Topic: Calling top at $16500 (Even Newer!: $2483 bottom 19 Feb 2021 MtGox said so!) - page 10. (Read 24301 times)

I think the hit is in the tail end as far as economic and business effects are concerned as not all costs are yet apparent.    Thing is for BTC it will react to monetary base expansion, the exceptional moves by the FED to create liquidity and inflation no matter what.  So its not exactly about covid but the central banks reaction to the market and every asset traded in dollars.     Dollar remains weak, its at the lows of March and Oct '18 and about midway in the decline of 2017.     Theres no real pressure from dollar recovering value, the really big estimates for BTC gains rely on dollar continuing to lose value, at the moment its still looking beneficial to gains.

Not the purpose of a public ledger in the case of bitcoin. It seems facetious to claim otherwise.


You're ignoring the fact that 50% or more of BSV's market cap still rests on the lie that Faketoshi is Satoshi. This is a critical error when assuming any sort of future price gains with this particularly fraudulent shitcoin.

But frankly I can't remember a time when you've ever been right about anything, so carry on. Lol.

Clearly, there are no differences that _you_ see.

You've already stated your position, which is all we need to know.

there are no differences to see. they are both centralized altcoins that were copied from bitcoin like about a thousand other altcoins. they both are created to be pumped and dumped and make money for their controllers. and they both have BIP-143 or in other words most of SegWit copied from bitcoin.

"Shut down?" What does that mean, banned by governments? And you think BCH or BSV (not sure which one you prefer these days) will be the only one left standing? I'd love to hear a rational explanation for why that would happen.

It's becoming increasingly obvious to me as time goes on cryptocurrencies aren't getting banned. It looks like even privacy coins will just get soft banned, where de-listing them will be a prerequisite for exchanges to enter a state licensing scheme.

Russians already have vaccine. EU, USA and China are for sure not far behind. The big covid-19 hiatus drama is already behind us. Even if we get next wave and daily infected get another leg up there will be hope at the end of the tunnel and hope is bad for bottoms. Bitcoin had bottom in December 2018. And Bitcoin had another crash in March this year. Bitcoin will not go below March price. If there is some new fear then price will bounce from $5000 or higher and very fast go above $7000.

It saddens me that you still don't seem to be able to tell the difference between BCH and BSV.

1) You illustrate my point BTC has "special case" code to handle this in order to make SegWit work. ie it has changed the protocol. "Backwards compatible soft fork" is double speak.
2) BCH may use those addresses, BSV does not.
3) BSV does not have Schnorr sigs, this is another thing BTC introduce that changes the protocol (protocol is more the the digital byte stream btw)
4) BCH suffers from the same problems as BTC. They think Bitcoin needs "fixing".
 

Yes! I jumped from the burning sinking ship of BTC!
Yes! Bitcoin will live on and prosper!

By jove you've got it

It's not uneducation, it's the wilful rejection and denial of good old fact, or it's bent to fit whatever narrative they feel like hawking. We see it on here in countless forms all the time. They know and we know what the actual score is.

it saddens me to see after 3 years there are still so many uneducated people who are making the same contradictory statements like a parrot.

these so called "fundamental changes to protocol" are copied exactly word by word to both bcash and bcashsv it is just not called "Segregated Witness" and is disguised as the "replay protection" and other things otherwise it is exactly the same code copied over from bitcoin core.
1) BIP-143 aka the Transaction Signature Verification for Version 0 Witness Program or in simple terms the same thing that happens in a SegWit transaction during signing as a backward compatible soft fork while other transactions remain the same, all bacsh and bcashsv transaction do with a backward incompatible hardfork.
this is a bcash source code not bitcoin: https://github.com/Bitcoin-ABC/bitcoin-abc/blob/c8309573b9236817e20f11c5025f20ddb37a1c16/src/script/interpreter.cpp#L1488-L1548
2) it doesn't stop there either, bacash is using BIP-173 aka Base32 address format for native v0-16 witness outputs for all its addresses
(these were added from day one that bcash was created not later on.)
3) and it is also using BIP-340 aka Schnorr Signatures for secp256k1 which is the SegWit version 1
4) i don't follow bcash but they were lately talking about building a layer two on top of bcash aka building lightning network!

basically bcash is the backward incompatible SegWit introduction without some of the malleability fixes. and the modifications they added due to incompetency of the developers has added new vulnerabilities to these altcoins.

And on, and on, and on... like a rat jumping from one burning, sinking ship to another.

Maybe one day you'll find the elusive "real Bitcoin". Hey...you smell that, sgbett? BSV is already on fire and sinking fast. I hope they do another fork soon so you can jump ship again.  

Meanwhile, Bitcoin^TM will live on and prosper.

Popular opinion is rarely right! Just look at popular opinion on this "pandemic" despite the oodles of data, and the massive amount of research into virology, epidemiology etc that is all publicly available should people want to dig past the doom-porn media headlines.

So it seems you are all very confused - I think I understand why, it looks like you are all actually being serious when you say that you think BTC is Bitcoin. I apologise, I thought you were all joking! ;p

When I say Bitcoin I mean Bitcoin. Not BTC - because SegWit is a fundamental change to protocol that makes it no longer Bitcoin. Not BCH because ... well, I think we can all just agree on that

For me when BTC forked by changing the protocol, that left BCH as Bitcoin to me. When BCH forked by changing the protocol that left BSV as Bitcoin to me. I'm not choosing to follow an alt coin, or whatever. I am simply staying with the Bitcoin that I beleive in, regardless of squabbling over the name, the ticker, and price and all sorts of other such things that do not actually define what Bitcoin is.

At each juncture I swapped my airdropped coins for what I see as Bitcoin. I have a stronger belief in Bitcoin's success than ever before because I understand it so much more than I did. I see clearly now why the protocol must be restored and absolutely nailed down. I see the economics of it much more clearly, I see its place within the exist legal frameworks more clearly and I see that absolutely immense power of the SCRIPT language at its heart. Something that was so *utterly* misunderstood back in the day.

Because I move in different circles I also see a lot more of what is being built on Bitcoin, and I feel incredibly lucky to be involved. This is incredibly motivating and the feeling of peace that comes from it is incredible. Truly I am in a cult yes? ;p

Still I prefer the cult of developing on a radically new platform the likes of which no-one has ever seen. Over the fear of "getting rekt" , "will it moon" or whatever else seems to fuel the fears of very other degenerate gambler. I did my time back in the day, i'm done - I post predictions for fun, to prove discussion, to gauge mood. I'm interested in people. I'm very interested in the relentless attacks on me for daring to state a different belief.

The cries off "offtopic, offtopic" are so transparent as a means of trying to cow me into submission. I admit my post in June I touched on the subject again somewhat reluctantly because I know ya'll get triggered so hard by it. It amounted to an afterthought following two pretty lengthy posts about BTC price action, it seemed relevant as a factor that could have an effect so I would suggest to you I *was* being on topic.

August 7 through 10 there is lengthy discussion about me and my mental state - I wonder where the cries of offtopic were then! Do I have a right to reply to those allegations, to put forward my case? has not this conversation today been a series of replies on the topic of Bitcoin speculation? Must all threads stick rigidly to those areas authorised by a self-appointed topic boss? What even is the topic?

I'd say given the quite large question mark over bitcoin and its future right now, that discussion as to what constitutes the nature of Bitcoin are extremely relevant to the topic of speculating on the BTC/USD.

What of this case in Florida? Consider the case is over ownership of early BTC. Do you think it would be a smart thing to do to start spending coins that are the subject of a multi billion dollar lawsuit? It baffles me that people haven't even bothered to equip themselves with the most cursory understanding of the legal implications of Bitcoin given that is one of the foundational pillars of the BSV thesis. (The best way to discredit it would be to understand it in order that you can expose its faults). Do you think ignoring potential competitors, by naively dismissing them out of hand without understanding them could have a potential effect on speculative value?

Contrast BSV's drive to be friendly to regulators and law enforcement to the direction of BTC implementing features like CT, LN, Schnorr etc ostensibly all looking to increase anonymity of BTC transactions (check your history as to how well that always ends for digital cash!) as well as pushing the idea that nodes have power under the guise of the amorphously (if at all) described goal of decentralisation. Do you think that attempting to end-run governments by flouting the law is going to succeed? Do you think this has any effect on speculation on BTC price? Is this on-topic enough yet?

I don't expect compelling responses to these challenging thoughts, because it would require open-minded consideration of them and what I have seen tonight is the most brutal display of dogmatic thinking. Of shouting down. Pure head in the sand reasonining. I have ideas why, but thats not important. The behaviour speaks for itself.

Lets have a little Gregory (no not *that* one!)...


https://youtu.be/71Fo0ds1YXw

At the end of the day sgbett, value is driven by belief, and belief is a popularity contest.

Sorry to break it to you, but BCH and BSV lost that popularity contest long ago to crazy antics and bullshit fraud from the likes of Roger Ver, Calvin Ayre, CSW, and the loonie developers. Both have been judged in the court of popular opinion and found guilty of scammery. The reality is that no one held high opinion of either BCH or BSV from the very start (except a scant few crazies such as yourself).

If you still hold any BSV, keep dreaming the dream I guess.   But it'll never ever happen. Like ever.

The fact that you claim to be 90%+ in Bitcoin, and have been all along, just proves that you have always known the truth.

Is this thread about bitcoin or not?

If this thread is about bitcoin, then who the fuck cares whether facts about off-topicness is represented accurately or fair or whatever.  I can generally refer to all other coins, crypto or whatever that you want to call them as shitcoins, and that remains as far as the topic needs to go or to be explored in this thread.


I am not sure about how the extent of my objectivity, to the extent it exists is relevant, either.

You are so passionate to talk about shitcoins in this bitcoin thread that you seem to be lacking in objectivity way more than me.

You are passionate in terms of NOT giving up on the irrelevant topic within this thread.  How objective is that?  If objectivity might be an aspiration, here.


Yeah, whatever.  They can give all kinds of excuses for their desire to engage in a scam and to print money.. .whatever,  who fucking cares if they might be able to outline some kind of plausible reason that would not be a scam?  Not this cat.


Wow!!!!! you are finally talking about BTC, here.

Maybe we could celebrate?

Yes.  I understand that you are referring to August 1, 2017.. for the hardfork.

Your framing of the whole matters seems a bit off.  What happened in 2017 was that there were a few folks trying to force BTC into a change that started in early 2017 (but had roots further back) that both caused increases to the onchain blocksize limitations and there were strivings to change BTC's consensus mechanism to cause BTC to become easier to change in the future, and sure there were various BTC proposals and back and forth.. and largely what happened was that miners were forced into a decision to agree to segwit or to reject it, and they choose to agree to the adoption and implementation of segwit which was going to take until nearly the end of August to lock in, even though consensus for segwit with more than 95% of the nodes (and miners) and really close to 100% were signaling to adopt segwit by August 1, 2017. 

Sometime in June/July 2017 Jihun Wu and some of his fucktwats were crying over the imminent implementation of segwit, and they decided to hardfork off into bcash, and then there were other hardfork threats that were simultaneously happening to cause another segwit2x fork in November 2017 - but the segwit2x fork got dropped because it appeared that those other bitcoin attacker fucktwats could not muster enough support to feel comfortable following through with that segwit2x fork.

In the end, segwit did end up going live in the end of August 2017, and various aspects of the bitcoin community have been building various systems and integrative components, such as lightning on bitcoin subsequent to segwit going live and making it easier to build those kinds of systems on BTC.. furthermore in late 2017 and even into January 2018, there were pretty intensive and extensive SPAM attacks on the bitcoin network and even seeming to inspire lightning network to go live in January 2018 in a kind of rogue way - but lightning network's going live did seem to inspire the lessening of spam attacks on the BTC network too, but surely likely that some of the parties engaged in ongoing BTC spam attacks were finding that the costs of their ongoing spam attacks on BTC were likely costing them way more than they felt that they were benefiting from such ongoing spam attacks... so suddenly those spam attacks stopped in late January 2018.


First of all, who gives any shits about what is happening in the shitcopin bcash (BCH) camp, and the mere fact that some diptwats are raising scaling (or BIG BLOCKER) nonsense in BTC circles does not mean that any of the BIG BLOCKER distractions are having any substantive, meaningful or representative impact on current BTC developments.  Of course, scaling is not going to go away as a topic, and the balancing of onchain versus off chain is not going to go away as a topic, either, so who fucking cares, if the topic of onchain versus off chain or the various remedies are ongoingly proposed in various bitcoin circles. 

Part of the aspects of bitcoin is that proposals are able to be raised and to be discussed and to batted around, and if there are good proposals, then they are likely to be adopted into bitcoin in various kinds of ways if that might be feasible and especially if there is consensus to actually make the change beyond merely discussing it.  Ultimately there is a need to reach consensus and to go through the process if there really are desires to have adoption of some new aspects into bitcoin... and as you likely realize there is a lot of reluctance towards hardforking anything in bitcoin, absent some kind of emergency situation.




I think people realize that, and that is why bitcoin dominates in the space.


Well, it is both a scam and it is off topic, here... So, sure, both of those things in regards to bcash sv.


Exactly.  I probably would not even bother replying to your nonsense if you sent me a direct message with such ongoing and persistent stupidity.


Well, half the time, I don't even know for sure what you are talking about if you use the word "bitcoin," so there is that angle, too.  Also, in regards to bitcoin, I can say anything that I want.  It is not like I am some kind of bitcoin marketer, so why would it matter if I were actually saying things that discredit bitcoin?  You are hardly making any sense, even if you were factually accurate, and I doubt that you are even factually accurate.. you are just throwing out a bunch of shit and hopening that some of it might stick.. hope.. hope... hope.

Why bother to understand facts when you can keep makings stuff up.

This just goes to further demonstrate that your judgement is not at all objective.

The reason BCH split is because the devs wanted to keep tinkering with the protocol, specifically at that time it was introduction of a new opcode OP_CDSV (which is entirely unneccasry because you can implement it in SCRIPT).

The reason BTC split is because the Core Devs wanted to implement SegWit (entirely unnecessary, unless you are trying to force LN adoption so you can transact anonymously off chain undermining the purpose of a public ledger).

It's the same pattern! Now BCH are facing split again because of arguments over protocol tweaks and I *still* see these kind of arguments in the BTC camp.

What the majority of people don't understand is that the network needs to be stable, such that business can build on it. Rely on it not changing and breaking their business.

vs your explanation of "I don't know anything about bcash sv just that its a scam, and snake oil, and they split because... scam ... and nobody cares about you and everybody agrees with me"

You know other people can read what you are posting? You seem to be doing a better job at discrediting BTC's claim to the name of Bitcoin than I am  

Stop fucking around with trying to fuck around with supposed nuance why one shitcoin bcash is supposedly better than another shitcoin bcash.. There is no basis for your claim, except your desire to spin the matter.

BSV forked from BCH when they could not get along and/or jointly agree to how to maximize their scamming efforts, so of course, new money-making and deception-making opportunities were recognized between the two dipshits of camps... thus a split in the bcashes...



They are shitcoin forks of each other as of mid-November 2018..


Who gives a ratt's ass if there were choices to change the code in order to attempt to scam in different kinds of ways.. Hardly matters at all beyond merely being ongoing snakeoil scam products.


Again, who cares how their shitcoin is designed in order to improve, blah blah blah... ?



I could care less what your little scam product does beyond that you are trying to act like it is bitcoin, and even talking in this thread in those kinds of deceptive and ambiguous ways regarding what coin we are talking about...

I thought that we were talking about bitcoin in this thread, then then you bounce between bitcoin and bcash and try to act as if you are talking about bitcoin..

That is not fear, it is irritation with your lack of forthrightness.


Again.. no one cares about your shitcoin or what variant it is playing itself as.  This thread is about bitcoin, no?  Except you cannot figure out a way to stay focused, so you bounce around in what you are referring to.. in order to slip in some bullshit about your shitcoin... when others reading this thread might have thought that they were reading about bitcoin, and all of a sudden you are talking about some shitcoin, some variant of bcash, and calling it bitcoin.


You are crazy.. maybe you should move such discussion of bcash to another thread.  This one was supposed to be about bitcoin, the last I checked, and I even checked with you about a year ago when you were spouting out some ambiguous bullshit, just to make sure that you were still talking about bitcoin and you said that you were.. and now you are back to your old lame shit of switching topics while not really disclosing your switch.



You dig your own holes with your behavior.. I just attempt to seek clarity, and then you just dig further.. like a diptwat...

yeah, sure, I don't mind being a "friend", but you should at least attempt to communicate with genuineness so any of us potential "friends" can understand what the fuck you are talking about..

No friend wants to be deceived... (or at least few would still consider the other as a friend, if they are engaging in deception maneuvers and slipping in other topics when you though that you were not on that other topic).


If we are on a BTC topic in this thread, then we should stick with such topic... If you want to refer us to some bcash thread then provide a link.  We should not be bouncing around in this particular thread in such a way that members (or readers) don't even know what the topic is.



I don't see how I am lying.  I was just seeking clarification from you regarding what you were talking about when you seemed to had slipped bcash into the discussion.. yeah bcash sv, but still bcash, nonetheless and it was not bitcoin (btc) that you were referring to when you slipped it in...

By the way, I am not even addressing the purported differences between those various shitcoins and bitcoin (btc) because it seems to be just a slippery slope of off-topicness, so your attempts to try to attribute substance to my claims seems to be quite out of place.. because i give few fucks about your particular shitcoin (seemingly bcash sv) and how it may differ from other shitcoins (bcash or other shitcoins).. or even how your shitcoin (bcash sv) might differ from bitcoin or purportedly be the same as bitcoin.



Oh gawd....       Always a new timeline with you bcash sv'ers regarding the next doom and gloom or blah blah blah bullshit..

remember January 2020 that the tulip trust was going to deliver the keys?  I mean, I could go on and on about the number of times that bullshit claims were going to be revealed and bitcoin (BTC) was going to go to zero or whatever based on such speculated calamities...

Regarding my own investment strategy, sure I have been accumulating BTC since about late 2013, and the first year involved a decent amount of front-loading my investment, and then I went more into a maintenance of my stash kind of mode that mostly has revolved around HODL.. but continued to have some DCA buying and some selling as the BTC price goes up and using those proceeds to buy back in the event that BTC prices go down (which I have striven towards making the increments larger and the gap between buy and sell larger.. in a kind of swing trade approach.. with fewer trades).. so my approach is a bit more sophisticated than a pure HODL.. even though there is a decent amount of HODL contained therein. 

I am not really opposed to transitioning my BTC approach into more of a maintenance and liquidation mode.. but probably, any liquidation approach that I use would continue to employ incrementalism type tactics, so there would continue to be a decent amount of maintenance contained therein... Of course, the longer that any investor has been into bitcoin and has not been fucking around with various shitcoins, the more likely that such BTC investor has accumulated a decent BTC stash and decent profits, which largely just causes a lot more options... so sure, individual circumstances could also affect comfort levels that BTC investors have in terms of shaving off some BTC profits or merely continue to HODL through expected cycles, which are far from guaranteed as you seem to be doomily and gloomily acknowledging.. even while the vast majority of bitcoiners are far from even as close to as doomily or gloomily as you, and the odds seem to be quite against your particular scenario playing out, even though you announce such nonsense as if you were an actual modern day Nostradamus.

It's weird that you would think they are largely the same thing, did you just pull an opinion out of thin air, or did you actually check?

BSV and BCH are worlds apart. The codebases have diverged significantly. BCH are still able to merge from the Core repository - which you would have gleaned from the Andrew Stone article if you had read it, BSV has been significantly re-written in order to address a whole bunch of cruft that had been added over the years, allowing for proper scaling of the base layer.

It seems to me your angry rant is grounded in fear. Fear of the unknown. You are afraid because you don't understand why someone like me would do something that looks so crazy to someone like you. Despite all the information being out there you would prefer to ignore it in case you have to challenge your belief. I look crazy because you don't have context. Without that you try and rationalise my behaviour by inventing stories steeped in mythology that are just echoes of what you have read from other people in a similar position. It's like talking to goldbugs back in the day, trying to convince them about Bitcoin's potential. They thought we were crazy too. Your identity is now so intrinsically linked to BTC that you have no hope of unraveling the uncomfortable truth.

So your choice is the easy lie. Keep HODLing brother, it worked in the past so it will always work in the future! You have nothing to worry about with me and my silly little alt coin. Fingers in ears LA LA LA. I'm sure it will go away soon, just another 18 months.

The sad thing is so many will get burned and I don't wish that on anyone :/

Bcash and Bcash SV are largely the same thing.. so stop playing around with that nonsense.. you are still fucking around with shitcoins because you own bcash sv.. and calling it bitcoin, so it appears still in such a delusional state trying to act like you own bitcoin when you own a shitcoin variant of bcash.

So, if we merely refer to the tickers, to make you feel MOAR better, then how much do you own of each?  BTC versus BSV... presuming that you only own those two coins, or do you only own BSV.. that would be really dumb.. you gotta admit that, no?


All your purported positive talk about "bitcoin" presumes that some how BSV is included in that lil club?  Makes no sense.. BSV is pretty damned close to a complete scam with a clown show regarding a bunch of bag holders hoping that there might be some additional pumpenings along the way, whether referring to rich investors (such as calvin ayre) or propaganda machine built around BSV, or that stupid ass court case in Florida.. or some other phoney baloney bullshit that would be difficult to presume anyone actually believed in the project beyond some possible potential that its lack of liquidity makes it easier to pump.. and hopefully if you are in such shit you are actually able to sell during one or more of those pumpenings instead of getting stuck holding up the value of it in order that some BIGGER bag holders such as Calvin or a BIGGER scammer such as fucktwat Craig Wright can fork coins based on some lameass presumption that they were his coins anyhow.. blah blah blah.. does not even bear repeating because it is such a stupid proposition that BSV bagholders (supports) seem so inclined to believe or at least to propagate misinformation around such fantasy ideas.

Assuming you mean Bitcoin Cash then you are correct I don't have any.

BCH is on the brink of yet another split... https://read.cash/@AndrewStone/bch-looking-back-and-moving-forward-a703cbcc

Why would anyone think this is a good idea? https://medium.com/bitcoin-abc/bitcoin-abcs-plan-for-the-november-2020-upgrade-65fb84c4348f

Huh?   You no longer hold Bcash crap?  I thought that you own Bcash?  bcash is not bitcoin... unless I am misunderstanding you?