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Topic: Cleanup: I'll attack some coins - I owned APEXcoin for 90 blocks - page 13. (Read 17268 times)

legendary
Activity: 2142
Merit: 1010
Newbie
lots of people complain about the quantity of coins and how the forum is flooded... some proposed ideas to clean it up....
I'll show you how it's done - I'll start attacking weak coins accelerating their death

just wait and see the results, I'll soon show the first victim. Let's start with PoS coins: some people think you need 51% of the supply but this is bs, you need only a very little % if you just want to do a single double spend.

the point of this thread is to see how people react to this: I won't steal from anyone, but some may lose "money".

Some questions:

1. is this a good idea?
2. would you donate so I can attack more POS coins? (maybe spare some coins you are bagholding)
3. would you pay to know the time of the attack and the victim in advance?
4. would you pay for "double spend as a service" (in this case you decide coin and the timing of the attack)?
5. is this legal?
6. do you think someone would pay to have me killed?

go!

update: apexcoin attack successful witih 0,07% of available supply

Why do you copy speech style of FrictionlessCoin? I've ran a small program that showed high correlation with that guy.
member
Activity: 106
Merit: 10
yes, sometimes I'm a cynical SOB
I sent all the small batches of 10 APEX to a single address AHh8p4b9Pw9mBY2vNfgi6DE6FmBe4Jw3Pz to prove that they all belong to the same person. This is an address from cryptsy, and I'll try so spend those one more time.
They have a value of about 1USD and it's not like I'm stealing: I'm willing to give it back Smiley
hero member
Activity: 574
Merit: 500
If you have got an attack that isn't listed here (or you think they are wrong)...

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.10152632

...then comment at the bottom of the thread.
member
Activity: 106
Merit: 10
yes, sometimes I'm a cynical SOB
bittrex disabled apex deposits and withdrawals as soon as the first reorg happened...
member
Activity: 106
Merit: 10
yes, sometimes I'm a cynical SOB
It's true that the last checkpoint for APEX was months ago, but checkpoints wouldn't help against this because I'm rewinding only the few last blocks.

I know some Java, and I'd like to do Nxt eventually - it doesn't have coin age but it has something similar: the time since the last block makes your target easier as time goes by... I think this can be exploited in a similar way. Split, and then decide (brute force) which of your accounts will you use to mint in order to get more chances on the next block.

hero member
Activity: 574
Merit: 500
I think Peercoin has implemented checkpoints to guard against this. BCNext recognised the attack and that's why Nxt doesn't use coin age. 

It is good you have proved him right (if you have, I didn't check  Smiley ), I'm not sure that has been done before.

Do you know any Java?
member
Activity: 106
Merit: 10
yes, sometimes I'm a cynical SOB
Are you spreading your stake thinly across multiple accounts and waiting for the coin age to build?
yes
but just to be sure and to make it easier I overdid it. If an exchange waits for 6 confirmations, you would only need to split it in 6 (maybe 7, not 400 like I did).
I'm researching more advanced stuff like brute-forcing the stake modifier until I get 6 blocks in a row with a high probability of winning against the main chain with much less stake.

Keep it up, research is good. A paper would be good, eventually.

thanks... with this technique alone, I could do Reddcoin (26 in coinmarketcap, which includes ripple and other stuff) for 12k USD or about 60BTC - less than 2% of market cap. Still too much for me...

the method is simple, and the only modification to the client was adding the ability to stake without publishing blocks (and then publish the private chain all at once), and to enable/disable listening of blocks and tx from other nodes. This allowed me to spend on one node while using the same coins for minting a parallel chain on another node.
hero member
Activity: 574
Merit: 500
Are you spreading your stake thinly across multiple accounts and waiting for the coin age to build?

10% is good? Ok  Smiley

Keep it up, research is good. A paper would be good, eventually.
member
Activity: 106
Merit: 10
yes, sometimes I'm a cynical SOB
Nice. But what does it show on a dead coin? There will be a handful of nodes, no one staking... hardly representative. Top 20 coin next time?  Smiley

according to this: https://chainz.cryptoid.info/apex/#!extraction  10% of supply was staking. Not that bad. Consider that it has a minimum stake of 1 day

PPC has a minimum of 30 days: this means most stakeholders cannot put their PPC holdings at stake even if they wanted to. The problem is PPC's market cap is almost 7M USD. The 3% or 4% I would need are still a lot of money....

And you don't need 90 blocks in a row as I did: you only need 3 blocks for a PPC double-spend on some exchanges.

I had a devastating 90 blocks with a ridiculous 0.07% of the supply.... and I didn't even try to "brute force" the stake modifier...


hero member
Activity: 574
Merit: 500
Nice. But what does it show on a dead coin? There will be a handful of nodes, no one staking... hardly representative. Top 20 coin next time?  Smiley
member
Activity: 106
Merit: 10
yes, sometimes I'm a cynical SOB
ok, the block explorer has now updated with all my blocks. Since block 339807 up to 339899 they are all mine.
You can see they all come from addresses with 10 APEX which all were split from one large address in this transaction: https://chainz.cryptoid.info/apex/tx.dws?506936.htm

oh, and I made a triple spend in the way.
member
Activity: 106
Merit: 10
yes, sometimes I'm a cynical SOB
Are you successfully gonna kill a dead coin?  Cheesy

I didn't realize it was dead when I decided to do it Smiley
anyway, the point is that I only use 0,07% of the available supply...
hero member
Activity: 574
Merit: 500
Are you successfully gonna kill a dead coin?  Cheesy

member
Activity: 106
Merit: 10
yes, sometimes I'm a cynical SOB
in particular this transaction:

Code:
{
   "txid": "d9a106bdb543f1bff6003d821e0c86544bfdfc9418eb7089eec910a26d16d1a8",
   "version": 1,
   "time": 1421349204,
   "locktime": 0,
   "vin": [
      {
         "txid": "7a910fd43c3846132c887606bfd75de6c277ebcc8b84df510383db9928920554",
         "vout": 1,
         "scriptSig": {
            "asm": "30450221008c94c52deedb133514fdf8e6eb4a33a358f7906d0cbe8326d9134e3cee33800402204fd6d77e7b6f71841cd50879a2eaa578bada834178749c1d8c9d6f022be940b501 03e411d562181297871f310601dfeaf3f7d6c167afcf90db1ca1e0bfc0121de565",
            "hex": "4830450221008c94c52deedb133514fdf8e6eb4a33a358f7906d0cbe8326d9134e3cee33800402204fd6d77e7b6f71841cd50879a2eaa578bada834178749c1d8c9d6f022be940b5012103e411d562181297871f310601dfeaf3f7d6c167afcf90db1ca1e0bfc0121de565"
         },
         "sequence": 4294967295
      },
      {
         "txid": "7a910fd43c3846132c887606bfd75de6c277ebcc8b84df510383db9928920554",
         "vout": 2,
         "scriptSig": {
            "asm": "304402205fb7a381a80879f12441f385c64c05da2286df639d216991fcce26644d7fbaca02202ac1d6a793edf8cc3e489cfec696baed667338d28c0881a00a49be65590ae2fc01 02b6a378583cadf126df9f67e43782e07d3945bdbf3f9a3da38772b13c9626f8a3",
            "hex": "47304402205fb7a381a80879f12441f385c64c05da2286df639d216991fcce26644d7fbaca02202ac1d6a793edf8cc3e489cfec696baed667338d28c0881a00a49be65590ae2fc012102b6a378583cadf126df9f67e43782e07d3945bdbf3f9a3da38772b13c9626f8a3"
         },
         "sequence": 4294967295
      },
.....

with more than 30 confirms will be reversed
member
Activity: 106
Merit: 10
yes, sometimes I'm a cynical SOB
look at the block explorer right now, it will look something like this:

339891   8 minutes   2   69.48547752 APEX   0.0007   Proof of Stake
339890   8 minutes   2   108.7155838 APEX   0.0007   Proof of Stake
339889   9 minutes   2   26.14316426 APEX   0.0006   Proof of Stake
339888   9 minutes   2   102.59570214 APEX   0.0007   Proof of Stake
339887   12 minutes   2   249.74588112 APEX   0.0007   Proof of Stake
339886   13 minutes   2   16.32830821 APEX   0.0006   Proof of Stake
339885   13 minutes   2   346.00373128 APEX   0.0007   Proof of Stake
339884   14 minutes   2   1,026.52179475 APEX   0.0006   Proof of Stake

now wait for my chain to propagate...
member
Activity: 106
Merit: 10
yes, sometimes I'm a cynical SOB
it's been more than 2 weeks.... but it's happening now.

Take a look at APEX. Block explorer here: https://chainz.cryptoid.info/apex/
Yes, I know it's a small coin, but hey! it's part of the blocknet!
sr. member
Activity: 434
Merit: 250
Shall we wait for another two weeks?
legendary
Activity: 882
Merit: 1024
C'mon now we haven't got all day, you've been yammering on about it for days now and no results.


hero member
Activity: 574
Merit: 500
I don't think anything will happen.

But, to be fair, you have to give some prior notice of the attack that is blockchain based (encrypted message in Nxt and then post the account password after the attack,  for example). Otherwise, you could just wait for any $40000 coin to dip 50% as say "Ha! That was me. I told you guys I could do it!"  Roll Eyes


 Cheesy
newbie
Activity: 53
Merit: 0
If you sink Bitcoin, you will hurt them all. So that is perfect choice.

 Cheesy

Yeah, just sink Bitcoin

 Grin Grin Grin
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