Cleanup: I'll attack some coins - I owned APEXcoin for 90 blocks - page 11.

kiklo

legendary

Activity: 1092

Merit: 1000

Quote from: ArticMine on January 16, 2015, 07:52:18 PM

Quote from: CryptoClub on January 16, 2015, 07:07:39 PM

Just what we need after Bitcoin is crashing and people are afraid of hacking, make people afraid of alts and Bitcoin, so they use Apple Pay. Brilliant.

If there are vulnerabilities, maybe inform legit people of them so they can try to repair them, instead of running some new scam?

People should be afraid of POS. It is at a very fundamental level no different from Apple, or a wall street bank, without the safety net provided by the government regulators. POS is a bad emulation of wall street. POW is a good emulation of gold.

Edit: This is not as simple as a code vulnerability that a dev can fix. It is very fundamental.

POW is less safe than POS, because all you need is over 51% mining and you can double spend .
Miners start dropping off as POW mining no longer keeps their profit margin high enough.
POS miners profit margin to stake does not force them to shut down like a POW miner.

If all of us trust government , there would be no cryptocoins.
Cryptocoins exist because less people trust their governments everyday.

Cool

ArticMine

legendary

Activity: 2282

Merit: 1050

Monero Core Team

Quote from: CryptoClub on January 16, 2015, 07:07:39 PM

Just what we need after Bitcoin is crashing and people are afraid of hacking, make people afraid of alts and Bitcoin, so they use Apple Pay. Brilliant.

If there are vulnerabilities, maybe inform legit people of them so they can try to repair them, instead of running some new scam?

People should be afraid of POS. It is at a very fundamental level no different from Apple, or a wall street bank, without the safety net provided by the government regulators. POS is a bad emulation of wall street. POW is a good emulation of gold.

Edit: This is not as simple as a code vulnerability that a dev can fix. It is very fundamental.

Damelon

legendary

Activity: 1092

Merit: 1010

Quote from: Crestington on January 16, 2015, 07:41:38 PM

Quote from: CryptoClub on January 16, 2015, 07:07:39 PM

Just what we need after Bitcoin is crashing and people are afraid of hacking, make people afraid of alts and Bitcoin, so they use Apple Pay. Brilliant.

If there are vulnerabilities, maybe inform legit people of them so they can try to repair them, instead of running some new scam?

Best when these things are open because it solves the issue quicker, MintCoin survived and is stronger because of it.

Plus: I hardly think we're going to convince him nót to do it. Cheesy

I'd rather conserve my energy and learn what we can if he's going to do it anyway

Crestington

legendary

Activity: 882

Merit: 1024

Quote from: CryptoClub on January 16, 2015, 07:07:39 PM

Just what we need after Bitcoin is crashing and people are afraid of hacking, make people afraid of alts and Bitcoin, so they use Apple Pay. Brilliant.

If there are vulnerabilities, maybe inform legit people of them so they can try to repair them, instead of running some new scam?

Best when these things are open because it solves the issue quicker, MintCoin survived and is stronger because of it.

stevegreer

legendary

Activity: 1148

Merit: 1001

Official Zeitcoin community ambassador

Quote from: CryptoClub on January 16, 2015, 07:07:39 PM

Just what we need after Bitcoin is crashing and people are afraid of hacking, make people afraid of alts and Bitcoin, so they use Apple Pay. Brilliant.

If there are vulnerabilities, maybe inform legit people of them so they can try to repair them, instead of running some new scam?

+1

CryptoClub

legendary

Activity: 1470

Merit: 1000

cryptocollectorsclub.com

Just what we need after Bitcoin is crashing and people are afraid of hacking, make people afraid of alts and Bitcoin, so they use Apple Pay. Brilliant.

If there are vulnerabilities, maybe inform legit people of them so they can try to repair them, instead of running some new scam?

stevegreer

legendary

Activity: 1148

Merit: 1001

Official Zeitcoin community ambassador

Quote from: Hueristic on January 16, 2015, 06:51:53 PM

Quote from: stevegreer on January 16, 2015, 06:30:50 PM

I have a valid question, that I'm surprised no one has asked yet. What gives you the right to decide that any coin at all needs to be attacked? It shouldn't matter what your opinion is of any particular coin, there are people who have money tied up in those coins, and you are bragging about having the ability to kill those coins and cause people to lose their money. The fact that you are publicly posting this threat is either incredibly bold, or incredibly stupid.

If however the point you are trying to make is to be some way beneficial to the devs and can be used to strengthen the block chains to prevent attacks like this from happening, then more power to you.

Please tell you I didn't say what?

EvilDave

hero member

Activity: 854

Merit: 1001

Quote from: ArticMine on January 16, 2015, 04:47:29 PM

The real test for NXT will come if someone sets up a ponzi using NXT.

I have a funny feeling someone did.....
Yep, they did.
and then...
Someone else did it, too. Twice.

Moving swiftly on....I reckon it would be a good idea to give cynicSOB a go on the NXT TestNet. That way, we can provide him with as much TestNXT as he needs to carry out an attack, without worrying too much about incurring real-world costs. And, if any of this works out, we should discuss a bounty.....

Have the Apexcoin devs shown any reaction, thanks or communication about the attack ?

Hueristic

legendary

Activity: 3836

Merit: 4969

Doomed to see the future and unable to prevent it

Quote from: stevegreer on January 16, 2015, 06:30:50 PM

I have a valid question, that I'm surprised no one has asked yet. What gives you the right to decide that any coin at all needs to be attacked? It shouldn't matter what your opinion is of any particular coin, there are people who have money tied up in those coins, and you are bragging about having the ability to kill those coins and cause people to lose their money. The fact that you are publicly posting this threat is either incredibly bold, or incredibly stupid.

If however the point you are trying to make is to be some way beneficial to the devs and can be used to strengthen the block chains to prevent attacks like this from happening, then more power to you.

stevegreer

legendary

Activity: 1148

Merit: 1001

Official Zeitcoin community ambassador

I have a valid question, that I'm surprised no one has asked yet. What gives you the right to decide that any coin at all needs to be attacked? It shouldn't matter what your opinion is of any particular coin, there are people who have money tied up in those coins, and you are bragging about having the ability to kill those coins and cause people to lose their money. The fact that you are publicly posting this threat is either incredibly bold, or incredibly stupid.

If however the point you are trying to make is to be some way beneficial to the devs and can be used to strengthen the block chains to prevent attacks like this from happening, then more power to you.

ArticMine

legendary

Activity: 2282

Merit: 1050

Monero Core Team

The real test for NXT will come if someone sets up a ponzi using NXT.

speedy1987

sr. member

Activity: 462

Merit: 250

Quote from: TwinWinNerD on January 16, 2015, 03:30:20 PM

Quote from: cynicSOB on December 18, 2014, 12:20:25 PM

lots of people complain about the quantity of coins and how the forum is flooded... some proposed ideas to clean it up....
I'll show you how it's done - I'll start attacking weak coins accelerating their death

just wait and see the results, I'll soon show the first victim. Let's start with PoS coins: some people think you need 51% of the supply but this is bs, you need only a very little % if you just want to do a single double spend.

the point of this thread is to see how people react to this: I won't steal from anyone, but some may lose "money".

Some questions:

1. is this a good idea?
2. would you donate so I can attack more POS coins? (maybe spare some coins you are bagholding)
3. would you pay to know the time of the attack and the victim in advance?
4. would you pay for "double spend as a service" (in this case you decide coin and the timing of the attack)?
5. is this legal?
6. do you think someone would pay to have me killed?

go!

update: apexcoin attack successful witih 0,07% of available supply

Do NXT pls and PM me a result. Will donate a bit if successful.

yeesss please.
NXT is badass.

Damelon

legendary

Activity: 1092

Merit: 1010

I agree, interesting thread and am curious about future results

Whatever comes out.

Bookmarking thread.

valarmg

full member

Activity: 237

Merit: 100

Pretty cool to see attacks being carried out, and I'm a fan of PoS.

How much does changing the PoS algorithm like this (https://blackcoin.co/blackcoin-pos-protocol-v2-whitepaper.pdf) make it more difficult to attack?

TwinWinNerD

legendary

Activity: 1680

Merit: 1001

CEO Bitpanda.com

Quote from: cynicSOB on December 18, 2014, 12:20:25 PM

lots of people complain about the quantity of coins and how the forum is flooded... some proposed ideas to clean it up....
I'll show you how it's done - I'll start attacking weak coins accelerating their death

just wait and see the results, I'll soon show the first victim. Let's start with PoS coins: some people think you need 51% of the supply but this is bs, you need only a very little % if you just want to do a single double spend.

the point of this thread is to see how people react to this: I won't steal from anyone, but some may lose "money".

Some questions:

1. is this a good idea?
2. would you donate so I can attack more POS coins? (maybe spare some coins you are bagholding)
3. would you pay to know the time of the attack and the victim in advance?
4. would you pay for "double spend as a service" (in this case you decide coin and the timing of the attack)?
5. is this legal?
6. do you think someone would pay to have me killed?

go!

update: apexcoin attack successful witih 0,07% of available supply

Do NXT pls and PM me a result. Will donate a bit if successful.

cynicSOB

member

Activity: 106

Merit: 10

yes, sometimes I'm a cynical SOB

Quote from: _mr_e on January 16, 2015, 08:11:21 AM

I would bet that this is not the case for btcd. Very high hodl and stake rate due to high incentives.

You would loose your bet. btcd doesn't have a max staking age, meaning if you wait long enough you can attack with as few coins as you want. It's even in a worse position than most others.

_mr_e

legendary

Activity: 817

Merit: 1000

Quote from: cynicSOB on January 16, 2015, 07:42:45 AM

Quote from: _mr_e on January 16, 2015, 07:21:44 AM

So basically you can't hit anything of any kind of value. Looks like the incentives are working to me. This thread is a joke.

Coins claiming an attack requires 51% of supply are the joke. The point of this thread is: "51% my ass, it's actually about 5% for big coins and I did it with less than 1% to a small coin". Not joking about this.

I would bet that this is not the case for btcd. Very high hodl and stake rate due to high incentives.

cynicSOB

member

Activity: 106

Merit: 10

yes, sometimes I'm a cynical SOB

Quote from: achimsmile on January 16, 2015, 07:48:06 AM

I appreciate your research.

In Nxt, base target gets easier to hit after a long block, but for every account, not just the ones under your control. How would it benefit you?

Thanks.

Yes, but in PPC-style POS the coin age affects every address too and I was able to benefit from it, right? so the fact that it affects everyone is not a problem.

On top of this, I think how the rounding is done in NXT to adjust the difficulty can be gamed for personal benefit. I don't remember exactly, but it's rounded to 30 seconds, right?

cynicSOB

member

Activity: 106

Merit: 10

yes, sometimes I'm a cynical SOB

Quote from: iGotSpots on January 16, 2015, 12:24:09 AM

The wiki is just copy paste I don't think anyone updated it yet

Ok, wikis are not expected to be 100% accurate.

Quote from: iGotSpots on January 16, 2015, 12:24:09 AM

Stake weight is more than twice what the entire supply is lol please.

Ok, then I need 2x the supply. Or maybe I need 1/30 of that and wait 30 days. So I need 1/15 of the supply. That's 6,6% according to your weight estimate. Not far from the 5% that I mentioned. So again: Not 50%. More like 6%

Quote from: iGotSpots on January 16, 2015, 12:24:09 AM

There's no way you would even be able to afford buying enough to do it.

It's only 10BTC but yes, you are right: I can't afford it.

Quote from: iGotSpots on January 16, 2015, 12:24:09 AM

Let's see how good you are when the total percentage for sale is in the single digits

It's true: there's not much for sale at exchanges. But I think that is because of the high staking %, nobody leaves their coins at exchanges and everyone prefers to stake them. I suspect more people are willing to sell than what the exchanges show.

Quote from: iGotSpots on January 16, 2015, 12:24:09 AM

Challenge issued

I'll have it in mind

achimsmile

legendary

Activity: 1225

Merit: 1000

Quote from: cynicSOB on January 15, 2015, 04:12:49 PM

It's true that the last checkpoint for APEX was months ago, but checkpoints wouldn't help against this because I'm rewinding only the few last blocks.

I know some Java, and I'd like to do Nxt eventually - it doesn't have coin age but it has something similar: the time since the last block makes your target easier as time goes by...

I appreciate your research.

In Nxt, base target gets easier to hit after a long block, but for every account, not just the ones under your control. How would it benefit you?

Topic: Cleanup: I'll attack some coins - I owned APEXcoin for 90 blocks - page 11. (Read 17268 times)