Topic: Child Kidnappings by the Western-European States - page 14. (Read 72940 times)

  
  

I agree one would think it must take a very serious initial trigger to make the CPS take up a case. That is, however, not the case. And yes, an anonymous tip is all they need. Sweden and Denmark are the same. (Finland is probably much the same too, but the information is not so easily accessible to Scandinavians, since Finnish and Scandinavian are not mutually intelligible languages.)

Cases which turn out to be very serious and probably looked fairly serious from the start, are in fact sometimes not taken up by the CPS at all. Thus, we have in Norway over the last few years had one little boy die as the result of serious physical abuse by his stepfather. The CPS had been contacted (several times and over a long time, as far as I remember) but shrugged their shoulders. In another case several children (siblings) have been sexually abused over many years – the parents are now in prison (there has been some dispute among the children, but the convictions are probably just). Again, the CPS in the district had been contacted several times, but the leader of the CPS was a good friend of the mother in the case and refused to do anything. Just recently a boy has starved to death; his mother is now in a mental institution and the case is pending. The CPS had been called in but had "found nothing wrong".

Actually, I see that Grinder and Nemo1024 discussed such cases briefly back on 11 November:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.9500611
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.9510336
The case Grinder links to, is probably the same as the last one I just mentioned, but the article is open only to readers who are subscribers.

I more than agree that such cases do not outweigh the cases in which the CPS takes children who clearly should never have been deprived of their families, and whose life in foster care turns out a tragedy. They are not to be weighed against each other at all. The current CPS policy has nothing to do with perhaps making unfortunate decisions in complicated cases. Their basic tenet is that taking a child from its family and "planting" it in different soil has no ill effects whatsoever – all the bad results of foster care and institutional care are "explained" as after-effects of the parents' "deficiencies" and "bad influence"! Not even when the foster care is a long tragedy is the child allowed to go home. The CPS never acknowledge what their own actions have led to.

One reason why the CPS frequently develop psychobabble cases but omit to take up serious cases, is their incompetence – their inability to make realistic assessments or to use realistic measures to find out and to improve the situation for the child concerned. The CPS are really in over their heads in serious cases. Another reason is that in really violent families, in which the family members perhaps have ties to active criminals, the CPS are scared for themselves. Parents whose children are taken from them, react very strongly – as well they might – and if these parents belong to criminal circles, the social workers may be in serious danger.

Psychobabble cases, on the other hand, are all fiction, and this the social workers have been trained to develop. Such cases also provide a living for psychologists whom the CPS engage to write seemingly thorough reports, full of mumbo jumbo quackery, which impresses the courts. – Among such arguments one finds allegations of abnormal speech development or delayed language acquisition in the child. Neither the social workers nor the psychologists are competent at all to assess this, but it sounds scientific and of course they – on an equally unscientific basis – claim that the parents have caused this "deficiency" (I am a linguist myself, have been in court in such cases and have investigated several other cases and looked at what psychology textbooks say. It is deplorable.)

Many cases start by parents asking the social services for financial help. Others start because a child has difficulties at school or "makes trouble", or the parents "make trouble" for the school by demanding that the school stop some harassment going on between children. It is standard for head masters to claim that the child's troubles at school "in reality" stem from home.

Among the clearest indicators that the system is haywire, is the fact that the craziest, silliest arguments – even sheer invention – are all the time logged by the CPS and put into their reports which are presented in the courts, and that they are accepted by the courts. If a case was really so serious that the child had to be taken away from all its family, what need would they then have of coming up with the nonsense-arguments at all?

The list I referred to above:
An incomplete list of reasons given by the child protection services (CPS) of the Nordic countries for depriving children of their parents
is not one of only "first causes" of CPS involvement, but it may still go some way towards providing an answer to koshgel's question.

The articles below also throw some light on the range of "arguments" used when the CPS practice their profession. In the second article, the last section "Seeing the CWS in practice" gives a few details of the way literally "nothing" is twisted into "something serious". The last article I have already referred to for case c), but the other cases too illustrate that destroying family ties may be started by anything the CPS fancies.  

Joar Tranoy:
Child protection and the law

Aage Simonsen:
Norwegian child protection hits immigrants hard

Marianne Haslev Skånland:
The Child Protection Service (CPS) – unfortunately the cause of grievous harm
Part 2: Content, dimensions, causes and mechanisms of CPS activities

  

  
My fingers itch hyperactively to comment on several things in this thread, among them something back on p 3 from October/November, but let me first take up one posting which I consider to be among the most important recently:


We should take note: 1) this is happening - or has been going on - in many or even most countries (I think) in the Western world, and 2) it is not new. The whole history of how society or groups of do-good-ers have considered it their right to decide over and handle children is relevant.

As regards Switzerland: I am so ashamed that I am such a slow reader of German - I have to look up the dictionary all the time (and have no excuse, it is only laziness that I have never passed the threshold of good vocabulary incorporation) - my deficient German vocabulary makes it hard for me to search the web efficiently for articles and stuff in German. If leopard2 has some more interesting links, please post! In English or in German.

I remember there has been at least one child protection case in the European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg against Austria in which Austria was found guilty of a violation. I have also read one verdict from a Strasbourg case against Switzerland, in which Switzerland in fact won against the applicants. (In my opinion the state definitely should not have won.) I did not concern a child, but an old woman. The social workers had her forcibly moved to a "foster home" because she would not keep decent cleanliness at her home and the social workers claimed they could not help her there. So, in Switzerland it seems to be forbidden for adults to choose to be left in peace and go to hell if one wants.

What leopard2 says about mandatory kindergarten is a clear warning. We have sort of almost the same thing in Scandinavia, perhaps even more reprehensible, because it is not what it claims to be: officially it is not obligatory to have your children in kindergarten, but if you don't, all manner of "child expert" units are no end busy finding other faults with the child and you, claiming that if your child was at a kindergarten and did not see so much of you, these deficiencies would not be there. And of course, kindergarten personnel are taught to "diagnose" everything a child does and says as a proof of failed parenting. So then they take the child away. I have referred to one case which was on tv and in the press some years ago, and although there was a sort of mild reaction against the kindergarten and the CPS in the case, there was not - and never is - any change in the general attitude that everybody except the parents know best. It is case c) here:
The Child Protection Service (CPS) – unfortunately the cause of grievous harm
Part 2: Content, dimensions, causes and mechanisms of CPS activities

Some examples of kindergarten activities which may also support our understanding of the present system are found here (the whole list gives examples of claims which various institutions and their employees use to prove that children must not live with their parents): examples 12, 32, 35:
An incomplete list of reasons given by the child protection services (CPS) of the Nordic countries for depriving children of their parents
  
There was a comment under an article of mine in 2012 about Switzerland - I take the chance of showing it in its entirety:
"I saw a subtitled documentary on french channel TV5 about switzerland
and how it had been removing children from their homes for years for
the mildest of pranks like hiding the clothes from the clothes line of
a grouchy neighbour or listening to modern music not conforming to a
dress code They were kept in juvenile homes for years together .There
were actual victims( the children now adults )..speaking out about how
their lives had been ruined by this ..and their parents too similarly
had no recourse to the law to get their children ..the state
organisation had pychologist which branded them with tags like sexual
adicts ( because some underclothes had also been in the clothes hidden
from the clothesline )
The swiss story too echoed the things in this article and I think it
would be great if the hindu continues its coverage.
from:  Vinita Gill
Posted on: Jan 31, 2012 at 09:57 IST"

PS: I see that the Wikipedia article links to info about a film: Der Verdingbub (The Foster Boy). I am going to try to get hold of it.

  

Truer words have not been spoken. Hear! Hear!

Even though you don't hear about it much (unless you look), this is becoming an industry in the US, just like the prison industry, only for kids. Criminal organizations also infiltrate these offices and use them as fronts for child trafficking. As you mentioned before, the "big lie", this is just so horrific, people's minds refuse to believe it, just to avoid the mental anguish of having consciousness of such a horrible system that literally eats children for profit. Furthermore that instantly begs them to question... what are you going to do about it? People would rather pretend that these things don't exist so they can continue their lives an not feel obligated to correct society and humanity by simply denying reality.

  
After I had written the above, I did a search with some combinations of words like "child" "protective" services" "USA" "parents" etc, and up came of course an unending series. While not all protesters' stories seem verifiable, there are more than enough. I also suddenly remembered one, rare story I had of a US court protecting a girl against the CPS (I suppose it is rare because the courts so often accept whatever the CPS says and does, like it is here in Norway). I had myself written a comment, but thought mistakenly that I remembered that it took place in Florida, no doubt because there has been a great deal of trouble about an over-active CPS in Florida. This, then, is Texas:

Texas teen gets restraining order against Child Protective Services
30 September 2011

   "The family’s lawyer contends that thousands of children are needlessly taken from their families every year and placed into foster homes or group homes where they are abused.
    The girl’s family decided to fight back. They took CPS to court and asked for an order of protection, which the judge granted. The court ordered CPS to stay away from the girl and stop harming the chld in the name of “protecting” her."

  



Tecshare is right (unfortunately). Especially in the years 2000 - around 2005 I was in touch with a number of Americans, who wrote about their CPS cases, or other people's cases, on the internet, and I also mailed back and forth with some of them. America is fully as bad as Western Europe. One reason is almost certainly that most of the quack psychology that is used in so many child protection cases (and which underpins general beliefs about childhood and people) is extra popular in America; some of it has been invented there (though the biggest, baddest wolf Freud was of course European). For instance, the scandalous "kindergarten cases" - McMartin and others, are not an entirely different issue from what we are discussing.

*

There are and have been several US-based websites about CPS cases that are full of information from, among other things, official sources. This one has been running for several years:
Fight CPS

*

Also deserving some attention is the testimony of Nancy Shaefer, a senator in Georgia:
Nancy Shaefer exposes the EVIL CPS
On youtube 2009

Nancy Shaefer lost her senatie seat probably because of her fight for CPS-attacked families. She died under unclear circumstances; there were more than scattered rumours that she might have been killed precisely because she had fought strongly in the Senate of Georgia to have CPS cruelties stopped.

*

One particular article from Massachusetts News (that publication is known to be ultra-something-whatever-you-call-it in American politics, but I have found them credible in several articles I have seen about CPS matters and have found some independent confirmation):
Social Workers Meet Counter Protest at State House

Note: Here, then, we have social workers wanting money and jobs, and justifying their demands by reading out a list of a hundred children who have died, implying that social workers prevent children dying. Then they are faced with the information that 79 had died in CPS care, and the social workers actually confirmed that the 79 were among the hundred!

*

Koshgel is quite right to raise the question of whether things are the same in the USA, because that is what most of us think of immediately when we hear of abuse carried out by the social service: "It may be like that in some other country but I have never noticed it here at home in my own country."

The reason is that unfortunately, it is something like abuse in psychiatric hospitals: it affects relatively few people. We have grown up in/into a culture we then feel we know well, and there are always these "explanations" around: that the people who tell horror-stories about the CPS must be exaggerating, that they are bad parents, that they lie, that they are mentally unstable, that because they are involved, they are not objective. Some are - -, some do - -, but it pales beside what the social services do - serviced of people officially employed to assist children.

The bottom line is: The social services lie, and they have taken a leaf out of Joseph Goebbels' book: Don't tell small lies, because people are used to doing that themselves, so they will recognise them as lies. If you want to lie, tell huge lies, then people will say that this is so enormous that it can't be a lie.

Interesting. decades ago, the Swiss authorities did a similar thing, abducting children from their families and placing them as slaves with farmers. One of the darkest spots in Swiss history.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verdingkinder

Incredible that this is happening again, but on the other hand, people would not work for the government if they were not mentally ill, or unconscionable enough to hurt their fellow citizens in return for job security.  

The verdingkinder spirit is still highly alive in government authorities today, in Switzerland and elsewhere

If they could, governments would take children from their parents right after birth and turn them into obedient slaves. Switzerland has mandatory Kindergarten now, Germany tax financed daycares, and England school uniforms ... grab them while they're young.

I'm not really sure of the specifics after CPS gets involved but doesn't it take a serious situation to actually get CPS involved to have them take the child away?

In Norway it seems like I could simply make an anonymous report, and they would come take the child away without any other questions.

  
The BBC programme Question Time, today 8 January, (that is: now tonight,) http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04xtl6z, will probably have an interview with the parents and/or about the British case concerning the two Gujarati children which I wrote a little about above, in a posting on the 6 Jan:

Save Indian Children from First World Governments
blogs.Swarajya, 6 January 2015

It says on BBC's webpage that the programme will be available shortly after the broadcast.

  

Unfortunately US CPS is not much better. A lot of people don't realize that CPS is part of a "family court" which falls completely outside of the regular judicial system. This is a vestigial remainder of former eugenics courts from the past often used for forced sterilizations of minorities and "defectives". CPS is almost completely outside of the law, even in the US.

Wow what kind of system is this? Guilty until proven innocent? That is some scary shit for parents

I feel like here in the US the kid would have to have noticeable bruises or some kind of trauma for child protective services to get involved.

  
Here is a case in Britain, concerning children of Gujarati origin, which has stirred some sympathy in India:

Save Indian Children from First World Governments
blogs.Swarajya, 6 January 2015

British child "protection" is running amuck at the moment, especially with forced adoptions. I think I wrote something about that above.

A case from May last year, when 3 Russian girls (aged 13, 5 and 3) were taken right from their home and their parents, without even checking the allegations. I didn't know about that one either!

http://www.barnefjern.org/norways-removal-of-children-from-russian-mother-illegal-astakhov/

I don't care from which system the child and the mother are. I don't have to believe what ever your system tell me. I want to try it. Give me my fedex box, open it, open 2 bottles one for you, one for me. hmmm Coke. Great. next.

So if you believe to be able to deflect public eyes from your malpractices with a digitalizer still running, your are fucking pathetic. So to all of you questioning what is happening when a child is separated by the state from his mother, keep going. those little muppets telling you to stfu and accept their truth, say nothing to them, just move trough their emptiness.

so this was a little message of motivation . And remember it's a forum based on TRUSTLESS technology.

I found a couple of articles in English but published in Czechia about the Czech case we discussed especially on p 5 of this thread. The articles are from the middle of December but new enough - i.e. they contain some interesting bits. The Czechs have not calmed down about this case. I love the photo of the demonstration outside the Norwegian embassy in Prague. Both articles are open for comments, by the way.

Czech children to spend fourth Christmas in Norwegian foster care
The Prague Post, 10 December 2014

Mother files new custody complaint in Norway
Step is needed for Czech government to increase diplomatic pressure
MyPrague Magazine, 18 December 2014

  

The India / Stavanger case was an example of how Norway holds on to the children at all cost. It took action even from the Indian prime minister to get Norwegian government members to at last put sufficient pressure on the CPS boss in Stavanger to let the children be taken to their uncle. Norwegian authorities on all levels have given the CPS the right to decide what is best for children - against all common sense, because it is so obvious that they do not: they have no competence, no knowledge, no life's experience, and no respect for all that is known of the outcome of being separated from one's family, to make any such decision. And the politicians just do not do what they should do: Cancel the power of the CPS and deal with the court system etc directly. Cf my suggestion of a little revolution by setting up a "client committee" to do the job: Political program for child protection in local administration.

Sweden is just like Norway when it comes to having an almighty social service which confiscates children with gusto, and takes care that the children should be cut off from their family completely and never return. The Sweden / Malaysia case is a clear example:

Malaysian family in Sweden - children taken

This is a long thread about the case - I hardly think any readers here will go into each article, but even the article titles give quite a bit of information, and the sheer abundance of articles shows the amount of publicity the case drew in Malaysia.

Here, the parents were charged with physical abuse of their children, and were later found guilty and given jail sentences. But why were the children not allowed to meet their relatives who went to Sweden to help? Oh no, no such thing. Again sit took action from the Malaysian prime minister, who sent a deputy foreign minister to Sweden to negotiate with the Swedish authorities for the children to be allowed to return to Malaysia. And notice an even clearer example of the Scandinavian country attempting to never let go: Even with the children back with their relatives in Malaysia, Sweden demands to have reports sent to them and claims to have custody rights! My guess is that the Malaysian authorities have had to say yes to that before Sweden would let the children out. One of the last articles (p 6 of the thread) is about this: Custodial rights return only if Sweden is satisfied.
  
One might ask whether Western countries have taken leave of their senses completely. It seems to be kind of slave states we are running.

  

Should I treat it as a compliment that you decided to start a personal defamation attack on me? To answer your question, no one's paying, but you can join, for free. What you need to qualify is pure heart, intolerance of unfairness, and a certain optimism that was characteristic of Don Quixot.

  
I am very glad to see the video which Erik translated something from, because this was a case I remember fairly well, and I have in fact been wondering whether it was possible to find the video. And here it is! Cheers for barnefjern.org who found it and Erik for translating and bringing it to our attention!

The whole video, (including the part in which the psychologist Turid Kavli pressed and pressed the 6 year old girl into some kind of assent, by saying that she would not be let out of the room until she "confessed" that her stepfather had fucked her - Kavli uses just about the most vulgar and derogatory word for "fuck" too,) was actually a tv program sent on public television in Norway (about 10 - 18 years ago) either on tv2 or nrk, when the girl, then about 18-19 years old, had raised the case before the courts again, together with her stepfather (who had long since served his sentence, I seem to remember). He was then acquitted. Both the medical evidence and the psychobabble evidence used to convict him in the first court case had been perfectly incompetent.

In addition to interviewing the girl, they also interviewed Kavli, and as Scandinavian-speakers can hear, she makes no apology, in fact maintaining not only that she has done nothing wrong but fairly clearly sticks to it that although the proof might not be enough to ensure a conviction in court, it is so important to believe the children, and so many of them come afterwards and thank them. - Believe the children? Well, that girl was certainly one child whom Kavli did not believe.

Turid Kavli, as far as I remember, was later engaged to lead the so-called "trauma centre" in Trondheim, a place where they gave people psychotherapy and enticed them into "recalling repressed memories of sex abuse". The centre was at last shut down when a number of "patients" had complained that they certainly did not get any better from the "treatment" there, on the contrary they felt much worse.

But nobody has really taken the psychobabblers to task, ever. And just now in 2014 we are in Norway heading for a new deluge of sex abuse accusations, it seems, very many of which will no doubt be false and destroy new victims and families. Nor is it healthy for the future life of children to be pressed or psychobabbled into accusing their family members or others of abuse which has actually never taken place. Has anybody read Margaret Hagen's illuminating book Whores of the court ? She is/was a very realistic psychologist at Boston University doing research into perception. She investigated the psychobabble craze because her brother was suddenly accused of having committed abuse many years earlier, and she was thoroughly shocked at what clinical psychologists were doing. What did they base it on? On nothing, she writes. There is simply no research support at all for their claims.

All the people responsible for the last craze of false abuse accusations here in Norway had a set-back when the Bjugn case made it clear (though a lot of people will never admit it) that such accusations are quite often the product not of abuse but of unfounded speculations and beliefs of doctors and psychologists and social workers. But that was at the beginning of the 1990s. Now the crazies are back in full force.
  

Oh crap. I am uncovered.
Now I will poison everyone reading this thread with Polonium (through blockchain).

Looks like you are paying