Topic: Buy the DIP, and HODL! - page 454. (Read 123907 times)

of course right, even though he sold some of it at a lower price it is not wrong, if there is a loss that befalls him as long as it is not big why not? and don't forget to consider the decisions he will choose, because he himself will certainly face everything for the choices he chooses for the future, buying or selling BTC is one way to face the future but it is inseparable from the market price, so be smart in choosing or making decisions so that there will be no big losses that will befall him, everyone doesn't want the name of a loss, but indeed the risk is definitely there in any case and ready or not ready, whether we want it or not, we ourselves will make the decision that will produce good or bad results.

don't hesitate to make decisions if you are sure of what you think then do it, don't think you will lose and then fail in something, being brave in making decisions and taking risks is not wrong but it's a great thing because of that.

I'm not sure whether you really understand the DCA strategy well or not. But be aware, DCA is a strategy that requires you to divide your investment budget into several parts; for example into 3 parts. It's up to you whether you want to use 50% of your budget on your first purchase and use the other 25% on your second and third purchases, meaning you can still adjust it yourself.

The best investment goal to consider is not getting rich. However, you have to think wisely about what your main purpose of investing is, for example as a provision for life in old age or for your child's education costs for the next 10 or 15 years. We will never get rich just by investing $1k to $10k today, but if you want to be rich then invest more. But it is good if you have a wiser plan about what your investment goals in bitcoin are instead of getting rich.

Knowledge is important, but we should also keep in mind that in practice it might be a little different. For example, we have the knowledge that by holding bitcoin it will make our future brighter, but holding can be that easy? of course not, I mean when we are dealing with bearish market conditions for example, sometimes knowledge and panic will collide there, on the one hand we know that we have to stay afloat, on the other hand there is panic seeing the market which will eventually shake us a little. I am talking like this based on my experience when I was still early in the bitcoin space, but slowly I was able to get rid of that panic and now I am more calm even though the market may not be friendly. Instead, I am now thinking how to take advantage of the unfriendly market.

I have a "BTC investment ideas thread" that largely outlines aspects of my bitcoin investment journey, and of course from time to time, I will talk about some other angles when it seems that there might be some necessity to make some comparisons and contrasts.... Surely with many of the longer time bitcoiners, we sometimes will stray away from too many personal details, speak in terms of hypotheticals and maybe even throw out some pieces of information that may well end up being on a fictional character that may or may not exist inside of any real world.


I frequently will provide a contradictory message in terms of telling people to both stay the fuck away from shitcoins, while at the same time acknowledging that they can do whatever they like.   So anyone getting involved in shitcoin better at least be reminded that they need to be skeptical of those various projects and presume them to largely be wanting to take their coins, so in that regard, there needs to be ongoing concerns about both position size (how much you going to risk on being rug pulled), and attempting to reasonably time an in and out. because frequently the rug pulls or the drying up of liquidity will happen quickly and at a time that might not necessarily allow any kind of ability to get rid of the coin in order to save the guy/gal investing into such risky gambling crap.


There is no rush to get into bitcoin because anyone is going to be able to get into bitcoin, whether now or whether at some later time, and surely one of the advantages of getting in earlier is that you are both likely to be able to buy more bitcoin for fewer dollars and you are also going to have the advantage of being able to continuously be buying in such a way that you might not notice it so much (or to have pressure) like you might have if you were going to be having to invest into bitcoin in a lump sum...

So for example, even if a person got into bitcoin 3 years ago, and ended up buying $100 per week, spending $15,700 on their bitcoin investment while having an average cost of a $27,200 per bitcoin, then maybe s/he was able to accumulate 0.6 BTC during that time, that person is likely in way better position than someone of a similar economic status coming to bitcoin right now and trying to figure out how to get a hold of $15,700 to buy the same amount of bitcoin.

In other words, it can be quite difficult to lump sum into any investment, whether bitcoin or any other investment.. including a likely reality that those lump sums are not available to an overwhelming majority of people and also showing that time in the market tends to work out way better than trying to time the market.


I should have put a link in my above example of $10 per week from April 2016 to present that you are citing  (here it is).. and you surely seem to have had been able to relate to real facts that maybe a bit of a more consistent approach in terms of ongoingly accumulating bitcoin and maybe even attempting to be a bit aggressive about it without going overboard will end up contributing to a psychology in which you are mostly accumulating BTC and not fucking around with selling, even if you might get some short term pleasures from the profits that come from the short-term sales.... and even some of the longer term BTC holders get nervous about selling too much BTC too soon.. so frequently will hold through the first couple of cycles, even though it can be quite painful when big drops happen.. and it is hard to know when they are going to happen or how much and so trying to figure out various selling points is even more risky for bitcoiners who consider themselves to be in earlier parts of their BTC accumulation stage.


I do agree with your overall point that it risky to be making any kinds of BIG moves, and any kind of strategy that it is taken should overall be focused on BTC accumulation.. including selling is not even as close to as good as buying when a person has BTC accumulation goals... nonetheless there are still ways to make overall strategies to manage BTC portfolios that involve selling.. but my own position remains that it is not good to start to employ those kinds of strategies until you have reached a decently high BTC accumulation level (relative to your overall wealth.. and you can project out reasonable and prudent ways to deal with BTC price moves that fit your own personal financial and psychological situation).

I think we don't really disagree too much, and  it also seems that I have already given several examples (even in this thread) to make this point -  and it is not exactly on topic, so for now, I will hold back from providing another example in this direction.

Any trading requires knowledge, so here if we want to invest in Bitcoin, we must gather our knowledge in different ways. Because according to DCA strategy we need to invest Bitcoin once every week or once a month according to our source of income. And not every time a small amount of assets from an exchange can be stored in one's wallet, a small amount of assets per week or month for a long time can be hundreds of dollars. Big sellers may not contact you as per regular DCA strategy (since you are a small investor) in which case you will have to wait for a long time and turn several hundreds of dollars. This way you can own a large amount of wealth at one time but have to invest regularly.

Yeah you are right knowledge is very essential at least every trader needs the theoretical or pratical understanding about trading before venturing into, but in most cases people disregard knowledge because of greed which always turns out bad, but to evaluation victims, is mostly the beginners that always fall victim because of ignorance, every successful traders undergone processes of learning and acquiring knowledge to no the concept, Technical and fundamental analysis of the market before going in to trade, and perhaps knowledge doesn't only required on trading but on our daily life's we need knowledge for business, accumulation and holding in fact in all our day to day activities.

I understand your point completely and yes, you are right. Nevertheless, what I gave was an assumption... from experience, those who buy low to sell high usually do not necessarily wait for the peak but do sell as soon as they see considerable profits. So, I doubt they could be so patient and organized to buy at $12k and sell at $60k. The chances of this happening is very slim because no one would be able to know for certain that Bitcoin will go as high as $60k before the present retracing.

Looking at historic data and considering that market have this way of testing our psychology, it is most likely that they bought and sold at prices we are not even capturing. To be specific, Bitcoin made a high of $19,891 in 2017 before retracing to around $3,200 in January 2019. It rallied to around $12k in April 2019, so anyone who bought low would have targeted the previous ATH of 2017. This means those that bought around $12k would have sold around December 2020 when Bitcoin smashed the high of 2017 to hit around $29k before 2020 ended. From this point onward, Bitcoin never experienced any huge dip and this means that those who buy low to sell high might have missed the bull run of 2021 and even if they managed to jump in after selling their previous stash for profits, they most likely bought above $29k.

The point I am making is that even though this patter appear attractive to some people, it might make someone miss wonderful opportunity such as buying around $3200 and riding the wave of 2021. This kinds of HODL is only possible for long term holders and not those with the mindset of buy low and sell high.... the high might not really be the true high.

Talking about a decent opportunity this year is often tied to the retailer's last chance to collect sats. Because based on the news, large institutions continue to increase investor interest in buying larger amounts and holding them longer. I don't want that moment to be missed. So even with inconsistent investment, this can still provide a small opportunity to enjoy it in the future. Increasing cash flow is something I always try to address and minimize as effectively as possible with structured management. Involved my wife to act as financial assistant and gradually we started to fix the inconsistencies especially in investment allocation.


in 2017 I collected around 2 BTC and made me breathe easier by spending what I wanted to buy. But you were alone at that time, nothing could stop me from holding it any longer until now. Moments that are lost and will never come back. It will be the most beautiful memory that I will remember forever.

You may publish your own story at the OP post of this thread, it will not only be motivational for the others but at the same time you will not have to tell from time to time again.


The altcoins and the whole trading ecosystem is only made so that people sell their bitcoins for altcoins and keep holding bag of altcoins 

Thank you for your helpful advice, I will take the time to review my investment plan. You're right, the discussion is straying from what this topic is about, and selling is not appropriate to discuss too much here. We should focus on Buy DIP and HODL, this is the main content that needs to be discussed further in this topic.


Whether you are an investor or a trader, when entering the market, always prepare yourself with complete knowledge because knowledge is the only path that leads us to success. Knowledge is never useless, the more knowledge you have, the more opportunities you have to succeed.

First of all bitcoin does not have gas fees.  That is a shitcoin (probably ethereum) term.   Nonetheless, there usually would be some kind of a transaction fee in order to move the coins, but usually individuals will not sell BTC at spot price - so there can be some variance depending on how you know the person and perhaps the extent to which there is competition and maybe Bitcoin's price dynamics at the time of the transaction.  Transaction fees are not necessarily going to be very high when doing a private transaction, but the person who is selling might choose to have anywhere between 2% and 20% fees.. again depending.

Fees will tend to be lower when going through exchanges but fees vary and the level of KYC requirements vary too. .just like those kinds of matters might vary in regards to bitcoin ATMs or other possible ways of transacting.  There is not necessarily a best way, because someone might be trying to optimize for low fees and someone else might be trying to optimize for privacy, and there could be some other considerations too. involving if there might be either security risk or even risks of having coins frozen (locked-up) through exchanges.

Yeah that's true, in most cases they tend to charge more higher because in every transactions there is always a gas fee so the seller will always make sure the buyers covers for the fees, perhaps even if the seller agrees to sell to him with any amount provided he pays for the gas fees the buyer will still lose because by the time some percent of gas fees will be deducted from each buys his accumulation targets will completely change, the best way is to buy from an exchange were as he could buy any amount he desires with a risk free instead of buying from someone which perhaps may have other criteria or minimum transaction amount before transacting.

You don't even need to talk specifically about yourself Dewi Aries... you can suggest the hypothetical parameters.. so if someone is feeling that s/he is paying too many fees to buy BTC every single week because he ONLY has $10 per week on average, then there could be questions about whether it is wise to let those amounts build up.. so sometimes people can buy every single week, but then just let the amount build up to several hundred dollars before they move it from an exchange to a private wallet. 

Sure, it could be a little problematic if you are buying directly from a person, and sometimes, they might have a minimum that is several hundred dollars before they will even transact with you because they do not want to be having to interact with you with small transactions, so maybe in those cases you would have to wait several weeks or even several months before the amount of money that you have is high enough to meet their minimum transaction threshold.

I have asked before, those who often say they buy in stages throughout the year, can I see a more efficient description of the strategy they use, do they only buy with an accumulation of $10 per week or accumulate every quarter. A good strategy is to buy at every dip that occurs consistently rather than buying $10 at every stage, because you have to pay petrol costs which are considered inappropriate at every stage they do. Well, I agree with you JJG, a fairly accurate description of the topic is to buy and hold and forget about trading because it can have a bad effect on the sustainability of the investment being made. True holders are those who do not see a sell button in a component they have planned. Depending on their strategy, the most important thing is to buy and continue to hold.

Maybe you should give an example from yourself? 

You have been a member of the forum since 2015, so perhaps you could have started out with one strategy and then changed to another and then changed to another. 

I hate to tell too much about myself because I have told about myself so many times that I am sure that members get worn out from hearing my story.

So go ahead Furious 7 - or anyone else.. tell us how you might have started out your BTC accumulation strategy and then how you might have changed it from time to time in order to try to make it better.  And another thing, I don't really think that we want to hear about trading, but more in lines with how you might have engaged in some kind of an accumulation strategy, and sure many members do get distracted into trading and distracted into shitcoins and then they realize that they should have had employed and maintained a more consistent and ongoing buying strategy, whether it was DCA or buying BTC on dips or some combination of those two.

But in this case we also need to discuss about some methods or strategies that are done. I don't really have a problem with discussions like this it's just that when talking about investing then I will be firm that bitcoin is something that is very feasible for me but when talking about the strategies carried out I have never considered myself perfect in investing so that with discussions like this we can know what we can adopt from others by looking at the shortcomings that we did before.
I think about the strategies and methods used for investment still have to be upgraded because even though being in bitcoin is something very good but if the way we do it is wrong then the results will definitely be less than optimal.

You are making a lot of the same points as me, but I am suggesting that if you feel compelled to sell some, then to sell the lower amounts at various increments and never all at once and even to be in a position that you are never selling more than your profits (so you are not selling principle), even if we have a lot of confidence that the top of the cycle might have been met, so surely I don't even recommend selling as much as I mentioned but I am trying to provide some kind of a compromise possibility that others might consider rather than selling 100% of their stash, and from my perspective, you surely are going quite high.. because you are thinking that the odds are going to be with you to be able to buy back more BTC with the proceeds of your sale... which surely is getting us further and further from the topic of this thread when you start to think about selling as an accumulation strategy rather than mere a kind of insurance or just a BTC portfolio maintenance strategy.

That's what I feel now but not in the past because back then I was still always focussing on price which if you think about it rationally now I'm actually like a lost person with the way I was running before.
But the mistake I made back then was actually very good because if I didn't do that and didn't realise that what I was doing was wrong then I probably would have continued to look at price as a benchmark until now and this has definitely been a good experience for myself.

Actually, I think for some problems that occur and some mistakes are something natural, especially when we are in different conditions like when we started doing DCA. Making some mistakes is a natural thing but if we really want to be better then whether we are able to admit and correct the mistakes that have been made or not because in the end it is also a good experience for ourselves. as long as we do not dare to admit that we have been wrong then forever we will be trapped in standard thinking which in the end makes everything we do always considered right even though it is proven wrong.

He should carefully read your previous post and he should not be hypothetical with the accumulated annual profits from bitcoin investments, although they argue that bitcoin assets are for investment purposes but many investors have placed orders at the point of $100k to sell 10-20% of bitcoin assets , but if I have 2 bitcoins. I will plan a different strategy to sell 50-70% at $100k price point and start DCA strategy again when the price corrects below 85k, but the feasibility of the strategy depends on market review because when the market is bullish maybe the price can exceed +110k and we just need to review the prediction of the highest price that is likely to be reached and at that time we will use this strategy for the purpose of increasing the value of bitcoin investment by buying bitcoin during market corrections.

You are taking this to a whole different place when you change the example from yearly to monthly.  I was referring to an annual salary that increased from $10k to $30k over 7 years in order to allow for my point to be made through such hypothetical regarding how such BTC accumulation might affect a person if the BTC price were to go shooting up and maybe certain points in which some BTC might be shaved off at various price points along the way in order to not necessarily devolve into all or nothing thinking when it comes to BTC portfolio management - which from my perspective starts to seem more like gambling rather than investing, when guys seem to be considering price points in which they are selling all or even a vast majority of their BTC holdings..


Again.. your hypothetical seems to be misreading what I had said, even though I don't really disagree with some of your points, but the numbers that I had been trying to use don't work anymore if you are changing that $30k from annually and into monthly.