Cleanup: I'll attack some coins - I owned APEXcoin for 90 blocks - page 13.

Come-from-Beyond

legendary

Activity: 2142

Merit: 1009

Newbie

Quote from: cynicSOB on December 18, 2014, 01:20:25 PM

lots of people complain about the quantity of coins and how the forum is flooded... some proposed ideas to clean it up....
I'll show you how it's done - I'll start attacking weak coins accelerating their death

just wait and see the results, I'll soon show the first victim. Let's start with PoS coins: some people think you need 51% of the supply but this is bs, you need only a very little % if you just want to do a single double spend.

the point of this thread is to see how people react to this: I won't steal from anyone, but some may lose "money".

Some questions:

1. is this a good idea?
2. would you donate so I can attack more POS coins? (maybe spare some coins you are bagholding)
3. would you pay to know the time of the attack and the victim in advance?
4. would you pay for "double spend as a service" (in this case you decide coin and the timing of the attack)?
5. is this legal?
6. do you think someone would pay to have me killed?

go!

update: apexcoin attack successful witih 0,07% of available supply

Why do you copy speech style of FrictionlessCoin? I've ran a small program that showed high correlation with that guy.

cynicSOB

member

Activity: 106

Merit: 10

yes, sometimes I'm a cynical SOB

I sent all the small batches of 10 APEX to a single address AHh8p4b9Pw9mBY2vNfgi6DE6FmBe4Jw3Pz to prove that they all belong to the same person. This is an address from cryptsy, and I'll try so spend those one more time.
They have a value of about 1USD and it's not like I'm stealing: I'm willing to give it back

Daedelus

hero member

Activity: 574

Merit: 500

If you have got an attack that isn't listed here (or you think they are wrong)...

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.10152632

...then comment at the bottom of the thread.

cynicSOB

member

Activity: 106

Merit: 10

yes, sometimes I'm a cynical SOB

bittrex disabled apex deposits and withdrawals as soon as the first reorg happened...

cynicSOB

member

Activity: 106

Merit: 10

yes, sometimes I'm a cynical SOB

It's true that the last checkpoint for APEX was months ago, but checkpoints wouldn't help against this because I'm rewinding only the few last blocks.

I know some Java, and I'd like to do Nxt eventually - it doesn't have coin age but it has something similar: the time since the last block makes your target easier as time goes by... I think this can be exploited in a similar way. Split, and then decide (brute force) which of your accounts will you use to mint in order to get more chances on the next block.

Daedelus

hero member

Activity: 574

Merit: 500

I think Peercoin has implemented checkpoints to guard against this. BCNext recognised the attack and that's why Nxt doesn't use coin age.

It is good you have proved him right (if you have, I didn't check

), I'm not sure that has been done before.

Do you know any Java?

cynicSOB

member

Activity: 106

Merit: 10

yes, sometimes I'm a cynical SOB

Quote from: Daedelus on January 15, 2015, 04:24:42 PM

Are you spreading your stake thinly across multiple accounts and waiting for the coin age to build?

yes
but just to be sure and to make it easier I overdid it. If an exchange waits for 6 confirmations, you would only need to split it in 6 (maybe 7, not 400 like I did).
I'm researching more advanced stuff like brute-forcing the stake modifier until I get 6 blocks in a row with a high probability of winning against the main chain with much less stake.

Quote from: Daedelus on January 15, 2015, 04:24:42 PM

Keep it up, research is good. A paper would be good, eventually.

thanks... with this technique alone, I could do Reddcoin (26 in coinmarketcap, which includes ripple and other stuff) for 12k USD or about 60BTC - less than 2% of market cap. Still too much for me...

the method is simple, and the only modification to the client was adding the ability to stake without publishing blocks (and then publish the private chain all at once), and to enable/disable listening of blocks and tx from other nodes. This allowed me to spend on one node while using the same coins for minting a parallel chain on another node.

Daedelus

hero member

Activity: 574

Merit: 500

Are you spreading your stake thinly across multiple accounts and waiting for the coin age to build?

10% is good? Ok

Keep it up, research is good. A paper would be good, eventually.

cynicSOB

member

Activity: 106

Merit: 10

yes, sometimes I'm a cynical SOB

Quote from: Daedelus on January 15, 2015, 04:09:46 PM

Nice. But what does it show on a dead coin? There will be a handful of nodes, no one staking... hardly representative. Top 20 coin next time?

according to this: https://chainz.cryptoid.info/apex/#!extraction 10% of supply was staking. Not that bad. Consider that it has a minimum stake of 1 day

PPC has a minimum of 30 days: this means most stakeholders cannot put their PPC holdings at stake even if they wanted to. The problem is PPC's market cap is almost 7M USD. The 3% or 4% I would need are still a lot of money....

And you don't need 90 blocks in a row as I did: you only need 3 blocks for a PPC double-spend on some exchanges.

I had a devastating 90 blocks with a ridiculous 0.07% of the supply.... and I didn't even try to "brute force" the stake modifier...

Daedelus

hero member

Activity: 574

Merit: 500

Nice. But what does it show on a dead coin? There will be a handful of nodes, no one staking... hardly representative. Top 20 coin next time?

cynicSOB

member

Activity: 106

Merit: 10

yes, sometimes I'm a cynical SOB

ok, the block explorer has now updated with all my blocks. Since block 339807 up to 339899 they are all mine.
You can see they all come from addresses with 10 APEX which all were split from one large address in this transaction: https://chainz.cryptoid.info/apex/tx.dws?506936.htm

oh, and I made a triple spend in the way.

cynicSOB

member

Activity: 106

Merit: 10

yes, sometimes I'm a cynical SOB

Quote from: Daedelus on January 15, 2015, 03:52:56 PM

Are you successfully gonna kill a dead coin? Cheesy

I didn't realize it was dead when I decided to do it

anyway, the point is that I only use 0,07% of the available supply...

Daedelus

hero member

Activity: 574

Merit: 500

Are you successfully gonna kill a dead coin? Cheesy

cynicSOB

member

Activity: 106

Merit: 10

yes, sometimes I'm a cynical SOB

in particular this transaction:

Code:

{
   "txid": "d9a106bdb543f1bff6003d821e0c86544bfdfc9418eb7089eec910a26d16d1a8",
   "version": 1,
   "time": 1421349204,
   "locktime": 0,
   "vin": [
      {
         "txid": "7a910fd43c3846132c887606bfd75de6c277ebcc8b84df510383db9928920554",
         "vout": 1,
         "scriptSig": {
            "asm": "30450221008c94c52deedb133514fdf8e6eb4a33a358f7906d0cbe8326d9134e3cee33800402204fd6d77e7b6f71841cd50879a2eaa578bada834178749c1d8c9d6f022be940b501 03e411d562181297871f310601dfeaf3f7d6c167afcf90db1ca1e0bfc0121de565",
            "hex": "4830450221008c94c52deedb133514fdf8e6eb4a33a358f7906d0cbe8326d9134e3cee33800402204fd6d77e7b6f71841cd50879a2eaa578bada834178749c1d8c9d6f022be940b5012103e411d562181297871f310601dfeaf3f7d6c167afcf90db1ca1e0bfc0121de565"
         },
         "sequence": 4294967295
      },
      {
         "txid": "7a910fd43c3846132c887606bfd75de6c277ebcc8b84df510383db9928920554",
         "vout": 2,
         "scriptSig": {
            "asm": "304402205fb7a381a80879f12441f385c64c05da2286df639d216991fcce26644d7fbaca02202ac1d6a793edf8cc3e489cfec696baed667338d28c0881a00a49be65590ae2fc01 02b6a378583cadf126df9f67e43782e07d3945bdbf3f9a3da38772b13c9626f8a3",
            "hex": "47304402205fb7a381a80879f12441f385c64c05da2286df639d216991fcce26644d7fbaca02202ac1d6a793edf8cc3e489cfec696baed667338d28c0881a00a49be65590ae2fc012102b6a378583cadf126df9f67e43782e07d3945bdbf3f9a3da38772b13c9626f8a3"
         },
         "sequence": 4294967295
      },
.....

with more than 30 confirms will be reversed

cynicSOB

member

Activity: 106

Merit: 10

yes, sometimes I'm a cynical SOB

look at the block explorer right now, it will look something like this:

339891   8 minutes   2   69.48547752 APEX   0.0007   Proof of Stake
339890   8 minutes   2   108.7155838 APEX   0.0007   Proof of Stake
339889   9 minutes   2   26.14316426 APEX   0.0006   Proof of Stake
339888   9 minutes   2   102.59570214 APEX   0.0007   Proof of Stake
339887   12 minutes   2   249.74588112 APEX   0.0007   Proof of Stake
339886   13 minutes   2   16.32830821 APEX   0.0006   Proof of Stake
339885   13 minutes   2   346.00373128 APEX   0.0007   Proof of Stake
339884   14 minutes   2   1,026.52179475 APEX   0.0006   Proof of Stake

now wait for my chain to propagate...

cynicSOB

member

Activity: 106

Merit: 10

yes, sometimes I'm a cynical SOB

it's been more than 2 weeks.... but it's happening now.

Take a look at APEX. Block explorer here: https://chainz.cryptoid.info/apex/
Yes, I know it's a small coin, but hey! it's part of the blocknet!

Oscilson

sr. member

Activity: 434

Merit: 250

Shall we wait for another two weeks?

Crestington

legendary

Activity: 882

Merit: 1024

C'mon now we haven't got all day, you've been yammering on about it for days now and no results.

Daedelus

hero member

Activity: 574

Merit: 500

I don't think anything will happen.

But, to be fair, you have to give some prior notice of the attack that is blockchain based (encrypted message in Nxt and then post the account password after the attack, for example). Otherwise, you could just wait for any $40000 coin to dip 50% as say "Ha! That was me. I told you guys I could do it!" Roll Eyes

junglemouse

newbie

Activity: 53

Merit: 0

Quote from: Febo on December 19, 2014, 08:02:01 AM

If you sink Bitcoin, you will hurt them all. So that is perfect choice.

Yeah, just sink Bitcoin

Grin

Topic: Cleanup: I'll attack some coins - I owned APEXcoin for 90 blocks - page 13. (Read 17227 times)