, 2022, 06:24:11 AM

Ring generalship, effective aggressiveness, and defense are always mentioned as huge factors in scoring a fight because they lead to successful punches and counter punches. And if a round is somehow at a tie then the aggressor should win. Most of the time, the aggressor is the ring general and the one that controls the tempo of the fight. Fighters like Floyd Mayweather may not be aggressive but due to his superb defense, most aggressors aren't that effective causing Floyd to successfully counter-punches.

I agree with this, but this fight, both are aggressive and yet there's no knockout happening. The first fight result in a draw, but in the 2nd fight Canelo won the judges despite the fact that it's a very close fight and some thought GGG got the win. In the end, it's still on the hands of the judges as they have the final say on the result of the fight, the only reason we have a trilogy is because the fans ask for it, and that would result to good money for the boxers and the promoters.

That's a better reason, hopefully, all promoters and fighters will answer the request of the fans and make it happen. Boxing is entertainment, it will not succeed without the support of the fans, so we should be the boss here, actually, this fight should have happened a long time ago.

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Quote from: inthelongrun on August 27, 2022, 06:24:11 AM

Ring generalship, effective aggressiveness, and defense are always mentioned as huge factors in scoring a fight because they lead to successful punches and counter punches. And if a round is somehow at a tie then the aggressor should win. Most of the time, the aggressor is the ring general and the one that controls the tempo of the fight. Fighters like Floyd Mayweather may not be aggressive but due to his superb defense, most aggressors aren't that effective causing Floyd to successfully counter-punches.

I agree with this, but this fight, both are aggressive and yet there's no knockout happening. The first fight result in a draw, but in the 2nd fight Canelo won the judges despite the fact that it's a very close fight and some thought GGG got the win. In the end, it's still on the hands of the judges as they have the final say on the result of the fight, the only reason we have a trilogy is because the fans ask for it, and that would result to good money for the boxers and the promoters.

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Quote from: TimeTeller on August 25, 2022, 06:08:07 PM

Quote from: Yogee on August 25, 2022, 05:40:26 PM

I'm not gonna lie that the "competitiveness" criteria caught me by surprise. I seriously do not understand why a judge should score based on that. I mean that's kinda adding emotion into the bout and judges should be looking at it objectively right?

This is why there were some boxing fights that the audience felt they were cheated by the judges' scores.
Maybe it was owed to that criteria, "competitiveness", where audience is neglecting this factor.
And we may see this factor an important one, when the boxer wins via split decision or even by UD.
I believe, the boxers also knew those criteria. This is why some are playing safe inside the ring.

Well right now, there is actually no single universally accepted specific rule as to how to score a boxing match. The author mentioned some that I never heard of but as I said there is no such thing as a specific rule so a judge can score fights depending on his standards and beliefs on how to win fights. I also tried to become a boxing judge when I was in college. To make it simple, the fighter that lands most should win. But we also consider the quality of the punches. 10 jabs should be the equivalent to 5 power shots. But some fighters like GGG have lethal jabs so it depends on the judge how it interprets the kind of shots. The impact of punches also matters.

Ring generalship, effective aggressiveness, and defense are always mentioned as huge factors in scoring a fight because they lead to successful punches and counter punches. And if a round is somehow at a tie then the aggressor should win. Most of the time, the aggressor is the ring general and the one that controls the tempo of the fight. Fighters like Floyd Mayweather may not be aggressive but due to his superb defense, most aggressors aren't that effective causing Floyd to successfully counter-punches.

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Quote from: Sithara007 on August 26, 2022, 10:59:32 PM

Just 20 days to go!!!

I can't really believe that I waited so long (4 years) for this fight to happen. Could have happened in 2019, but then Canelo gave some silly excuse to delay it. Anyway, I hope that this time we will get an outcome without much controversies. And this is going to be the last fight from this franchise, and there will never be a GGG vs Canelo 4. And that is also the reason why I want to have a clear outcome from this match.

Possible outcomes:

1. Canelo KO Golovkin - low probability, but possible
2. Canelo UD Golovkin - highest probability
3. Canelo SD Golovkin - high probability
4. Golovkin SD Canelo - moderate probaility
5. Golovkin UD Canelo - moderate probaility
6. Golovkin KO Canelo - almost impossible

I would choose Golovkin to win via a split decision. That would make the fans happy, and of course, it could be a controversial fight that might result in another big fight. KO really has the lowest probability here as we had already witnessed the last two fights, and no one was even get knocked down.

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Just 20 days to go!!!

I can't really believe that I waited so long (4 years) for this fight to happen. Could have happened in 2019, but then Canelo gave some silly excuse to delay it. Anyway, I hope that this time we will get an outcome without much controversies. And this is going to be the last fight from this franchise, and there will never be a GGG vs Canelo 4. And that is also the reason why I want to have a clear outcome from this match.

Possible outcomes:

1. Canelo KO Golovkin - low probability, but possible
2. Canelo UD Golovkin - highest probability
3. Canelo SD Golovkin - high probability
4. Golovkin SD Canelo - moderate probaility
5. Golovkin UD Canelo - moderate probaility
6. Golovkin KO Canelo - almost impossible

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Quote from: Jawhead999 on August 20, 2022, 10:06:58 AM

Quote from: Kemarit on August 19, 2022, 09:55:36 PM

Yes, that will be the smart move, 160/168 lbs might be suitable for him for now, as there are no fighter in that division that can bring Canelo more millions. 175 is very different, Bivol as we saw how Canelo got destroyed and then Beterviev, another one of those champions that is very big for Canelo and has a bigger puncher power than Bivol. Maybe he will let this two fight first and the winner will be Canelo's target for the belt and obviously it's for the money.

But if Canelo is only stay on super middleweight division, he wouldn't learn and improve himself to become the best boxers. I think Canelo is a challenger person and want to become a GOAT just like Pacquiao, he's not like Mayweather who only looking for money and his clean record.

While without a doubt that is important, Canelo is probably also thinking about the money, if he stays in his current division then it is very likely that he is going to be the very best for a very long time, maybe until he reaches retirement age.

However the fans are not going to be very interested in watching Canelo fight against fighters that we know are below him, so the only way for him to get more challenges and as such to earn more money will be by moving up a division and trying to become a champion in that division as well, now it may be harder than what Canelo thought as his defeat against Bivol exemplifies, but I think it is something he must do.

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Quote from: Hypnosis00 on August 25, 2022, 10:19:56 AM

Quote from: BitcoinPanther on August 25, 2022, 09:29:09 AM

One sure thing for GGG to win is to knock out Canelo but Canelo is a tough guy so it is really a hard task.

That's obviously hard, that's the reason why he is a heavy underdog, and we know that once this fight goes to the judges' scorecards, Canelo will likely win and that would result to ending their rivalry as no way they'll fight again, the only way they could fight is if GGG will upset Canelo.

That is quite ugly if that will happen again but I think we cannot even prevent that thing from happening because Canelo or anyone in his camp that is pulling some strings would also find his way to get their connections so that Canelo will have the higher hand when it comes to the judge's decision. It's true that GGG needs to defeat Canelo by a way of TKO/KO so that he can prevent the judges from helping the latter but that's a tough job to pull especially now that he is not that fast anymore compared to their first 2 fights.

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Quote from: Sithara007 on August 25, 2022, 09:14:19 PM

Quote from: harizen on August 25, 2022, 06:31:03 PM

I understand the picture but if we look at the first match of GGG and Canelo - the latter got a 118-110 from one of the judges where the fight is seen as tight and close. Other judges gives a close score and the result ended up in a Split draw. That's why regardless of what the audiences felt, the result is obviously questionable. That 118-110 is considered a ridiculous score in a close match.

That's the reason why a rematch and a trilogy was being demanded by most boxing enthusiast.

There was so much anger among the fans when they heard about the 118-110 scorecard from Adelaide Byrd that she was forced to retire from scoring in boxing matches. But the damage was already done. The outcome of the match was given as a "draw" and it can't be changed. Golovkin was robbed of a win. And although there was a lot of noise from the fans, the organizers have refused to make any drastic changes. The same thing repeated with the Canelo vs Bivol fight, when the judges scored several rounds to Canelo despite Bivol clearly dominating them.

Canelo is a money-making fighter in this sport and we know how money can talk a loud during his fight, but moving forward, the trilogy will be another good fight that we will anticipate seeing a toe-to-toe exchanges of solid combinations. GGG now has his chance to reclaim the title after being robbed and bing defeated, if he can stand still and give Canelo another same hype of a fight.

Fans will enjoy whatever the outcome will be, trilogy gives them a chance to support again the former champ.

He's on the attempt to reclaim what's originally he owned. Good luck!

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Quote from: harizen on August 25, 2022, 06:31:03 PM

I understand the picture but if we look at the first match of GGG and Canelo - the latter got a 118-110 from one of the judges where the fight is seen as tight and close. Other judges gives a close score and the result ended up in a Split draw. That's why regardless of what the audiences felt, the result is obviously questionable. That 118-110 is considered a ridiculous score in a close match.

That's the reason why a rematch and a trilogy was being demanded by most boxing enthusiast.

There was so much anger among the fans when they heard about the 118-110 scorecard from Adelaide Byrd that she was forced to retire from scoring in boxing matches. But the damage was already done. The outcome of the match was given as a "draw" and it can't be changed. Golovkin was robbed of a win. And although there was a lot of noise from the fans, the organizers have refused to make any drastic changes. The same thing repeated with the Canelo vs Bivol fight, when the judges scored several rounds to Canelo despite Bivol clearly dominating them.

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Quote from: Sithara007 on August 24, 2022, 09:20:45 PM

Quote from: goinmerry on August 24, 2022, 02:40:56 PM

If we refer on GGG's last fight against Murata, there's no aggressiveness on GGG on the early rounds. Lots of punches being thrown successfully by Murata and all those are good shots. There was even lots of solid punches that Murata gave on GGG during the first few rounds.

While the fight is progressing, GGG now slowly get back on track and becomes beast mode. Murata can't answer now and that leads for GGG to a knock out win at Round 9. That proves that GGG still has the strength and power to end the fight in a KO Victory.

But that situation shouldn't be applied against Canelo. Every rounds count and matters if fighting against Canelo in scorecard.

You can't compare Murata with Canelo. The latter is at an entirely different level. When was the last time Canelo got KO-ed? Even his loss against Floyd Mayweather Jr. back in 2013 was not from KO, but from majority decision. Golovkin is the king of knockouts, but I don't think that he has much of a chance to repeat that against Canelo. Anyway, I agree with the prediction. Canelo is likely to win the initial rounds. I expect Golovkin to make a comeback from 4th round onwards. But it needs to be seen whether he can win 7 out of the 12 rounds (especially with the judges being biased towards Canelo).

Can you point out where is the part where I compare Murata and Canelo?
Can you even read the quoted part about why my reply is like that?

You even disregard the last statement of my post where I said the situation that happened during GGG vs Murata shouldn't be applied against Canelo where GGG allows some punches to be thrown at him in the early rounds. That's suicide for GGG if that happened against Canelo.

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Quote from: TimeTeller on August 25, 2022, 06:08:07 PM

This is why there were some boxing fights that the audience felt they were cheated by the judges' scores.
Maybe it was owed to that criteria, "competitiveness", where audience is neglecting this factor.
And we may see this factor an important one, when the boxer wins via split decision or even by UD.
I believe, the boxers also knew those criteria. This is why some are playing safe inside the ring.

I understand the picture but if we look at the first match of GGG and Canelo - the latter got a 118-110 from one of the judges where the fight is seen as tight and close. Other judges gives a close score and the result ended up in a Split draw. That's why regardless of what the audiences felt, the result is obviously questionable. That 118-110 is considered a ridiculous score in a close match.

That's the reason why a rematch and a trilogy was being demanded by most boxing enthusiast.

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Quote from: Yogee on August 25, 2022, 05:40:26 PM

I'm not gonna lie that the "competitiveness" criteria caught me by surprise. I seriously do not understand why a judge should score based on that. I mean that's kinda adding emotion into the bout and judges should be looking at it objectively right?

This is why there were some boxing fights that the audience felt they were cheated by the judges' scores.
Maybe it was owed to that criteria, "competitiveness", where audience is neglecting this factor.
And we may see this factor an important one, when the boxer wins via split decision or even by UD.
I believe, the boxers also knew those criteria. This is why some are playing safe inside the ring.

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Quote from: serjent05 on August 25, 2022, 03:40:35 PM

Quote from: Daltonik on August 25, 2022, 12:47:11 PM

Unfortunately, in the first two fights, GGG lost the last rounds if he managed to finish with an advantage in the upcoming third match and apply more power punches, not just jabs, then he would have a chance to win.

But the thing is the fight is composed of several rounds, not just the last round. Besides connecting with jobs also gives a boxer a score. But well yeah some judges prefer heavy punches and score the round to a person who lands more heavy blows than the person who lands more jabs. But in case heavy punches are not connecting, the person who can connect jobs can win the round. Other judges score the bout according to the volume of punches that connect, may it be jab or heavy punches. So I do not think that there is a problem with using jabs if it overwhelms the opponent. And many believe that GGG was robbed in the first fight.

I got curious with the topic so I tried to look around. I found this article on how fights are scored from the point of view of a judge
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/queensberry-rules-boxing-blog/2019/jan/02/boxing-judge-scoring-528-fights

Here's the quick guide,

Quote

Quality blow

Punch connects with the knuckle surface of the glove
Punch is thrown with the weight of the body or shoulder
Punch must connect in the correct (scoring) area of the body
Punch connects cleanly (not picked, parried, or blocked)
Punch connects while not infringing on the rules
Judge must have clear vision of the punch
It’s important to note that hitting the opponent’s arms or gloves is not a quality blow and a judge may never assume anything if a fighter has their back turned.

Technical and tactical superiority

Causes opponent to miss and makes them vulnerable to punches
Throws effective counter punches and stands the opponent off
Controls the ring and pace of action – ring generalship
Neutralises the style and type of boxer
Throws and lands body punches
Displays superior defence (blocking, slipping, weaving, good footwork)
Follows rules

Domination of the round

Takes and maintains role of “effective aggressor”
Controls the round with a combination of attack and defence; scores cleanly while defending against counterpunching
Forces the action and sets the tempo of the round

Competitiveness

Refuses to give up
Loses the previous round yet comes back stronger
Suffers knockdown in previous round yet comes back stronger
Understands when their strategy didn’t work and adjusts

I'm not gonna lie that the "competitiveness" criteria caught me by surprise. I seriously do not understand why a judge should score based on that. I mean that's kinda adding emotion into the bout and judges should be looking at it objectively right?

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Quote from: Daltonik on August 25, 2022, 12:47:11 PM

Unfortunately, in the first two fights, GGG lost the last rounds if he managed to finish with an advantage in the upcoming third match and apply more power punches, not just jabs, then he would have a chance to win.

But the thing is the fight is composed of several rounds, not just the last round. Besides connecting with jobs also gives a boxer a score. But well yeah some judges prefer heavy punches and score the round to a person who lands more heavy blows than the person who lands more jabs. But in case heavy punches are not connecting, the person who can connect jobs can win the round. Other judges score the bout according to the volume of punches that connect, may it be jab or heavy punches. So I do not think that there is a problem with using jabs if it overwhelms the opponent. And many believe that GGG was robbed in the first fight.

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Quote from: carlisle1 on August 24, 2022, 08:57:45 PM

Quote from: goinmerry on August 24, 2022, 02:40:56 PM

Quote from: LittleBitFunny on August 24, 2022, 11:32:53 AM

The problem is I don't think being aggressive from the start is the nature of GGG and probably it could be a problem if he tries that. But if he also takes too much time to set the pace, Canelo is going to try to take advantage of that as well because he scores points often in the later part. So, GGG will have to approach with caution. He can be aggressive but he will have to be careful so that he does not get too aggressive and let his guard down. Because he can get countered and knocked onto the canvas.

If we refer on GGG's last fight against Murata, there's no aggressiveness on GGG on the early rounds. Lots of punches being thrown successfully by Murata and all those are good shots. There was even lots of solid punches that Murata gave on GGG during the first few rounds.

While the fight is progressing, GGG now slowly get back on track and becomes beast mode. Murata can't answer now and that leads for GGG to a knock out win at Round 9. That proves that GGG still has the strength and power to end the fight in a KO Victory.

But that situation shouldn't be applied against Canelo. Every rounds count and matters if fighting against Canelo in scorecard.

Yeah, because if GGG will let Alvarez convert solid punches like how he did against Murata, he can suffer with a KO. It's a different

fighter but for sure GGG knew about it since he already fought twice against Alvarez and he almost won, sadly to say that Canelo gain judges

favor and takes fight number 2 while escaping a possible loss during fight number 1. Now, GGG will try his best to bounce back and push for another

one or possible that he can retire with a good revenge against the heavy favorite Alvarez.

That's a heavy challenge for Golovkin's side but I'm sure he can manage because he really waited for this fight to happen, he sure knows what to do and what is the weakness of Canelo as they like you mentioned they already fought twice already but unfortunately Canelo got some help in the said matches.

I'm rooting now for GGG to win because he deserve it also because he's been snatched a win in their 1st fight, now even if the odds is really against him, I'll gladly support him.

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Quote from: Daltonik on August 25, 2022, 12:47:11 PM

Unfortunately, in the first two fights, GGG lost the last rounds if he managed to finish with an advantage in the upcoming third match and apply more power punches, not just jabs, then he would have a chance to win.

GGG lost the third match but they are preparing well for the next upcoming match. i support them personally and i believe then can win in the next upcoming match . If they play with confidence then I think they will have more chances to win.

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Unfortunately, in the first two fights, GGG lost the last rounds if he managed to finish with an advantage in the upcoming third match and apply more power punches, not just jabs, then he would have a chance to win.

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Quote from: chaser15 on August 24, 2022, 12:54:02 PM

Quote from: Yaunfitda on August 24, 2022, 06:13:01 AM

And we will not see the judges involving themselves. But this is unlikely to happen as both fighter have a solid chin a maybe there is no knock down or knock out.

If the fight will end up in Decision, I'm sure Canelo has more likely to win.

There will be no questioned if we will really see that GGG is struggling against Canelo at most rounds and the whole fight is being dominated by Canelo.

Otherwise, GGG needs to do a convincing win on every rounds like Bivol did against Canelo in order for judges to side with GGG. If the fight will end up in a close score, I'm sure judges will favor and side with Canelo. He's a big treasure to protect if you know what I mean.

What do you mean by that big treasure that the judges must protect? Canelo and his camp knows by now that he is watched by the public and by the whole boxing industry because of that help he got by the judges in their 2 previous fights. Other than that, this trilogy must be fair because Canelo already had the advantage while GGG is already past in his prime. Let Canelo himself prove that he's still the dominant in the division without getting some help because GGG would love to give him an entertaining fight, I bet.

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Quote from: BitcoinPanther on August 25, 2022, 09:29:09 AM

One sure thing for GGG to win is to knock out Canelo but Canelo is a tough guy so it is really a hard task.

That's obviously hard, that's the reason why he is a heavy underdog, and we know that once this fight goes to the judges' scorecards, Canelo will likely win and that would result to ending their rivalry as no way they'll fight again, the only way they could fight is if GGG will upset Canelo.

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Quote from: chaser15 on August 24, 2022, 12:54:02 PM

Quote from: Yaunfitda on August 24, 2022, 06:13:01 AM

And we will not see the judges involving themselves. But this is unlikely to happen as both fighter have a solid chin a maybe there is no knock down or knock out.

If the fight will end up in Decision, I'm sure Canelo has more likely to win.

I have the same thought, we have seen the result on their first 2 fights, judges are more favorable to Canelo, I wonder if that controversial female judge in their first fight are going to join the panel of judges Grin

.

Quote from: chaser15 on August 24, 2022, 12:54:02 PM

There will be no questioned if we will really see that GGG is struggling against Canelo at most rounds and the whole fight is being dominated by Canelo.

But the 2 previous fight had some controversy regarding the judges decision since many believe that GGG won that first fight and many are not convinced about Canelo winning the 2nd fight.

Quote from: chaser15 on August 24, 2022, 12:54:02 PM

Otherwise, GGG needs to do a convincing win on every rounds like Bivol did against Canelo in order for judges to side with GGG. If the fight will end up in a close score, I'm sure judges will favor and side with Canelo. He's a big treasure to protect if you know what I mean.

One sure thing for GGG to win is to knock out Canelo but Canelo is a tough guy so it is really a hard task.

Topic: [Boxing] Canelo vs Golovkin 3 (September 17) - page 19. (Read 8975 times)