Topic: Child Kidnappings by the Western-European States - page 10. (Read 72940 times)

I found an interesting testimonial to this "child-care" problem in one of the science fiction book "Long Mars" by the British authors Sir Terry Pratchett and Stephen Baxter, in chapter 24. The problem has made it into the British national heritage.

A boy, Paul was an exceptionally bright kid, and he eventually gets taken away from his father, who by that time is divorced. Paul's sister lives with her
mother, but she too is taken away, when she shows signs of out of the ordinary cleverness. Sample these two quotes:

"Paul was just ten when he was taken away from his father."

"A little digging revealed that Paul's sister Judy had by now also been taken away from her mother. And, such was the whim of the care system, the siblings were kept apart."

This is just shocking. What the hell is going on in those countries? And that madness is spreading like a plague in all Europe ...
Just can't believe it ...

Seems to be a terrible case, but unfortunately not unusual. They are going strong here in Europe too, worse luck. How on earth can we help people out of the clutches of "professionals"?

To my mind it is not just a question of a dangerous system of authority and power, it is one particular item in this system: psychology of the psycho-babble kind. All the quackery has invaded psychology since the time and influence of Freud and is getting stronger. Freud, by the way, knew nothing about the brain and completely missed the developments in biochemistry and medicine of the time, such as the discovery of hormones and their relationship to sensory stimulation and behaviour.

And clinical psychology has been going down all sorts of dead-end roads ever since. If there is such a thing as psycho-somatic illness (which is a question of definition, of course), psychologists certainly have no particular insight into how it is generated or cured. We need to remember that the number of patients Freud cured by means of his psychoanalysis, was zero - 0 - nil. On the contrary, one of his patients had to go into a sanatorium after Freud and Breuer had fiddled around with her too long, not getting anywhere. The sanatorium put her on her feet. Freud was also instrumental in causing the death of at least one patient plus one friend of his, the patient because he did not discover a brain tumour but psychoanalysed the man while the tumour developed, his friend by introducing him to cocaine, claiming that this would cure his addiction to morphia. Before very long the friend was addicted to both, and committed suicide.

We need to keep in mind that the brain is actually an organ in the body, like other organs, and that if people were really as detrimentally affected by their environment as the psycho-babblers say this poor boy in Missouri is, then our species would never have survived through evolution. Think of it: Humans have spread around the world, managing to survive and adapt to all sorts of environments and conditions long before any "modern" facilities or inventions were around. And yet psycho-babblers believe that we completely lose our grip if we have a frightening experience or two? And ordinary people are led to believe this too, believe that it is necessary to "go into therapy" given by these jokers, for years - and that that is what makes us better? How about reading something by Frederick Crews and throwing the psychological nonsense out of the hospitals and the courts? Crews is very refreshing (I have read The Memory Wars.)

Frederick Crews
Wikipedia, (last updated) 12 February 2015

Missouri boy put into foster care after parents sought second opinion on medical diagnosis
http://truthbesold.com/missouri-boy-put-into-foster-care-after-parents-sought-second-opinion-on-medical-diagnosis/

  
"Our" thread here seems to have gone to rest or taken a pause. Which is natural; none of us have unlimited time to look for new relevant things the whole time.

It does not, unfortunately, mean that no new tragic cases see light - they do, all the time. But they are so frequent that they are almost commonplace in the perception of the Norwegian public, and of course Norwegian authorities and their chummies the press always try to keep silent about the tragedies. They do, on the other hand, keep their hand in publicising their "concern" about all the children they think are maltreated by their parents (but never about those maltreated and brain-washed by foster "parents" or in institutions).

Also, there are developments the whole time, but in the wrong direction. Here is a recent question in our parliament (called Stortinget) by an MP who was worried about the fact that the law had not yet criminalised the action of children being taken back by parents when the children had just been taken on an interim emergency decision, not yet confirmed by a County Committee or a court. The Minister of Justice answered her that he and the government were as worried as she was, and that there would be a proposal to make that too illegal. In other words, the child protection people can just take a child and install it anywhere they please, without giving any explanation and for as long as it takes them to cook up a case for the County Committee, and parents who try to take the child back face prison, just like the parents who try to get their child away after a County Committee decision or a court verdict in favour of the CPS:

Skriftlig spørsmål fra Jenny Klinge (Sp) til justis- og beredskapsministeren
(Written question from Jenny Klinge (Sp) to the Minister of Justice and Public Security)
Stortinget (Parliament), 4 - 5 February 2015

I just about expected this, after the two Lithuanian families tried to rescue their children – one succeeded, one failed (the little boy) – and in the last-mentioned case the police and the CPS evidently tried all they could to find something criminal to accuse the mother and her helpers of (cf this post about the hunt for the boy and the helpers).

This is a new turning of the screw – we have had a lot such little and bigger steps putting families completely out of power as regards their children. They started at least 25 years ago and have been introduced so gradually that the blue-eyed Norwegians have completely overlooked it all.

Another threatening development will be the introduction of "Child and family courts". It sounds fine maybe, sounds as though these "specialised" courts will offer more of a solid procedure under "the rule of law" than we have at present. In reality it will be something just like the County Committes, just with a new name, added prestige and exactly the same kind of people as experts confirming each other – yet another solidification of what is being done already.

*

I sincerely hope that all these other countries, the Czech Republic, Russia, Slovakia, Poland, the Baltic countries, will not back down but will continue fighting for their expatriots' natural family life. There are other countries too which have experience of the same: India, Sri Lanka, Malaysia, Nigeria, Brazil which could usefully join in – but many of them of course have so many issues to tackle at home, and Norwegian CPS and bureaucracy certainly know how to talk gobbledygook and then let things drag on endlessly so that people and foreign governments give up or lose interest.

It will be a miracle, I am afraid, if any of the children from foreign lands who have been taken and deprived of their families by Norway will ever be set free – certainly not voluntarily. Norway fears the consequences and repercussions of letting eny of them go. On the contrary, after the India case in Stavanger, the CPS were promised that our Foreign Ministry and other ministries would take on "informing" other nations about child protection and relieve local CPS units of having to deal with protests.

  

Finnish Ministry of Justice came with a statement that taking of the children from the families is done as the last resort and always for the better of the children, according to the following article in Russian:

http://tass.ru/obschestvo/1793461

Ha!

I bow to what is probably very superior knowledge as regards atheists, since my knowledge is restricted, it is true. I do not have any systematic overview.

But regarding Christians I think it may be as I said. The Catholic form of Christianity places Mary, the mother of Christ, very centrally. With that tends to go an ingrained awareness of and respect for motherhood that is absent from protestantism in my experience (Lutheran protestantism has been predominant in Norway since the reformation and still is). "Getting rid of" the worship of saints, and the Holy Virgin Mary among them, was one of the elements in the protestant reformation.

**

This video is a year old:

Norvegija „Barnevernet - vaikų medžioklė"
Norvegijos – on youtube, 18 January 2015


It is probably interesting in itself, I think (my guess is it is in Polish, with Lithuanian texting), and there are many more relevant ones in the right hand margin on youtube. I am very glad that there is so much activity exposing and discussing Norwegian CPS abroad now. The title I think means something like "Norwegian Barnevernet (the child protection service) hunts for children".

A search with the words "vaikų medžioklė" gives a long list of hits.

    

it's a big problem, just have watched few shows about this issue and I believe, that Norway should pay attention to different cultures, not just impose its culure and laws to imigrants. they work for them and contribute to theirs economy.. it requires compromise...

act of war.

This case is pretty interesting from a logical point of view: the woman's sister and this sister's fiancé didn't speak Norwegian. The woman's husband was not with them, so it is natural to assume that all three were speaking Czech in the café. To a causal observer (e.g.: the waitress) they would look just like a group of tourists. In other words, this case is a clear indication that Norwegian CPS can target tourists visiting the country and attempt taking these tourists' kids from them.

News from Lithuania, few pretty angry MPs
http://en.delfi.lt/lithuania/politics/group-of-mps-want-lithuanian-government-to-pick-a-fight-with-norway-over-childrens-welfare.d?id=67207776

"This home therapist was a 60-year-old woman, unmarried with no children. She had no kind of education for a profession as "home therapist"

At my second grade I had a teacher, 60+, unmarried and childless. I do not remember her fondly.
The only people, who know precisely how to raise a child are people, who do not have any.

This is the whole Scandinavia + the UK problem. Few days ago Danish students demolished a Prague hotel.
I think that many people in the Scandinavia have the same attitude to alcohol as a child of an alcoholic (you are or an abstinent or an alcoholic) + plus Norway is a part of the vodka belt, because if you look at the consumption per capita it is pretty low in Norway.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_alcohol_consumption_per_capita

I am a professional  (I am paid, you can say overpaid,  for finding information).
I was digging information for reaction of the Council of Europe, because Norway is not an EU member, so this is a place to complain.
Additionally there was the case when CPC authority questioned this small girl for four hours to forced her to say that her father is a pedo and she won her case against Norway.

This is not only Norway.  The cases from the UK are also bad.

This case had a happy end
http://www.maminka.cz/clanek/jana-v-norsku-mi-malem-sebrali-helenku

Jana is a young Czech  woman, she has met a bloke from Norway in Prague, she has married him and moved to Norway. A daughter was born and her family was visiting. The went for a walk with the pram. it was cold, they entered a café  and ordered a grog (she was not breastfeeding any more). The waitress look funny, after some time she had a discussion with an another customer. They called somebody After 15 min police arrived with a CPC, everybody ended in the local police station. CPC wanted to take the baby.  What saved her was that her husband was from Norway and he is a physician. When he arrived everybody changed tune, she was offered a place to change nappies....

  
On the news on Norwegian tv2 just now, 16 February at 3 pm, there was a short report from Prague. I don't know if you'll credit it, but it was actually about Norwegian teenagers who were vacationing in Prage in their winter holidays. The "winter holidays" run for a week with schools closed.

Cf "the joke" above – I "stole" it and posted it here, tried to sort of summarise it together with the comment that you could see them in Minorca:
Joke circulating – Adopt your Norwegian child!
 
Back to the news: It seems that there is a firm - or an organisation - which specialises in arranging a kind of "package tour" to Prague for Norwegian school kids. The firm rents several bars or restaurants where these kids go and party, some of them are under 18. The arranging firm has refused to be interviewed by tv, but has sent them a mail saying that the under-age teenagers are not supposed to drink alcohol and that the firm provides "guards" to take care of that and keep general order. One participant, who was over 18, was interviewed in the street and said that in reality no questions are asked and that those under 18 were served and drank like everyone else. A hotel manager was interviewed and talked about trouble – there were other guests to consider (people who evidently didn't unreservedly like the wild crazy Norwegian youngsters) and he also said that they liked to keep their hotel nice and undamaged. I didn't catch whether this hotel had thrown the Norwegian wild ones out.

So, you don't have to go as far as Minorca to see them. – Norwegian upbringing, including that brought about by Norwegian child protection, no doubt. Well actually, lots of grown-up Norwegian people behave just about the same both on holiday and at home of a Saturday night.

But we Norwegians, especially Norwegian child protection experts, of course know best about everything regarding children, the kind of upbringing they should have, the milieu they should live in, what "stimulation" they need! (The "lack of adequate stimulation" is one of the CPS's pet accusations against parents.) So of course it is best for Eva Michaláková's boys to grow up in Norway and under expert guidance by Norwegians! ( ?? Hollow laughter)
  

I found a good analysis of the report here:
https://celticknotblog.wordpress.com/2015/02/06/social-services-in-europe-legislation-and-practice-of-the-removal-of-children-from-their-families-in-council-of-europe-member-states/

There is one political problem, that I hope will not detract from the report, exactly because it comes from a Russian reporter.
Russia was denied voting rights in PACE for the second year in the row under the bad pretext of Ukraine and considers leaving the Council of Europe altogether next year as it sees no point in paying a membership fee if it is not going to be heard anyway.


Maybe, though being an atheist in at least 3rd generation, I would disagree. Atheists tend to subscribe to humanistic views, with the main principal of "do to others as you would like others do to you".

  
The report, now in a preliminary form, from the Council of Europe which you have linked to, Naine, is very important, I think:
Social services in Europe: legislation and practice of the removal of children from their families in Council of Europe member States
January 2015

And it is brand new! I had no idea of its existence. Wonderful - where ever did you find it? There are several formulations there which are so rightly critical of abuses going on that I can hardly believe my eyes. I have only skimmed through it, but I must study it more closely. (Hmm, the reporter is Russian, Nemo - a feather in Russia's cap too!)

*

About different countries:


I don't think it is only your impression. There are indications that the countries of Southern Europe have a greater respect for the family than we do further north, and I think probably it has something to do with their Catholic faith, its greater veneration of mothers and family ties altogether.

Mind you, the northerners can "impress" them about our "welfare" and our court procedures, so that they will hand over Scandinavian refugees with children to the country which demands them back. Exactly because the southern countries do not take children away from their families on the same loose grounds that Norway does, Norway can wave court verdicts which seem very very impressive and the southerners will perhaps tend to believe that in a near perfect country like Norway, with its heavenly economy and divine social welfare system, a parent who has been condemned by a court to lose his/her children must be very bad indeed. I guess they have difficulties understanding how pervasive the lies and deception of the CPS system are, and find it equally incredible that Norway should send halv a dozen policemen and social workers down to get a child, unless that child was in incredible danger.

But nevertheless: I think Catholicism gives a certain protection against the inhuman thinking so usual in CPS circles, which perhaps Protestantism and atheism do not give equally naturally.

And since we already have the promising report from the Council of Europe (to which the European Court of Human Rights "belongs"), let me mention one particular person:
the French judge at the European Court of Human Rights, Edmond Pettiti, at the time of the Olsson cases against Sweden. He is the judge that to my mind really stands out in Strasbourg. And he was a devout Catholic, I believe. He went extra strongly against the Swedish authorities in a dissenting opinion, expressing among other things the importance of the parents' love and "respect of their most sacred rights". Here it is:

•••
Olsson 2: PARTLY DISSENTING OPINION OF JUDGE PETTITI, JOINED BY
JUDGES MATSCHER* AND RUSSO

"The social welfare authorities displayed what was almost
contempt both for the national courts and the European Court. It is
somewhat surprising that neither the courts nor the governmental
authorities managed to force the "imperialism" of the social
services to give ground.

At no time did the social welfare authorities take the least
account of the love for their children that the parents sought to
express, a love that was demonstrated by the years of struggle in
proceedings to seek to obtain the return of the children and the
respect of their most sacred rights.

Clearly, the Olsson parents' attitude was not always
helpful, particularly after 1989, and they must therefore bear a
part of the responsibility. Yet one must not forget their despair
after the repeated failures with which they met even after the
favourable decisions of the European Court and the national courts
(see paragraph 53 et seq. of the present judgment)."
•••

A little more about the Olsson cases is included e.g in this article:
Norway and Sweden – where inhuman rights prevail
by Siv Westerberg

  

the cyberspace is just another battlefield...

The mother of the boys  is prohibited to take the pictures of boys and to post the old ones on internet.
The foster parents posted the pictures on Facebook
http://www.blesk.cz/clanek/zpravy-udalosti/302415/kauza-odebranych-ceskych-deti-v-norsku-pestouni-se-kluky-chlubi-na-facebooku-matce-to-bylo-zakazane.html

The Lithuanian case
http://en.delfi.lt/lithuania/society/norways-ambassador-to-lithuania-speaks-out-on-child-custody-controversy-involving-norwegian-child-services.d?id=67143444
http://en.delfi.lt/lithuania/foreign-affairs/lithuanian-foreig-minister-and-norwegian-ambassador-discuss-childrens-rights-protection.d?id=67106628
http://en.delfi.lt/lithuania/society/polish-investigator-who-kidnaps-lithuanian-children-from-norways-child-services-we-did-things-we-cannot-talk-about.d?id=67100792

The CPS in Norway are not happy. They complained that one of the Michalák boys  was able to find information about his case on internet. And this is bad.

I suppose if the foster parents are telling him, that his mother does not love him...and he can find different information...it is "bad".