Topic: Butterflylabs Huge SCAM - page 10. (Read 415660 times)

That's not really a check Bruno. The scanner thingy reads the account number and instantly electronically debits your account. If you don't have money in the account the scan fails.

Walmart still does. They take the check from you, put it through some scanner thingy which spits it back out in ~1 second, then the teller hands the check back to you along with the receipt. The entire process takes ~5 seconds. 10 seconds if the teller has an attitude. 15 seconds if the teller is a space cadet. 20 seconds if the teller is also a manger.

Best Buy doesn't accept personal checks, almost no one does anymore. How old are you anyway, grandpa? lol

So? Checks can be forged, stolen, washed, etc. They're extremely unreliable.

No they aren't. Checks are ran electronically these days my friend. The process is no different than a check card. If the funds are not there, they know it instantly.

Why not? They accept personal checks. Those are far easier to commit fraud with than double-spending bitcoin.

They can also use a service like BitPay for instant transactions.

That's true but Bitcoin needs to work much faster before that happens. I doubt Best Buy is willing to do zero confirm transactions for a $2k TV.

If BestBuy accepted bitcoin that situation couldn't occur.

I'm not talking about fiat. I've already said, I don't use fiat. In fact, I don't expect fiat to survive beyond the next two decades. Those types of services are already being researched using a blockchain design. They won't have anything to do with Bitcoin but they will have the most useful features of Bitcoin. Many new information designs will likely use blockchain technology, not just value transfer.

http://blockchainstudies.org
http://insidebitcoins.com/news/visa-begins-blockchain-research-possible-future-integration/34358

You can build credit card like services on top of bitcoin, but you can't build bitcoin like services on top of fiat money. Got it?

No, actually I don't use cash to buy something in other states because I have no way of getting the money to them. I only use cash for small items where cash is more convenient, like for buying coffee. I want some sort of protection when buying costly items even from local large companies. I have used the fraud protection on a credit card to have Best Buy investigated for double charging my card. I got my money back and one of their employees got a jail cell.

There are other very good reasons to use credit cards for large purchases other than just fraud protection. Easy monthly reconciliation, budget tracking, establishing credit history for large loans, easy importing to accounting software like quicken and tax preparation software are all possible with credit/debit accounts. Fraud protection isn't even the best reason to use credit cards but it's a good reason.

Been there, done that. I've gotten bitcoin refunds many times from many places. Even some BFL customers got bitcoin refunds.

Do you never use cash? Cash is just as irreversible as bitcoin. Use cash responsibly. Use bitcoin responsibly.

I keep all my useless BFL hardware in plain site as a constant reminder to never spend BTC on asic pre-orders.

If Sonny, at least, doesn't go back in the slammer for his shenanigans while at Butterfly Labs, then the entire legal system will have failed us IMO.

A lot more of the BFL staff deserve prison time, but my gut is telling me this settlement is going to be totally softball with the Butterfly Labs management getting away without penalties.

I would love to be wrong and have the opportunity to send some post-cards to Josh Zerlan in jail.

But some of them got their money back and PP stopped allowing payments to them. Try that with Bitcoin.

Fraud protection comes with a company department that turns evidence over to police departments. A defendant being charged with credit card fraud is potentially subject to other charges. If a state has other criminal codes for mail fraud, forgery, or fraudulent use of identifying information, then the prosecutor will seek a conviction for every applicable statute. If a defendant tampered with U.S. mail, they also subject themselves to state or federal charges for mail fraud.

On average, minimum jail time for credit card fraud is 3-6 years in prison, while maximum time is 7.5 to 15 years. Some states will put repeat offenders away for up to 20 years.

I'll opt to pay the higher fees because........how many years will BFL executives spend in prison? Zero

The claim that no one would have lost money is false. Many people that used MC/PP still lost their money. There are limits on how long you can reverse those charges, and BFL was great at say "two more weeks" which ends up being many months past the reversal dates.

Those MC/PP "protections" come at a huge cost. Businesses have to raise their prices significantly to deal with the fees and fraud that come with using MC/PP.

Cash also suffers from this same irreversibility issue.

It goes to show sometimes improvements in one aspect are a drawback on another.

yep learned my lesson the hard way on that summer of 2013 ....p/o'd me off so much I did order KNC Jupiter via cc and paypal via amex JUST to get my $$$ back from BFL on the hope I could mine thus to recover it with  KNC equip....was pretty lame goal at the time..I must admit....or so was my 'slim' hope) ....got damn lucky on that brief window of time when FTC started snooping about 3 weeks before they stepped in on BFL and very UNEXPECTEDLY got my 8.3k back 1 year and 20 days later...so my 'bet' via cc and paypal (the correct way to do this) worked...and again damn lucky on the other from BFL....

Also 'unacceptable' here on the forums chewed my ass out in chat...and got me out of the BFL cult...or I'd have been another 4k in with them I think it was...cancelled that the last day I could under paypal....so he saved my butt too...

so FU...BFL Josh and company.... Instead of me  being ahead only 30 BTC total at this point in time  more or less .. .supposedly if you'd delivered even 'modestly late' like other ASIC types (say Aug).. I'm gonna be more or less 110 BTC ahead instead end of life (doorstops) on KNC equip...(Titans)...to wrap up my 'home mining'

(damn I hope Josh lurks on here yet and reads this...I win...and Josh is spending his time wondering how he will look in an 'Orange Jumpsuit')

Funny how life can bite you in the ass when you are a dick!

Goes around comes around huh Josh?

(he has to be reading this thread right....I can't believe his 'ego' would let him not scroll thru here every month or so)

Everyone here preaching the gospel of Bitcoin uses its irreversibility as a key component in the superiority of Bitcoin over other value transfer systems. Companies like BFL prove that irreversibility is a major weakness not a strength. If everyone that purchased from BFL used PayPal or MasterCard to directly pay for their order no one would have lost any money. In fact, the BFL scam would have been cut off from their funding much sooner because PayPal and MasterCard would have refused to allow more payments to them.