Cleanup: I'll attack some coins - I owned APEXcoin for 90 blocks - page 12.

cynicSOB

member

Activity: 106

Merit: 10

yes, sometimes I'm a cynical SOB

Quote from: _mr_e on January 16, 2015, 08:21:44 AM

So basically you can't hit anything of any kind of value. Looks like the incentives are working to me. This thread is a joke.

Coins claiming an attack requires 51% of supply are the joke. The point of this thread is: "51% my ass, it's actually about 5% for big coins and I did it with less than 1% to a small coin". Not joking about this.

_mr_e

legendary

Activity: 817

Merit: 1000

Quote from: cynicSOB link=topic=897493.msg10169013#msg10169013
[quote author=_mr_e link=topic=897493.msg10168891#msg10168891 date=1421360574

So how about you hit BitcoinDark? Low market cap, center of SuperNet, can't think of a juicier target then that!

I'll take a look, but a market cap of 1M USD is not that low... at least for my budget

[/quote]

So basically you can't hit anything of any kind of value. Looks like the incentives are working to me. This thread is a joke.

iGotSpots

legendary

Activity: 2548

Merit: 1054

CPU Web Mining 🕸️ on webmining.io

Quote from: cynicSOB on January 15, 2015, 09:58:22 PM

Thanks all for the nxt leasing offers. I still need to investigate the code with more detail first...

Quote from: MMXIV on January 15, 2015, 07:53:34 PM

You can try attacking MMXIV if you want, but it won't work

Of course it will work, for this simple unsofisticated attack I only need 600 coins and 30 days. 600 MMXIV: that's 5% of the supply. Less than 9 BTC at current rates. Anyone cares to donate?
btc here: 1EqekC9YVhiWLYjG3mfKNJwrf5s3YS46WW

A more complex attack may need even less. I think that with 2,8BTC I have a 50% chance of 6 blocks in a row every day, but I haven't tested the math behind this....

And you have it wrong in your wiki: "someone holding 50% of the currency will generate 50% of all proof-of-stake coin blocks". Of course not. Someone that can stake 50% of the coins acively at stake will generate 50% of blocks. But that's much less than 50% of the currency.

The wiki is just copy paste I don't think anyone updated it yet

Stake weight is more than twice what the entire supply is lol please. There's no way you would even be able to afford buying enough to do it. Let's see how good you are when the total percentage for sale is in the single digits

Challenge issued

cynicSOB

member

Activity: 106

Merit: 10

yes, sometimes I'm a cynical SOB

Thanks all for the nxt leasing offers. I still need to investigate the code with more detail first...

Quote from: MMXIV on January 15, 2015, 07:53:34 PM

You can try attacking MMXIV if you want, but it won't work

Of course it will work, for this simple unsofisticated attack I only need 600 coins and 30 days. 600 MMXIV: that's 5% of the supply. Less than 9 BTC at current rates. Anyone cares to donate?
btc here: 1EqekC9YVhiWLYjG3mfKNJwrf5s3YS46WW

A more complex attack may need even less. I think that with 2,8BTC I have a 50% chance of 6 blocks in a row every day, but I haven't tested the math behind this....

And you have it wrong in your wiki: "someone holding 50% of the currency will generate 50% of all proof-of-stake coin blocks". Of course not. Someone that can stake 50% of the coins acively at stake will generate 50% of blocks. But that's much less than 50% of the currency.

Crestington

legendary

Activity: 882

Merit: 1024

Quote from: cynicSOB on January 15, 2015, 06:37:25 PM

Quote from: Crestington on January 15, 2015, 06:22:33 PM

I don't think being fully decentralized truly matters, having a centralized checkpointer can often be better since there are many people that work in a decentralized fashion but could be trusted enough to manage the checkpointing. IMO a centralized checkpointer is better than a decentralized currency with an open attack vector.

no way. I prefer old-fashioned POW over anything POS with a centralized checkpoint.

Let's not get off topic about which implementation is better, I prefer Proof of Stake but also like decentralization and open source so this is very good research for me for helping to solve possible exploits.

MMXIV

full member

Activity: 252

Merit: 120

You can try attacking MMXIV if you want, but it won't work

xyzzyx

sr. member

Activity: 490

Merit: 250

I don't really come from outer space.

Quote from: lopalcar on January 15, 2015, 07:07:44 PM

First a clone and then nxt with a more strong network would be great, keep us informed of your intentions and ask for leasing in the nxt forum if you decide to try it

I currently only own about 20K NXT but I'd lease my forging rights to cynicSOB if he wants to try attacking Nxt's PoS.

lopalcar

sr. member

Activity: 312

Merit: 254

Quote from: cynicSOB on January 15, 2015, 06:37:25 PM

Quote from: lopalcar on January 15, 2015, 06:27:51 PM

In order to check if your attack approach works with nxt, wouldn't it work only with the effective balance? It's what is important to forge, in this this case, you wouldn't need any budget, sure some whales can lease their balances to you and even raise some bounties if you document the attack

yes, I can also try with a smaller nxt clone

First a clone and then nxt with a more strong network would be great, keep us informed of your intentions and ask for leasing in the nxt forum if you decide to try it

cynicSOB

member

Activity: 106

Merit: 10

yes, sometimes I'm a cynical SOB

Quote from: Come-from-Beyond on January 15, 2015, 06:08:45 PM

I don't open-source it yet. It works very unreliably with texts written by non-native speakers, because they tend to copy phrases of other people (it's caused by learning of new words).

I'm not an english native speaker, so if I get high correlation with one I'll take it as a compliment...

Quote from: _mr_e on January 15, 2015, 06:22:54 PM

So how about you hit BitcoinDark? Low market cap, center of SuperNet, can't think of a juicier target then that!

I'll take a look, but a market cap of 1M USD is not that low... at least for my budget

Quote from: lopalcar on January 15, 2015, 06:27:51 PM

In order to check if your attack approach works with nxt, wouldn't it work only with the effective balance? It's what is important to forge, in this this case, you wouldn't need any budget, sure some whales can lease their balances to you and even raise some bounties if you document the attack

yes, I can also try with a smaller nxt clone

Quote from: Crestington on January 15, 2015, 06:22:33 PM

I don't think being fully decentralized truly matters, having a centralized checkpointer can often be better since there are many people that work in a decentralized fashion but could be trusted enough to manage the checkpointing. IMO a centralized checkpointer is better than a decentralized currency with an open attack vector.

no way. I prefer old-fashioned POW over anything POS with a centralized checkpoint.

lopalcar

sr. member

Activity: 312

Merit: 254

Quote from: cynicSOB on December 18, 2014, 08:06:38 PM

Quote from: 00Smurf on December 18, 2014, 05:29:55 PM

POS 2.0 coins remove coinage from the equation, so now what?

POS 2.0? is that a thing?

Quote from: EvilDave on December 18, 2014, 07:10:27 PM

When you carry out your NXT attack, could you go to the trouble of documenting every step and the results ?
Even if you fail ( Wink

) there may be a small bounty for documenting the attack, and if you succeed, there'll be a bigger bounty.
Good luck, mate, give 'em Hell.

Sure, thanks. But attacking nxt requires funding that I don't have. I still claim that it can be attacked with less than 10%
NXT may not have age since last transaction, but it has "age" since last block. It accumulates equally to all miners ("forgers"?), but I believe it can be gamed to obtain more than the fair share of probabilities of creating a fork.

In order to check if your attack approach works with nxt, wouldn't it work only with the effective balance? It's what is important to forge, in this this case, you wouldn't need any budget, sure some whales can lease their balances to you and even raise some bounties if you document the attack

_mr_e

legendary

Activity: 817

Merit: 1000

So how about you hit BitcoinDark? Low market cap, center of SuperNet, can't think of a juicier target then that!

Crestington

legendary

Activity: 882

Merit: 1024

Quote from: cynicSOB on January 15, 2015, 05:58:33 PM

Quote from: Crestington on January 15, 2015, 05:56:28 PM

Interesting, wouldn't checkpoint servers and checkpointing every block combat this though?

yes, but it wouldn't be a decentralized currency! it would be a system controlled by a centralized checkpointer.
If you did decentralized checkpointing every block then the network would split and wouldn't work.

I don't think being fully decentralized truly matters, having a centralized checkpointer can often be better since there are many people that work in a decentralized fashion but could be trusted enough to manage the checkpointing. IMO a centralized checkpointer is better than a decentralized currency with an open attack vector.

Come-from-Beyond

legendary

Activity: 2142

Merit: 1009

Newbie

Quote from: djm34 on January 15, 2015, 06:05:42 PM

are you opensourcing your program...(or just care to share a few informations about) that sounds very interesting and clearly more than anything on that thread...

I don't open-source it yet. It works very unreliably with texts written by non-native speakers, because they tend to copy phrases of other people (it's caused by learning of new words).

djm34

legendary

Activity: 1400

Merit: 1050

Quote from: Come-from-Beyond on January 15, 2015, 06:00:03 PM

Quote from: cynicSOB on January 15, 2015, 05:55:21 PM

I wonder how I correlate to other users...

There are high correlations with some other users, but they can be sockpuppets of the guy. Ok, keep posting, I'll rerun the analysis in a month when get more your posts.

are you opensourcing your program...(or just care to share a few informations about) that sounds very interesting and clearly more than anything on that thread...

cynicSOB

member

Activity: 106

Merit: 10

yes, sometimes I'm a cynical SOB

Quote from: Daedelus on January 15, 2015, 05:34:20 PM

If you have got an attack that isn't listed here (or you think they are wrong)...

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.10152632

...then comment at the bottom of the thread.

I will comment there, but I think it falls under the "Short-range attack" category.

Come-from-Beyond

legendary

Activity: 2142

Merit: 1009

Newbie

Quote from: cynicSOB on January 15, 2015, 05:55:21 PM

I wonder how I correlate to other users...

There are high correlations with some other users, but they can be sockpuppets of the guy. Ok, keep posting, I'll rerun the analysis in a month when get more your posts.

cynicSOB

member

Activity: 106

Merit: 10

yes, sometimes I'm a cynical SOB

Quote from: cynicSOB on January 15, 2015, 05:55:21 PM

Quote from: Come-from-Beyond on January 15, 2015, 05:47:51 PM

Why do you copy speech style of FrictionlessCoin? I've ran a small program that showed high correlation with that guy.

really? I don't know who that is... I wonder how I correlate to other users...

anyway, please ignore the messenger and pay attention to the message!

cynicSOB

member

Activity: 106

Merit: 10

yes, sometimes I'm a cynical SOB

Quote from: Crestington on January 15, 2015, 05:56:28 PM

Interesting, wouldn't checkpoint servers and checkpointing every block combat this though?

yes, but it wouldn't be a decentralized currency! it would be a system controlled by a centralized checkpointer.
If you did decentralized checkpointing every block then the network would split and wouldn't work.

Crestington

legendary

Activity: 882

Merit: 1024

Interesting, wouldn't checkpoint servers and checkpointing every block combat this though? I like the research, should never give bad credit to finding exploits

cynicSOB

member

Activity: 106

Merit: 10

yes, sometimes I'm a cynical SOB

Quote from: Come-from-Beyond on January 15, 2015, 05:47:51 PM

Why do you copy speech style of FrictionlessCoin? I've ran a small program that showed high correlation with that guy.

really? I don't know who that is... I wonder how I correlate to other users...

Topic: Cleanup: I'll attack some coins - I owned APEXcoin for 90 blocks - page 12. (Read 17227 times)