Quote
There are a few actually. 80% of companies fall behind of a scheduled release date.
Tesla Motors never fell behind their release date just their shipping volume numbers. They did ship several Model S Sedans in June of 2012.
Quote
Not one thing that you bring up justifies a scam.
This is where we disagree. When I assert to have an ASIC that is ready to ship within a few months that implies I have a working prototype in my lab and I am doing Q&A, resolving software issues and optimizing the product. Fabrication errors and delays can take months to resolve. It is dishonest to assert such optimistic shipping dates when you have no legitimate reason to believe them. Either they are incompetent or simply lied.
Quote
I will agree with you that from what I have read, they should handle them selves better in their responses or don't respond at all. People talk crap about every company that doesn't mean they should go and argue with their customers. Also, if a customer is that un-happy with the company than they should cancel their orders and not give them any of their money again.
When an executive of a company repeatedly calls his customers idiots- especially ones who have patiently waited and have been lied to for months, this conduct is grounds for termination not a "we can do better" response.
Quote
But, coming onto a forum and misusing terminology doesn't hurt the company at all, it makes the person look like an imbecile for misusing terms.
I have been very specific in my terminology. I say they lied in their marketing to gain preorder volume and then continued to accept money for products that cannot exist. The claimed a 1 watt per GH spec and were 6 times out of spec. That is a fact confirmed by two independent reviewers. Furthermore Ars Technica claims the 5 GH unit uses over 50 watts. This kind of per unit variation isn't a good sign for product quality and again supports the claim they are shipping a beta product.
Quote
And I guarantee you at least 70% of the people talking crap about Butterfly labs are people who didn't read the print(which wasn't even in a small font) that said this was a pre-order and maybe should have realized when a product is made for the first time, it's very likely they will run into some difficulties causing delays.
This is why we have kickstarter and other platforms. Risk comes in thresholds. BFL represented their product line as near complete and shipping soon when they started accepting preorders. They continued this representation in November, in January, in March and now today. I can understand and accept delays, but it was fundamentally irresponsible for BFL to claim they could ship when they had no possible way of knowing if it was true.
Quote
Yes, they may have taken pre-orders a little too early. But, I have pre-ordered a product before 3 months before a release date was even announced, which then took a little over one year from the announcement. If people do not like that than they should wait until it's no longer a pre-order.
I'm glad you are comfortable with that risk.
Quote
And I am not being biased as I pre-ordered from Butterfly Labs almost one year ago. I also didn't pay using bitcoins, I paid using a CC that has a protection service on it regardless of how long the process may take. So, yes, I had my doubts as well. But, in no way are they a scam(i know you agreed with this part), not one person has proven a scam. They have all proven a new company running into problems on their first launch.
A company without any transparency, accountability, duty to their customers nor a willingness to answer basic questions like when did you actually have a chip from the fabricator in your labs for testing or how did you come up with the 1 watt per GH claim? A legitimate company would be happy to share these details in the event of such a significant delay. It would give them creditability and show they care about their customers.
Quote
Now, if we wake up one day and the site is gone and they're no longer updating us with information(which they're on their forum). Than we have something to look into. But, at this point, with what people are trying to use to determine a scam, well you may as well call TESLA motors is a scam as well since they're a new company and have only released one shipment of their electric sports car and have the possibility of taking off with all of the pre-order money.
I never took this out of context. Again, your understanding of Tesla Motors is shaky at best. They are not a new company nor had the same business practices as BFL. Tesla first sold the roadster under limited distribution and had a direct relationship with their customers. In fact early customers could call Elon Musk directly if there were issues with their cars. When they scaled up to the Model S, they first spent years building the Freemont facility and developing proof of concept vehicles before accepting preorder money.
The preorders were reservations and were only a fraction of the price of the car. At the same time Tesla was accepting preorders they were pursuing an IPO and being vetting by hundreds of independent financial entities, their books were being reviewed by the SEC and an underwriting bank.
Furthermore, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twC1d-HEfJw. That is the man you are equating with BFL's business practices. He just voluntarily pierced the corporate veil. Musk is worth over 2.5 billion dollars and he exposed that wealth just to backup his own product. Please leave one of the most innovative and honest companies in the world out of a discussion of BFL. There is a place for the preorder risk BFL exposed the market to it's called Kickstarter.
