Topic: [BTC-TC] Deprived Mining Speculation (DMS) - page 45. (Read 198958 times)

That could well explain it.

I've done a news item announcing the motion - which I set to email to all SELLING investors, but not to post as news on the front page (as it would just be spam to anyone not holding SELLING).

This is probably the reason why SELLING investors didn't vote - the email notification was not working for either of CIPHERMINE motions.

Sold   1347
Swapped   0
Total   1347
Price   0.01209
Total   16.28523
Less Fee   16.25265954
Man Fee   0.487579786

BTC Balance (BTC-TC)   1547.659394
9071 LTC-ATF.B1    90.71000000
Coinlenders CD 27/9   201.3930587
Coinlenders CD 12/9   101.7114081
Coinlenders Cash   3.95265895
Just-Dice Balance    246.80000000
TOTAL ASSETS    2,192.22652020
   
Outstanding MINING   181398
Outstanding SELLING   181398
Outstanding PURCHASE   8665
Effective Units   190063
   
Block reward   25
Difficulty   86,933,018
Hashes per MINING   5000000
   
Daily Dividend    0.00002892
50 days (Min Liquid)    0.00144625
100 days (Forced Close)    0.00289249
365 days (Buyback)    0.01055760
405 days (IPO)    0.01171460
400 days (Post SELLING div)    0.01156998
410 days (Pre SELLING div)    0.01185923
   
NAV Post MINING Div    2,186.72895876
NAV/U Post MINING Div    0.01150528
Days Dividend Post Div   397.76
SELLING Dividend    -         
NAV Post SELLING Div    2,186.72895876
NAV/U Post Selling Div    0.01150528
PURCHASE selling price    0.01208
PURCHASE buy-back price    0.01128
   
J-D House profit at report   6143

Nice profit on J-D today - together with the weekly LTC-ATF.B1 dividend that meant NAV/U hardly dropped at all today (it doesn't drop a lot anyway but today it only fell by about 1/3 of the MINING dividend).

The transfer bot wasn't working for a few hours.  Problem was me not the bot - I restarted the computer then when I set the bot running again I accidentally left it in read-only mode (where it doesn't actually send).

Just noticed it whilst auditing prior to dividends/report and have set it running properly again plus got it to process the back-log (there were 4 transfers in that hadn't been processed).

All transfers should now be up to date and the bot's running as usual..

In this case it makes sense, sorry for the misunderstanding!

(just for the sake of argument)
Sure but if you wanted to change the rules you could post a longer vote, as opposite to a short one like this one.

The problem is that if someone doesn't vote, there is no way to tell whether it is because they don't have an opinion on the matter or whether they didn't know a motion was going on. The motions last for only a few days and I can imagine that there's plenty of people that don't check the security page every day.

Noone's compelled to vote again.  And I've never tried to pressure anyone into agreeing with me - just into voting.  If there'd been more NO votes than YES (even if a lot less than 50%) I'd have dropped this one.

The majority of people who voted, voted Yes.  I can't start assuming people who didn't vote meant 'NO' - the most obvious conclusion is they had no interest in the outcome OR weren't around to vote.

My comments on further investment are simply that if there aren't enough active investors willing to vote on motions then there's no point me putting up short-term motions on things which are time-critical.  I'd still put up long motions on things without the same time element - but there just aren't any of those around (Coinlenders was one - as it had unlimited supply of investment at face value so for something like that I could put up a long-term motion).

The real problem is there's a lack of suitable investments - things with a near-guaranteed face-value (in BTC) and where there's good disclosure of what the funds are being used for.  So when such things do show up they tend not to be available for long.
[/quote]

Yes, I accept your explaination, but 2 things you need to know.1. I remember you said" A vote of ABSTAIN indicates you either don't have a strong view or don't care whether DMS invests in CIPHERMINE bonds or not."   that is your word. Am I right? how can you overturn yourself to assume those people just weren't there at that time？ 2. I am really care about your investment, , So I take a time to review the CIPHERMINE's plan. I dont turst her just with general plan And give us word how much devidend we will get. she just talk, cant be trusted. If you find some suitable investments, no matter how much is the devidend. I think more investors will support you, also include me. Anyway,thanks for your explaination. I hope you do think about this investment.

Noone's compelled to vote again.  And I've never tried to pressure anyone into agreeing with me - just into voting.  If there'd been more NO votes than YES (even if a lot less than 50%) I'd have dropped this one.

The majority of people who voted, voted Yes.  I can't start assuming people who didn't vote meant 'NO' - the most obvious conclusion is they had no interest in the outcome OR weren't around to vote.

My comments on further investment are simply that if there aren't enough active investors willing to vote on motions then there's no point me putting up short-term motions on things which are time-critical.  I'd still put up long motions on things without the same time element - but there just aren't any of those around (Coinlenders was one - as it had unlimited supply of investment at face value so for something like that I could put up a long-term motion).

The real problem is there's a lack of suitable investments - things with a near-guaranteed face-value (in BTC) and where there's good disclosure of what the funds are being used for.  So when such things do show up they tend not to be available for long.

Well the contract says "For the first two of these only a simple majority of DMS.SELLING is required".

There's no quorum defined in the contract but in practical terms at least 50% of shares have to vote for a simple majority to be achieved.  No votes, abstains and not voting don't have exactly the same effect.

Abstains reduce the number of Yes votes required - it's a means by which someone can indicate that their shares don't count towards the vote at all.

A large number of NO votes means I abandon whatever was being voted on.  If the same shares didn't vote instead then I'd put the motion back up again (as may have happened here) as there wasn't any indication of opposition to the motion.  So voting NO and not voting has identical impact on the outcome of a motion - but a different impact on how I interpret the results and thus act going forward.

There's no point even discussing changing the voting rules - as that would require a vote to pass by an even larger majority (and not just on SELLING but on MINING as well).   And any change that requires less than a proper majority would need other changes as well - such as defined minimum voting periods (which would have to be significantly longer).

I dont think the way you talk is suitable to your investors ,  It's much more like a Threaten. like if we dont agree with you,we will lose the suitable investments.  Also To my opinion and most company and government did, If a motion of vote to reinvest cant get enough "YES" means disagree, you should not compel us to vote it again.

I am not convinced of their ability to profit as a company, nor of their ability to manage their finances in such a way as to ensure the fulfillment of obligations and expectations of their shareholders and bondholders.

Care to elaborate on what you don't like about CIPHERBOND?

As far as I know, the requirement for a DMS motion to pass is for more than 50% of the shares voting "yes". So a "no" vote, an "abstain" vote or simply not voting all have the same effect.

I'm going to chime in and say that I do not support investing in the CIPHERMINE bonds, but I do support pursuit of relatively safe investments for the coins.

I'm sorry, I know how much it is frustrating when something like that happens :/

How about lowering the quorum?
I mean, lowering it a lot, like 15% instead of 50%.

Furthermore a quorum of 50% is plain wrong, since it splits the "no" votes in "plain no" + "didn't vote", so that if you want to say "no", you have to game the system and try to guess if it's better not to vote or to vote "no".

I didn't receive an email notification for either of the CIPHERMINE motions. Can't remember whether I got one for the JD & CL motions a while back.

The last time you did this (with J-D), I received an email from BTCT; this time a few days with CIPHERMINE, however, I didn't get one. My have just been an issue on my end; however, you may want to check and ensure shareholders are getting those motion notification emails.

The motion to allow investment in CIPHERMINE bonds didn't receive enough votes for an outcome to be determined (although a clear majority of those voted went for YES it needs to break the 50% mark to be a valid result).  Basically there wasn't a valid quorum.

I've put the motion up again for slightly longer this time - but if the majority of investors aren't around then obviously it'll not receive sufficient votes again.  In which case at least I know not to spend time trying to find investment opportunities (suitable investments are generally not going to available at face price for too long - so leaving a motion up for weeks isn't a viable option).

Sold   250
Swapped   0
Total   250
Price   0.01212
Total   3.03
Less Fee   3.02394
Man Fee   0.0907182

BTC Balance (BTC-TC)   1536.794144
9071 LTC-ATF.B1    90.71000000
Coinlenders CD 27/9   201.271302
Coinlenders CD 12/9   101.6465035
Coinlenders Cash   3.95043354
Just-Dice Balance    244.82000000
TOTAL ASSETS    2,179.19238306
   
Outstanding MINING   180154
Outstanding SELLING   180154
Outstanding PURCHASE   8562
Effective Units   188716
   
Block reward   25
Difficulty   86,933,018
Hashes per MINING   5000000
   
Daily Dividend    0.00002892
50 days (Min Liquid)    0.00144625
100 days (Forced Close)    0.00289249
365 days (Buyback)    0.01055760
405 days (IPO)    0.01171460
400 days (Post SELLING div)    0.01156998
410 days (Pre SELLING div)    0.01185923
   
NAV Post MINING Div    2,173.73378352
NAV/U Post MINING Div    0.01151855
Days Dividend Post Div   398.22
SELLING Dividend    -         
NAV Post SELLING Div    2,173.73378352
NAV/U Post Selling Div    0.01151855
PURCHASE selling price    0.01209
PURCHASE buy-back price    0.01129
   
J-D House profit at report   5689

I'd just like to remind all SELLING holders that the vote on whether or not to approve CIPHERMINE bonds for investment ends today.

At present only a minority of investors have voted at all.  If you don't want to approve it for investment (I know some don't want to invest at all - which is a perfectly valid stance) then vote NO.  If you don't care either way then Abstain.  And if you want to approve it as a valid investment then vote YES.

But please vote - as I don't want to have to keep putting the motion back up until it finally gets settled one way or the other (or it becomes irrelevant).