Claw Machines: a category of gambling? - page 3.

nullama

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Quote from: mu_enrico on April 13, 2024, 11:02:02 AM

~snip~
True, many people don't know that the grip strength can be tweaked, so that it is loose for x amount of rounds.
This way even if the player aligns it perfectly with the target, the prize will fall prematurely before being delivered to the hole.
So two factors play and contribute to the winning chance: (1) grip strength and (2) positioning. Basically, whether or not the player is skilled, there is still randomness in the game.

Interesting.

In that case I guess there must be some kind of standard or something that can be tested to make sure the machine is working at the correct level of randomness.

At least gambling machines have to pass certain standards criteria to have the license to operate.

Otherwise you could just have the grip always loose and never pay out the prizes.

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Quote from: mu_enrico on April 13, 2024, 11:02:02 AM

Quote from: Betwrong on April 11, 2024, 08:56:45 AM

It's not a game of skill, many people in this thread said it, and I agree with them. It's an illusion that the creators of this game bore in mind when they were making it. It would be a game of skill, more or less, if after you captured the prize it were guaranteed that you'll get it. Unfortunately, we all know that more often than not it's not the case.

True, many people don't know that the grip strength can be tweaked, so that it is loose for x amount of rounds.
This way even if the player aligns it perfectly with the target, the prize will fall prematurely before being delivered to the hole.
So two factors play and contribute to the winning chance: (1) grip strength and (2) positioning. Basically, whether or not the player is skilled, there is still randomness in the game.

Indeed, this game can be regulated in such way by the management and the working program can be changed at any time to make the game much more difficult to win and this game is like the Western Dream Arcade game machine where the drive that pushes the coins can be adjusted according to the manager wishes.
Everything is aimed at preventing gamblers from achieving big wins or jackpots and only luck can really influence whether they can win big or not.
It is important to remember that all machine games like this can be easily manipulated and we must be careful when playing them, unless we are playing for fun and entertainment.

What is clear is that luck will really be the main basis for achieving success and even though the strength of the grip has been adjusted, but luck is on our side, we will definitely get this prize.
Skills in machine games like this are just nonsense and if think have the skills to win prizes and keep paying then in the end will suffer big losses.

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Quote from: FinneysTrueVision on April 13, 2024, 01:56:38 AM

It is not considered to be gambling because the element of fairness is absent due to the owner of the machine being able to adjust its sensitivity any time they wish. Customers have no way of knowing beforehand that it is rigged against them, you just have to assume that it might be. There is no way to come up with odds of actually getting a prize, but the odds can be zero in some cases.

For games of luck, participants are betting with variables that they are familiar with. With these rigged games, however, you are going in entirely blind, not knowing whether you are flushing money away.

Rigged games are caused by the accessible data been leaked out for hackers. We should be on zero pay whenever the system is against our predictions and accuracy is shortened. Flushing money away is not our fault because we have no idea how the system operates and the laydown codes that's been inputed in data files of the system, thereby leading to be another form of insecurities. There ought to be existence of fairness in the system but when I doubt if they will be maintained.

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Quote from: uneng on March 31, 2024, 01:29:40 PM

-snip-
Do you consider this a category of gambling game?

Yes, I consider this as a gambling game but not the typical one. For the fact that you use your money to play it, and you are playing for the purpose of what it will give you in return, then you are taking a risk for something which is gambling. This is the kind that little children can even participate in as well, and as a matter of fact, they are doing it. This may just be when they and their parents visit such a mall with such a facility, they may go there, put their coin and try their luck. It is so joyful to these children if they win something in this arrangement, which is why I can term it as light gambling with a possible little attachment. It's a way to have extra fun at malls aside from shopping.

Quote

What are the chances on long run?

While playing this kind of light game, do not create much importance to it than for the fun for the moment. And as for me, I see the chance here to be 50/50. You are just trying your luck, but in a light way, nothing is to be taken seriously here. It is not a place where you can hit that Jackpot.

Quote

Skills matter, or do you have to be lucky, nevertheless?

It's practical my friend, no skills will help you win more, you only have to rely on luck. Just like casinos, the system of this machine has been structured in a certain way, it is only luck that will deliver the winning in this regard.

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Quote from: Findingnemo on April 13, 2024, 02:46:44 AM

-snip-
Claw machines are rigged but users who has skills know how to make use of it, like you said swinging technique is one of the effective method to get the prize but we don't really play for the prize but just to experience it right?

When the claw machine has been rigged, of course, it will be a claw machine that is difficult to conquer.
But there will always be other ways or tricks to be able to overcome it and related to the swing technique is just one of the tricks, but I myself saw how technicians who tune the claw machine are very easy to use the swing technique, but they also tune how strong the claw grip is.
The grip of the claws will be strong when you have inserted more coins

Of course, what is sought is actually not a doll or other gift, but how to be able to conquer the claw machine and feel the sensation.
Some claw machines also give great prizes such as iPhones and other gadgets.

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Quote from: Betwrong on April 11, 2024, 08:56:45 AM

It's not a game of skill, many people in this thread said it, and I agree with them. It's an illusion that the creators of this game bore in mind when they were making it. It would be a game of skill, more or less, if after you captured the prize it were guaranteed that you'll get it. Unfortunately, we all know that more often than not it's not the case.

True, many people don't know that the grip strength can be tweaked, so that it is loose for x amount of rounds.
This way even if the player aligns it perfectly with the target, the prize will fall prematurely before being delivered to the hole.
So two factors play and contribute to the winning chance: (1) grip strength and (2) positioning. Basically, whether or not the player is skilled, there is still randomness in the game.

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Quote from: Ultegra134 on April 13, 2024, 01:43:19 AM

Quote from: Muchiratsky on April 09, 2024, 09:23:32 PM

I didn't say it's an actual scam, though. It's a personal point of view, and I'm sure I'm not the only one seeing it that way. Also, being persistent means spending more time and money on something that would probably be cheaper if you buy directly. You'll be spending a lot more trying to get plush toys from claw machines than buying these toys from actual toy stores. There are people who are good in playing claw machines but I'll bet there are a whole lot more who just end up spending on tokens and getting nothing. It's generally a good place to waste time and money. Note the term "waste" Cheesy

Damn right, are they a scam? I am not exactly sure, but the odds are certainly not in your favor. God, these are awful machines. They have a worse grip than a newborn baby, and 9 out of 10 times when you pick something up, it'll fall right next to the exit latch. I've remembered them since childhood, and I don't recall ever winning anything. Can they be considered gambling? Certainly yes. Not all claw machines have stuffed animals inside; there are others that feature expensive devices, watches, electronics, or even cash prizes. There are even found in casinos, while they're spreading like a virus at almost every location.

Well it looks like to win, you'll have to make multiple attempts. I've seen someone on youtube that it takes a few consecutive tries before the clamp becomes stiffer or more rigid. If that's the case, I don't see why it's not a scam. People would be drawn to play amidst multiple losses just to get a prize that's not worth the amount of the tokens you've used. But I understand some people who feel that this needs perseverance. I just don't share their few. It's not something that I would want to persevere for since I see it as a waste of money. The process is even more annoying that enjoying. Again this is my perspective and, of course, there are people who do enjoy this activity despite the disappointments that come with actually getting a prize.

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Quote from: taufik123 on April 12, 2024, 11:36:06 PM

Quote from: gunhell16 on April 12, 2024, 10:24:06 PM

That claw machine is difficult when you play it; you need two other tokens to play it. It's rare to win that claw machine, but there are others who are obsessed with it and have fun with it because the others seem to have a technique to do it. And I don't know what that is.

Second, can that be considered gambling? because you are not betting on anything, but once you can drop a token, then you can perform clawing; whatever you get that can be stuck
in the claw is yours.

A few months ago, I even found it in my brother's shop.
Claw machines like this have been set so that claws are not easy to grip dolls, so more experiments will be done to try to take dolls.

Believe it or not, according to some people or according to technicians, there are several techniques that can be done such as swinging the claw and then dropping it or waiting until the claw time ends, or before the claw drops automatically.

I tried everything but some did fail, but sometimes with the swing technique I can pick up some dummy with a lot of trying.
If this is said to be gambling, maybe it could be like that because there will be an addictive effect to keep trying and trying again until you get a doll.

Claw machines come under the arcade games category not really under gambling but for the sake we can say we spent a penny to take that call. Claw machines are rigged but users who has skills know how to make use of it, like you said swinging technique is one of the effective method to get the prize but we don't really play for the prize but just to experience it right?

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It is not considered to be gambling because the element of fairness is absent due to the owner of the machine being able to adjust its sensitivity any time they wish. Customers have no way of knowing beforehand that it is rigged against them, you just have to assume that it might be. There is no way to come up with odds of actually getting a prize, but the odds can be zero in some cases.

For games of luck, participants are betting with variables that they are familiar with. With these rigged games, however, you are going in entirely blind, not knowing whether you are flushing money away.

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Quote from: Muchiratsky on April 09, 2024, 09:23:32 PM

I didn't say it's an actual scam, though. It's a personal point of view, and I'm sure I'm not the only one seeing it that way. Also, being persistent means spending more time and money on something that would probably be cheaper if you buy directly. You'll be spending a lot more trying to get plush toys from claw machines than buying these toys from actual toy stores. There are people who are good in playing claw machines but I'll bet there are a whole lot more who just end up spending on tokens and getting nothing. It's generally a good place to waste time and money. Note the term "waste" Cheesy

Damn right, are they a scam? I am not exactly sure, but the odds are certainly not in your favor. God, these are awful machines. They have a worse grip than a newborn baby, and 9 out of 10 times when you pick something up, it'll fall right next to the exit latch. I've remembered them since childhood, and I don't recall ever winning anything. Can they be considered gambling? Certainly yes. Not all claw machines have stuffed animals inside; there are others that feature expensive devices, watches, electronics, or even cash prizes. There are even found in casinos, while they're spreading like a virus at almost every location.

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Quote from: gunhell16 on April 12, 2024, 10:24:06 PM

That claw machine is difficult when you play it; you need two other tokens to play it. It's rare to win that claw machine, but there are others who are obsessed with it and have fun with it because the others seem to have a technique to do it. And I don't know what that is.

Second, can that be considered gambling? because you are not betting on anything, but once you can drop a token, then you can perform clawing; whatever you get that can be stuck
in the claw is yours.

A few months ago, I even found it in my brother's shop.
Claw machines like this have been set so that claws are not easy to grip dolls, so more experiments will be done to try to take dolls.

Believe it or not, according to some people or according to technicians, there are several techniques that can be done such as swinging the claw and then dropping it or waiting until the claw time ends, or before the claw drops automatically.

I tried everything but some did fail, but sometimes with the swing technique I can pick up some dummy with a lot of trying.
If this is said to be gambling, maybe it could be like that because there will be an addictive effect to keep trying and trying again until you get a doll.

In fact, I can try dozens of times to get a Doll that is certainly not more expensive than the money I spent to buy coins.
The claw machine is only an entertainment and not to be used as a place to make a profit.

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That claw machine is difficult when you play it; you need two other tokens to play it. It's rare to win that claw machine, but there are others who are obsessed with it and have fun with it because the others seem to have a technique to do it. And I don't know what that is.

Second, can that be considered gambling? because you are not betting on anything, but once you can drop a token, then you can perform clawing; whatever you get that can be stuck
in the claw is yours.

nullama

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Quote from: Betwrong on April 11, 2024, 08:56:45 AM

~snip~
It's not a game of skill, many people in this thread said it, and I agree with them. It's an illusion that the creators of this game bore in mind when they were making it. It would be a game of skill, more or less, if after you captured the prize it were guaranteed that you'll get it. Unfortunately, we all know that more often than not it's not the case.

I have seen people winning prizes at some claw machines, so it is possible.

Of course some machines might be rigged, as every machine is different. But in theory, it should be possible to win.

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Claw machine are similar, but not as addictive as in-game purchases. In-game purchases, now that is a real gambling addiction, not slots or table games. In regular gambling, you at least might get something (money) in exchange for spend money. Claw machines gives you toys. In-game purchases gives you... extra lives, skins, higher jumps or something random. They are more evil than regular gambling. As it is a form of a legal cheating or useless crap in exchange for money.

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Quote from: TopTort777 on April 10, 2024, 05:49:00 AM

Btw, all that video gaming stuff (skins, loot boxes, purchases to get extra strength over regular players) does not defined as gambling (at least from what Ive heard). Its in-game purchases. Even though players pay real money to test their luck.

I think it depends on where you live too no? Some countries are strict with rules related to microtransactions and as far as I can tell most gamers seem to agree that gacha or loot boxes in general are a form of gambling. Skins or in-game cosmetics should be different though, since there's no randomness over there. I believe claw machines are quite similar to skins in the sense that the randomness is not as big as others, or exists at all. I do agree that it still has gambling elements regardless of how people justify its existence and placement in public places.

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Quote from: acroman08 on March 31, 2024, 03:05:23 PM

Quote from: uneng on March 31, 2024, 01:29:40 PM

Do you consider this a category of gambling game? What are the chances on long run? Skills matter, or do you have to be lucky, nevertheless?

Kind of, I mean you are staking "money" to play it. while majority of claw machines I see gives out stuff toys or candies there are some that gives out money or other valuable or expensive prizes.

anyway, claw machines are notoriously rigged, I've read articles talking about how the claw on claw machines are programed to grab tight only after certain amount of plays.

They are rigged as hell. When I was a kid, claw machines and other similar machines were very popular, especially the one where you had to put the coin and you would receive nothing or it would be randomly multiplied and available for withdrawal. I had a stroke of very good luck on both machines, I remember my father was thirsty and I won a beer on the claw machine, he was very happy. I also had a moment in my life when I won so much on one of these machines during my childhood that they banned me and prohibited my father from bringing me these machines, I clearly remember those days.

I personally consider claw machines a category of gambling because it's very similar to slots machine, you put the coin and then you depend on your luck, you might win something or not, just like in slots.

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Quote from: nullama on April 09, 2024, 03:53:46 AM

Quote from: mu_enrico on April 08, 2024, 11:09:08 AM

I don't recommend playing this machine since there's no fairness certification, unlike slot machines with certification or a license. If the prize is just a toy, then it's not gambling by definition, but if the prize is money, then it's gambling. This machine is easy to tweak or compromise, so even if you're a skilled "crawler," you still can get bad results. There are many YouTube videos testing and explaining this machine.

In a casino the prizes are tokens, redeemable to money.

Not sure if that is the main difference as you can also exchange the toy for money.

I think the main difference, legally speaking, is that one is a game of chance (gambling) and the other is a game of skill (crawl machine)

It's not a game of skill, many people in this thread said it, and I agree with them. It's an illusion that the creators of this game bore in mind when they were making it. It would be a game of skill, more or less, if after you captured the prize it were guaranteed that you'll get it. Unfortunately, we all know that more often than not it's not the case.

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Quote from: o48o on April 10, 2024, 07:01:24 AM

Well, technically they are, as they have designed to be work around for gambling regulations. Regulations on those can vary a lot, and so do the prices. I would assume that even owners of claw machines can't keep up with rapidly developed laws around them, as it's not too long ago as i saw i phones as price as a part of a carnival, that was passing by. And obviously drunk poor people saw that as an opportunity to show of their skills. These days that would get them charges on fraud because i am certain there are price limits for prizes on them.

Personally i don't see them as gambling because they are proven to be rigged many times, so i would classify them as scams.

But you have heard stories that casinos scam their customers. With surprised KYC before withdrawal for example. Yet I believe you do gamble anyway. Even if claw machines are scam, they are kind of a soft scam Cheesy

They wont scam you for thousands or millions. And you will get a prize in the end with some persistence, while it will take hell of a time and luck to win jackpot even if you are super persistent. As a light form of gambling, claw machines does not require special licenses to operate. What I say, that even if they are scam, nobody cares as long as they get their plushie Cheesy

nullama

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Quote from: o48o on April 10, 2024, 07:01:24 AM

Well, technically they are, as they have designed to be work around for gambling regulations. Regulations on those can vary a lot, and so do the prices. I would assume that even owners of claw machines can't keep up with rapidly developed laws around them, as it's not too long ago as i saw i phones as price as a part of a carnival, that was passing by. And obviously drunk poor people saw that as an opportunity to show of their skills. These days that would get them charges on fraud because i am certain there are price limits for prizes on them.

Personally i don't see them as gambling because they are proven to be rigged many times, so i would classify them as scams.

Yeah, maybe. I actually see them more closely related to scams than gambling like you said...

But I wouldn't say they are a scam, because you can in theory win the prize. It's just very unlikely.

But it's also not gambling because even though it is unlikely, it is not random. It's just a very difficult thing to do.

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Quote from: o48o on April 10, 2024, 07:01:24 AM

Well, technically they are, as they have designed to be work around for gambling regulations. Regulations on those can vary a lot, and so do the prices. I would assume that even owners of claw machines can't keep up with rapidly developed laws around them, as it's not too long ago as i saw i phones as price as a part of a carnival, that was passing by. And obviously drunk poor people saw that as an opportunity to show of their skills. These days that would get them charges on fraud because i am certain there are price limits for prizes on them.

Personally i don't see them as gambling because they are proven to be rigged many times, so i would classify them as scams.

That seems like a fair assessment, I mean those claw machines give the impression you can win with some regularity as the machine is not completely random and your input supposedly can determine the outcome, however if this was true then a few persons should be able to get all the prizes out of those machines, but since this is not the case, it is clear the claw machine must have been manipulated in some way for this to not happen, so in a way they are a form of scam.

Topic: Claw Machines: a category of gambling? - page 3. (Read 1247 times)