Topic: Buy the DIP, and HODL! - page 386. (Read 123433 times)

I had to quote you, just to fix your quote.. because I was not sure from which post you were getting my quote...

As far as my further substantive response, I am not even saying that there is any "best way" to invest in terms of whether you end up being more profitable or less profitable, and even though we frequently like to measure our "level of success" based on how much profits we make, there likely is way more to "success" than mere profit levels, even though maybe I am also somewhat presuming that if you tailor your own investment approach in accordance with your own personal circumstances, then you are likely going to have more profits from that overall, even if it might not have ended up as the most profitable play.

In other words, we can look back and see that we could have done x, y or z, and we could have been more profitable, but merely being able to see an alternative course that would have ended up being more profitable, at the time, that we make our decisions about what to do and how to employ our capital, we don't know the future, so hopefully, we are attempting to protect ourselves from a variety of possible scenarios both to the upside and to the downside.

That is why it is advisable to have a source of income before someone starts his Bitcoin accumulation journey so that the person will have what to depend on to take care of his financial challenges and not sell his Bitcoin even when he is at a loss.
Buying back Bitcoin after you sell it, will be expensive and you will be on less profits compared to the person holding Bitcoin for the long term. For instance, you accumulated 0.01 BTC when Bitcoin was at $25k and you sold now that Bitcoin is at $43k, taking a profit of $180. If you want to accumulate that same amount of 0.01 BTC it will cost you more money because Bitcoin has reached where it will keep an up trend in price, and your patience will not allow you to wait for Bitcoin to dip before you can buy again, since Bitcoin is rising in price.

Congratulations for getting into bitcoin at or near the bottom of this particular cycle, and surely anyone who has been investing into bitcoin fairly consistently and/or aggressively within about the last 18 months or so will currently be sitting fairly pretty in terms of the profitability of their BTC holdings.

At the same time, any of you guys starting in bitcoin in the last couple of years are still babies in terms of you bitcoin longevity and your potential ability to actually demonstrate abilities to survive well through good times and bad times.. not merely words but also actions... .

So lets see if you can make it through a whole cycle or even a cycle and a half, and don't get me wrong. . I am not trying to bash on the fact that you state your "good intentions" to be a long term BTC Hodler. which is way better to be talking the talk rather than not... so it is a step in the right direction, while at the same time, don't take for granted that if you have a mere 1 year (or perhaps a bit more) experience in investing into bitcoin that you are some kind of a veteran in regards to bitcoin.

On the other hand, I am sure that you came to bitcoin with other life experiences that may more may not be relevant in terms of getting you to the point in which you were able to have enough conviction to start investing in bitcoin towards our most recent local bottom .. which also must have a story, beyond merely getting lucky.. by being in the right place at the right time.. which don't get me wrong, sometimes there is going to be some luck involved too.. and nothing wrong with a bit of luck that does not need to always be attributed towards being some kind of sorcerer in regards to bitcoin's price and/or price direction.


These are all good points.


Your assertion comes off as a bit confused.  Sure, shorter term BTC holders will likely have target sell amounts, and surely some longer term BTC holders will also have sell targets. 

You seem to imply that it is good to have a sell target, even if you are longer term BTC holder, but you personally don't have a sell target because you want to see the price go up first to be able to figure that part out... as if you need to establish selling points.. which you do not have to establish selling points, even though you can decide to sel off various parts of your BTC holdings at various price points, but you do not need to figure out selling your BTC if you do not want to. In other words, it is not necessarily to establish BTC sell points, and you can decide that you are not going to make any plans to sell, but you might still be able to sell small portions at any time that you like, if you want to.

Let's say for example in 2015, you decided that you were going to put $45k into bitcoin, and then you were going to figure out what to do later... such as 10 years or more.  So you ended up buying around 150 BTC for right around $300 each.  At some point along the way, you may well end up changing your plan because you see that your BTC is worth so much, but you do not need to decide to sell it, but instead to just start to shave off 5% or 10% per year based on the 200-week moving average value.. and maybe even you are spending some BTC from time to time, but you still have other income sources because you pretty much ended up getting returns on your BTC that were much greater than you thought and much sooner than you thought.  And, at the same time, there is no need to plan to sell large amounts of BTC at any given time in order to be able to prosper significantly from merely having the BTC, letting it ride and maybe even spending from other sources and/or investments that you have rather than spending your BTC in which you have no reason to believe that it is not going to continue to hold its value better than many other assets, if not most assets, if not all other assets, so why would you want to sell your BTC first? or even why would you conclude that it is part of any necessary strategy to consider selling much if any of your BTC.

Now there is no need to even see that many profits in order to still have a similar kind of mindset, and instead of having an average cost of $300 per BTC, a person might have ended up investing in bitcoin for several years between 2016 and now, and maybe s/he ended up investing more than $60k-$100k into bitcoin and having around $2k - $5k per BTC cost, which would be around 20 BTC (not as good case) to 30 BTC (better case) accumulated.  That person could be in a similar position as the earlier person - even though his/her cost per BTC is much higher and also his/her quantity of BTC is much lower... but such person could still start to consider if s/he might have enough BTC or if there is any need to sell much if any BTC in order to be advantaged by having had accumulated anywhere between 20 BTC and 30 BTC over the past 7 years or so.  Again, there would not necessarily be any need to engage in any kinds of large amounts of selling of BTC in order to be able to prosper tremendously from having the BTC even if there might be considerations that s/he might believe that s/he has enough BTC.  People are different in regards to how much is enough and how to manage their BTC once they believe that they have reached or are close to reaching their BTC accumulation goals.


Michael Saylor?  Is that you?


What is the "specific target?"  Isn't the target moving?  I mean we could have some ideas about how many BTC that we need or that we want, but we might have varying ways to valuate our BTC holdings , such as valuing it in dollars or valuing it in hookers, lambos and blow, or some other ways of valuating our holdings.. so do you think that we are going to know when we get to the target?  or is the target just to get more and more and more.

Actually, earlier in your post you mentioned that you have enough bitcoin, but you still continue to buy more... so why are "we" buying more?  Is the more for a cushion?  or is it that you are not sure if you have enough or not? 

I am not trying to pick on you, but it can also be difficult to suggest that everyone is going to know what their specific target is.. because maybe it is not exactly a specific target but it is a kind of moving target or a kind of target that is somewhat specific, but has to continue to be reassessed, even if "we" might try to mostly stay focused.. such as saying that I want to make it to entry-level fuck you status in today's dollars, and I expect to get there in 5 years or 10 years, but if I don't meet the timeline or the amount is even changing based on how well assets might hold their value in the future as compared to my attempt to predict future value based on present value assessments... or projection of present value into the future.


There is nothing wrong with being flexible, but at the same time having goals.

For example, let's take your forum registration date in December 2016, and let's say that you started out with some loose goals of accumulating BTC, and sure if you were consistent and organized, then after 7 years, and investing around $100 per week, you would have invested around $36.6k and you would have accumulated about 5.7162 BTC, and so there can be quite a few variations on such a theme that is still relatively successful, but at the same time, there may well be points in time that you mix up your practices based on your learnings about BTC, so maybe if you made some mistakes along the way, you learn from the mistakes, so you are likely not just randomly making changes based on loosey goosey standards but based on experience and ongoing attempts at learning along the way.

Of course, you would not necessarily need to stick with DCA, because the extent to which you might stick with DCA might depend upon what you did in the past, and thereby assessing what to do in part based on what you had already done, but if you had made so many mistakes that you did not accumulate much if any BTC over the years, then you might decide to now increase your level of aggressiveness, which could cause you to conclude that DCA is best or maybe you want to front-load by lump summing into BTC or maybe you want to plan to buy on dip or some combination of those - which may well be based on your reassessment of the situation based on where you are at now and if you believe that you might have made mistakes in the past and perhaps attempting to not make similar mistakes, in the event that you had made mistakes in the past.

You are right @JJG. The person who invested in Bitcoin with a lump sum might end up accumulating less Bitcoin Bitcoin because he/she invested in Bitcoin at once and if there is a Bitcoin dip, the person will not have any other money to buy the Bitcoin dip. It is always good to come to this thread to be guided on the best ways to invest in Bitcoin and hold.

This is not greed because you are using the money for something important to you, and it makes no sense to have a lot of money invested and still live an uncomfortable life, possibly borrowing to satisfy your desires. People are advised to invest what they do not want to use right now because of scenarios like this. By doing so, you’ll have a separate savings for urgent needs while making this investment a last option resort. If you have all of this in place, your investment will be safer and will only be withdrawn when you have maximised, taken a lot of profits.


Short-term investors should be prepared to take advantage of the upcoming bull run; even if they purchased at a lower price, the price movement does not indicate that they should sell now. But holding for a long time is required to come with a prepared market mindset. If short-term investors do not have that mindset, they will always take profit when prices reach their desired targets and exit the market immediately. Perhaps this is referred to as risk management, though the risk in bitcoin is already minimal if you are willing to hold for a long time.

Your assumption that everyone has made such mistake is very wrong there are lot of people here in this forum who still holds Bitcoin since when bought about a more or less 10 years ago but haven't sold they Bitcoin due to a well planned investment strategy.

Most people whom are selling for some reasons such as personal issues are likely due to lack of proper planning, it also advised to invest what cannot in anyway affect your standard/cost of living i.e make reservations of extra funds for emergency situations etc to be well prepared for investment.

Some people just wake up and use almost all they have to invest in a business (investment) and when something goes the opposite of their expectations everything crashes all because of lack of planning if you have been reading through this thread you will find out what is required before going into investment. so not everyone is victim of selling their Bitcoin real quick because the have a well planned investment strategy.


Trading Bitcoin is equally gambling and those who gambling stand a chance of 50-50 with it either they loss or win.


Let's think logically, not everyone who is selling their Bitcoin now is a short term investors or whatever you call them, one can actually be selling because they have reached their purchase target and have extra cash reserved instead of having this funds in cash which will depreciated in value due to inflation they (few) sometimes buy the dips and sell in the bull market hence making extra profit whereas the still have their original holdings in their portfolio so it not everyone who is selling is short term investors.

Disclaimer: the example below is an imagination

Let's also put it differently, if you have a purchased up to 50 BTC and you have about a 10k coming into your cash flow you can buy Bitcoin during the dips and sell in bull run take the profit, and fund your lifestyle, travel, go on vacation etc so when you see people sell it may not be because they are short term investor but it maybe for such reason as the example I gave above.

In everything before you go into investment you should at least have some funds that can be used to sort out frequently arising issues such as health etc not with your investment amount like I have said before it usually as a result of lack of proper planning that will cost anyone to sell the holding for such financial reasons.

Even you can buy Bitcoin at anytime it's not guaranteed that you will meet bitcoin at the same price which bought before and like we do say delay is dangerous, you could miss out some opportunities while waiting for the so called price to dip before you buy again.

A long term investment idea is depend on what you have in mind and your target, some do not calculate the future well and they began to sell their bitcoin, what triggers some people who is inquisitive to sell their bitcoin right as bitcoin is increasing is because they believe on the physical increment of bitcoin and they don't make use of chart to know what the future will yield, secondly, their is different between someone who is into long-term Investing and short-term investing, someone who into short-term investing doesn't think of the future it only be interested of making an instant profit whereas long-term Investing somebody is concentrating into the future and that is why a long-term investor keeping holding it bitcoin knowing that bitcoin might keep adding in value and as bitcoin is adding its making a profit

That's a decent thesis to follow, a lot of people have regretted not getting into bitcoin and they're not really that into missing out again if they can help it, plus it's the easiest thesis to follow when it comes to bitcoin investing, all you need is patience to wait for your bitcoin price to come and then buy again when the price starts going down and setting another goal.
Totally agree, not knowing where you stand in something will ultimately be your downfall and in the case of bitcoin investment, neutral or indecisive stance will lead to losses and discouragement from investing in something ever again. If you don't like complications, just follow the first investing thesis since you don't have to work too much in terms of analysis there but do what works best for you.

Those of us who choose Bitcoin for investment are one step ahead of success by investing early. A bitcoin investor is right when it comes to investing for the long term, while an investor in other coins is not right at all because he made a wrong decision early on. If we want to keep our investment safe or if we have a long-term plan with our investment, then we must invest in Bitcoin with a list of Bitcoin preferences. 

An investor should initially think about which coin he is investing in. Before managing a large amount of money for investment, an investor must be confirmed that he is investing in the right coin. It is a wrong decision for an investor to invest in any platform or coin other than Bitcoin. By shortlisting Bitcoin for investment, an investor can invest in Bitcoin at any given time to get a rough idea of the investment. 

You have shown the price chart for October and November here in the price chart, between October and November I think a lot of investors invested in Bitcoin and they sold their investment again after making a small profit. It happened only to some investors but the real investors were never affected by this price change and they held their investments till now.
If the October and November price charts had influenced me, I would have sold the investment instead of increasing my investment again, but I didn't. I already have enough Bitcoin investment but I have increased my investment again hoping for something better and I have enough faith in the investment that I hope that one time I will get a good amount of money return from this investment.

Not every investor has the same patience or courage, you and I have enough patience and courage and have enough faith in the market so that market price changes cannot affect us. Although the temporary price changes of the market cannot sway us, there are some investors who cannot stick to their decisions. There can be various reasons behind an investor not sticking to his decision. Some may be very satisfied with a small amount of profit while some investors may not be able to accept a small amount of loss as they just want to continue to profit from their investment. In one word, you can call successful and true investors who can accept temporary or temporary loss and keep their investment focused on specific target.

People sell rush and sell their coins because of the kind of investment they are into, People who into short term investment probably rush to sell so that they will not lose opportunity to, and people who is into prolong investment will deem it fit to ensure that they have keep their coin until bitcoin reach to a particular amount they wants before selling.

The thing that have to do with bitcoin is that if you don't have target of when you will sell and when not to sell you will think that someone who sold it on time rush to sell, myself I will not sell my bitcoin for now and I can never sell bitcoin because I know that the price of bitcoin is increasing day by day and selling now I might regret my actions and decisions later so it's rather for me to keep my coins and check what 2024 bullrun will yield

Of course, investing in Bitcoin is a long-term investment.  I've been holding on to Bitcoin ever since it hit 15.5K in late 2022, and early 2023.  And till today I invest in Bitcoin following DCA method 2 times a month.  I have been hoarding bitcoins for a long time and it is my dream that I will hoard bitcoins like this for years to come.  I have accumulated bitcoins for 13 long months and will continue to accumulate bitcoins for years to come.  Because I have seen my wallet improve.

That's why everyone is advised not to sell bitcoins after seeing the wallet improve.


A person willing to invest in Bitcoin must have the ability to accept the risk. As an example myself, I was very scared when I started investing in Bitcoin but now that my current wallet is not scared, I don't mind taking a bigger risk. Because I have found that nothing can be achieved in life without taking risks. Because of which risk is always the key to success. Once the risk is taken it will be possible to improve in the future, as I consider myself somewhat successful by investing for a long 13 months.

But we have more positive points because investing in DCA method, of course, on average, the risk is reduced a lot. So this is the best method to invest in Bitcoin.

So that's what is called a big mistake in the investment they made. Everyone has made the mistake of selling too quickly and it was a rash decision they made. I see many who take quick profits when the market moves up recently but it is still difficult for them to find a lower price like the first entry they made. However, there are also those who apply the buy back strategy to increase their BTC holdings from the profits they get.

Especially those who sell quickly are traders and not those who invest in the long term. So it's not surprising that the sell order wall is high because they take profits quickly. I think there are many factors that they might regret their hasty decision to sell because if Bitcoin could close at $50k in the near future then they missed a bigger opportunity to make a bigger profit / and that's just a small example)

For those who can hold longer and continue to buy on dips, they are potential new rich people someday and we have seen the adage that Holding is a winner.

Sure if you have long term investment ideas, then you would likely not be selling any of your bitcoin now, but I doubt that the reason would merely be because you expect profits to be guaranteed in the future, but instead that you had made your investment into bitcoin based on a long term investment thesis and you are not merely thinking about short term profits.

On the other hand, if you come into bitcoin and you do not have solid ideas for what might be your investment thesis, and you might not even know why you like bitcoin except for thinking that it could make you some money, then you likely would be more inclined to sell at various points along the way, and you might not really realize that you could sell in increments, but instead you think about either being in or out, and so it could look very attractive to get 40% to 60% profits in less than a couple of months.


It tends to be a better practice to already have your financial matters in order before you are investing into something like bitcoin, and it may well also apply to a lot of other investments, yet some times people do not plan their investments very well, so they could come across emergency financial circumstances, yet many times those supposed emergency financial circumstances are more likely due to poor financial planning rather than actual financial emergencies.

Another thing, if you sell, you may well be able to buy back in, but you may end up buying back in at a much worse level.  There are quite a few people who sold decently large chucks of their BTC at various points in their bitcoin investment journey and there is almost no way that they can get back to the level of BTC that they previously held... but sure, in terms of dollars, they still might be able to put in as much or even way more than they invested into BTC, but still not get close to the same quantity of BTC.

Even take a fairly basis example of someone who may had been accumulating BTC between 2016 and 2020, and maybe they had some higher priced purchases and some lower price purchases, but overall they had an income in which they could only afford a bit more than $100 BTC per week, so in four years, they were able to invest around $24k and they were able to accumulate around 3 BTC, and so their average cost per BTC is around $8k.  So even if they might have sold some of their BTC at various points in the last few years, and if they are now down to 2 BTC, but they still ONLY have an income in which they are able to buy $100 or maybe $200 BTC per week, they might need more than 10 or 20 years to be able to re-accumulate that 1 BTC that they sold.. depending on what BTC prices do from here forward.

You (Litzki1990) seem to be presuming that the BTC accumulator has accumulated "enough" bitcoin.


It does feel good for any of us to feel that we have a cushion in our investment from our costs per BTC, so the higher we get above our costs per BTC, the more comfortable that we become, but it still can get to be quite frustrating to feel comfortable, even if we have a profit cushion, especially during periods of extensive BTC price dips.. or sometimes we can get frustrated if the BTC goes up.. like now and then it doubles, but then if it ends up getting stuck in a range for a while or even has a couple of 30% to 50% dips along the way, and even if we are still in profits, we still get frustrated from the dips (or the failure of the BTC price to go up).


Can't argue with that.


You are starting to sound as if you are past your BTC accumulation phase Litzki1990, but I still have my doubts that you are that far along, based on your previous posts and your registration date.  Another thing is that there can be a period in which we are starting to feel as if we have enough BTC, but it does not hurt to continue to accumulate BTC, even if we might run into situations in which we cannot accumulate a lot of BTC, we still feel that we mostly have enough BTC in order to be prepared for upside to happen, but if such upside does not end up happening in the near future then we will either just continue to accumulate BTC at a regularly consistent pace, or we might even slow down in our BTC accumulation pace and still feel like we largely have enough BTC.


Part of the problem, is that you do not necessarily know if you will still be able to accumulate as much BTC under each of the strategies.  Sure you might end up investing the same amount of money, but you might not be able to accumulate the same amount of BTC, so frequently, each of us has to decide within the means that we have available, and sometimes we might not even have lump sum available to us, absent having to take out a loan or otherwise put our finances in stress in order to accomplish lump sum... but it still does not mean that lump sum is a bad idea even if carrying out lump sum might end up in certain kinds of tradeoffs, such as financial/psychological stress or even potentially not having as much cash available to buy on dips if dips were to occur after the date of the lump sum injection(s).


I would and I have characterized MSTR's strategy as a form of DCA... because they buy regularly and aggressively with whatever cashflows that they are able to muster up and they pretty much buy at any price... Sure they might be employing a bit of lump sum buying and strategizing about dips, but their regular way of buying that is mostly based on their own cash available is largely a DCA kind of an approach, even if the amounts are larger and somewhat seemingly inconsistent in terms of the amount... but they are mostly consistent in terms of buying pretty steadily for the past nearly 3.5 years.  At some point, we might conjecture that they have enough BTC, but they seem a bit maniacal in terms of their ongoing desire to continue to buy BTC...and they even stated that they are going to continue to buy BTC even if it goes up in price.. which also seems like a DCA approach in terms of whatever they are doing.

Yes I agree with you that many Bitcoin investors lacks patience
When it comes to holding Bitcoin. But I think every investor has his or her greed level. There are people who bought Bitcoin when it dip to $15k earlier this year and set a target that they will sell at $25k while others set a target to sell at $35k. It now becomes difficult for them to keep their Bitcoin once they price enter that region. It's just just a normal thing for short term Holders.

yeah, that's true. A lot of people that sell off their bitcoin at this point do so because of pressing financial challenge that they have to meet up with at the moment. It's actually very difficult to hold your bitcoin at the moment when you are having financial crisis, it's even not reasonable to keep holding your bitcoin when financial crisis comes knocking knowing fully well that you could sell it out to offset your bills. And this is the reason why it's advisable to invest an amount you can afford to leave for a long time without necessarily being moved by any financial challenge that comes along the way.

It's also very necessary not to totally depend on one's holding as a means of wealth creation. That you've accumulated a certain amount of bitcoin shouldn't even be a reason not to go into other business or creating an alternative source of income. If you have an alternative source of income outside of your bitcoin holding, it will save you from unnecessary urge to selling of your holding in cases of unplanned problems.

Much beneficial earned when investing in bitcoin for long term period holding, some investor or holder of bitcoin lack patience make bitcoin as long term investment way and earn more profitable when hold it on long period. Comparison with Bitcoin price on October $25,000 without two months Bitcoin almost raise up 50% latest highest price above $45,000. How much profitable earned when many holder or investor keep patience since invest Bitcoin under $15,000 and keep hold it until today.

Keep in our mind when investing in bitcoin for long term period and earn fantastic achievement in the future when bitcoin success break out new all time high price. No doubt yet with bitcoin price in the future more excited and during hold some bitcoin don't forget keep accumulate how many possible every day, every week or every month.

Yes, expect btc to cross $50k by the end of this month or early January itself.

Bitcoin prices are going to be bright in the future. So everyone should buy Bitcoin. HODL for a long time, never think of selling.

The method use for any individual depends entirely on their cashflow, emotion, schedule and general preference. There is no single method of building Bitcoin portfolio that everyone must adopt. If you can remember, MicroStrategy does not employ the DCA method rather they just buy in bulk when they decide to. This does not mean they are doing it efficiently. On the contrary, there are those who prefer the DCA method, probably because they have a steady cashflow like salary. There is no point saying that these set of people will not make much profits because in implementing the method they chose, they already have a target.

I think those seeing the DCA method as slow or non profit oriented are those eager for quick profits and will readily sell at the sight of reasonable profits whereas those employing the DCA method tend to hold for longer period of time as their intention will be more of buying more even though they can also opt for sell when the need arises.

Basically, there is always a slight adjustment to when dealing with Bitcoin and ways to accumulate more, either applying certain strategies. Even when applying this strategies a person needs to think smart in a state of such dilemma, deploy certain methods outside the box even if it takes to apply another strategy our sole reason of applying strategies is to accumulate Bitcoin in a way we remain convenient without affecting our cost of living.

We never can tell very accurately when is mostly likely for the bull run to begin but i believe what we are experiencing currently should be part of the bull run which is to happen, I consider this as a tip of an iceberg and many more are yet to come.

Setting a goal and achieving it is what a must do, sometimes certain scenarios tends to occur which will limit one's progress, if your initial plan was to accumulate certain amount of Bitcoin but unfortunately Bitcoin increases and the amount of dollars you put in can't match the amount you planned then it becomes an investment on the amount of dollars invested. In this way you measure your success in accumulating Bitcoin

DCAing in Bitcoin is mostly done when the market is kind of stable and slightly volatile or when the person aspiring to accumulate Bitcoin doesn't make enough income and only gets funds in a particular interval, so part is used to DCA. But this is considrarely the best option even for the rich instead of buying in a huge sum at a particular price.
Accumulating during the bear market should be done by purchasing in huge sum, because certainly it is possible to make back x100%, x200%, x300%, x400%. or even more.

The main objective of investing in Bitcoin is to hold it for a long period of time so that good prospects can be achieved. Once you start investing in bitcoins, you should invest for a long time, never for a short period of time. You see (October to December) the price of Bitcoin has changed twice in just two months.
Never covet this benefit, the price of Bitcoin was limited to $25k in October, but the current price has reached $44k by the beginning of December. Double the price of Bitcoin in the span of two months, which will spell doom for you if you sell Bitcoin for the money. Because this opportunity to invest will be much less in the future, because the price of Bitcoin will only increase overnight. So long-term investors never look for profit.
So you invest for long term and achieve future success. Having bitcoin means you are the king of future money.