Topic: Cointerra Mining ASIC coming soon - page 6. (Read 35548 times)

No, that's not what TSMC's page says:

http://www.tsmc.com/english/dedicatedFoundry/technology/20nm.htm

So no, it seem like it does ALL of these things - you have to pick one.  Of course, this could just be a badly written blurb, and perhaps you do get all these things.  If that's true, 20nm would be a possible foe for 28nm BTC ASICs.  Of course, pricing seems astronomical, so ROI would be a LOT slower.  That will change down the road, though.

Hello Maursader,
We apologize for the delay. PM'd you promptly after the post, not sure why you did not get the message. Sending you another message asap so that we can plan for your visit.

The CoinTerra Team

Didn't get that PM yet, see below:


Still waiting on that reply. I hope this doesn't signify the speed at which potential consumers will receive their ASIC machines. Seriously.

I hate to be grim but mining is dead for the average guy.  You will be much better off getting refunds and buying direct.  Then just sit and hold.  You will be much happier in 2-3 years than chasing the difficulty.  I thought the difficulty would run away from everyone starting Spring to Summer next year.  It has already started instead.

Sure! losing 10% to 20% a day since monday and more than 50% since it started, per each GH/s you own, is the right business model... to go bankrupt.

spiccioli

There is nothing you can do about it. This is what happens in a free market.

Us Miners HAVE to stick together because for the last 18 Months we've been getting SCREWED by many of these various ASIC companies.  Greed is out of control in Bitcoin atm and unless we want the rich and "well to do" taking over mining completely we need to watch out for each other and Support local and group projects and not allow our fellow miners to purchase equipment that'll never get a ROI let alone any type of profit.  I know i'd rather see Bitcoin prosper for the right reasons instead of just to line the pockets of VC's and their various "Companies"

I know things are always much more completed but seriously, most of us see our fellow miners getting shafted several times a days and we all need to start supporting one another instead of just thinking it's cool to troll the forums and get entertained by others suffering....

This is not Aimed at Cointerra in particular as they can atleast offer the lowest cost per GH but still looking to be a major ROI concern when the product is ever shipped later this Winter or early 2014.

Sorry for offtopic but we gotta do something

I get it.  If Frankie's dad had some APPL stock, i could buy shares in Apple from Frankie, amirite?
I'd like to announce a new Cointerra stock offering.
I own shares in Cointerra pass-through on Picostocks, and am too selling Cointerra shares.
PROFFIT.
What can possibly go wrong?

But this business model is dead now...

See my sig for the best business model right now

We will be communicating more information on the Picostocks listing. In short I can say that the Picostocks listing is not CoinTerra as a corporate entity selling shares but rather Picostocks as a company investing in CoinTerra and selling a form of pass-through ownership. We have a conversation open with Picostocks and will be making a clarifying statement regarding this.

Until they ship that is an open statement.   

As we all know from ASICminer, they sold their hardware as high as they could and only dropped price when conditions merited it (competition, diff increase)

KNC could slash their 1st gen prices right when Cointerra starts to look like they are shipping Dec/Jan (as they said they will look into doing things if competitors actually deliver) and also they have a 2nd Gen chip that may come out whenever too

Hashfast might be in the same driver seat if they deliver soon


I'll stick to my belief that Cointerra's real business model is to try to make a splash and get a greater fool to take over on the venture capital level.  They have raised the area for the bagholding. Instead of just the usual late pre-order customers getting the shaft, it will also be a late VC that wants to get into this 'bitcoin thing' that is left with a bigger bag

Look how bitfury is screwing some customers with how they are providing more to the mining pool as priority..if a VC buys Cointerra out, the pre-order customers can consider themselves screwed as the VC can see a fixed cost of developed hardware into short term mining gain.  Right now it is too muddy to think of it..  but not when it gets closer to an actual hashing machine to run through some cost/return numbers

thats ok to nitpick.  i really dont think its as clear cut as that.

if you are building a secret mine.. your boxes dont need to be user friendly.  they may not need their own controllers or power supplies cos you can build out shared facilities.  they might not even be air cooled.. as you can use facilities' water to cool them externally.

building a secret mine, you dont need a sales department nor a customer support department.  you need minimal skeleton staff to keep your mine running and you dont need any externally facing employees at all.

building a secret mine, you can overclock and overdrive your own hardware much harder than you would allow a customer to do it.. since if it blows up, its your own fault and you can take the risks you wouldnt let your customers take.   In fact, the hardware can be more bare bones... you may not even need a case for it.. you can simply slot bare boards in racks.

and ultimately, selling hardware requires you to have a markup to justify selling it.   whereas, if you are buying at cost price, you get to mine at a lower cost.

thus, i argue that operating a secret mine could well be more profitable and controllable, than taking pre-orders and selling boxes to customers.  It all depends on how easily you can sell and at what price you can sell to customers.   Since Cointerra is selling their TH's at a lower price than anyone else, i think its safe to say that they arent making the same profit per box that the other guys are selling, so you cant exactly accuse them of profiteering.. can you !?

(edit) Actually, to nitpick a bit further and take your words literally, you said Selling CHIPS was more profitable.. and i think thats the key.  Selling CHIPS is indeed much more profitable.  But most of the new guys dont sell chips... or, tried and didnt find traction.. maybe these new 28nm chips are too complex and require too sophisticated a board.. or maybe they need to try harder, as clearly, if they were to sell chips, they dont have the huge box costs associated with them and its a much better business to sell chips than to sell fully built working boxes.

Sorry for nitpicking, but selling chips is more profitable than mining.  AsicMiner is case in point, with business model involving sales of demonstrably unprofitable gear. 

DPos -

ive seen several bizplans from bitcoin asic mining companies while they were in their original finance raising mode... and several of them originally thought they would raise large amounts of private money to cover the cost of production ($6+m) and then build a private mine.   But almost none of them actually happened.

The only ones that seem to have done it are the publicly funded ones (eg: AsicMiner, or the newer ones like IceDrill and 100/200TH that did it using other people's hardware.)

The only one that I know of that actually raised a big phat chunk of private money and stayed 'secret' is the '21e6 llc'.

As for Cointerra.. they werent the only ones who originally thought it might be a good idea to design an asic and start their own mine... but they didnt do that.  That would be INSTEAD of selling to the pre-order market.

Asic companies have two ways of raising the finance they need to start production (NRE costs are millions).  1.  they can raise from private investors.. in which case they wont be selling their asics as its more profitable to mine with them.. or, 2.  they can offer them to pre-order customers who are willing to put cash down.   once the asic company has followed track 1 or track 2, their destiny is pretty much set and theyre unlikely and unable to switch.

If an asic company DIDNT raise pre-orders, and doesnt need them, you should assume they will (most likely) NOT be selling their hardware to the public and (most likely) WILL be mining with it themselves (in secret?)

Now instead of private secret mines, the trend is for asic companies to offer their hashing hardware either directly or indirectly via resellers into the hashcloud market, where their hashpower is hosted and re-packaged into smaller and more affordable chunks that are more easily sold and much more decentralised in ownership.  these are 'no fuss, no muss' hashing power... sold by people like cloudhashing.com, cex.io etc

I really wouldnt hold it against cointerra that they originally may have thought they would raise lots of private cash and have a private mine, and instead, changed track, and offered their hardware for pre-order sale to end users.   Its pretty much what most asic companies have done... since the main people willing to take a risk in investing in asic mining hardware, are existing miners and bitcoin enthusiasts who are familiar and comfortable with the risks and rewards of the bitcoin world.   Regular financial investors arent.

@cointerra, I have sent you a PM.

https://picostocks.com/businessplan/31

 

Thank you for your input, and to clarify:

We do not have any set plans on running an in-house mining operation.

Our priority is and have always been to deliver the fastest and most effective Bitcoin mining hardware to our customers. I absolutely understand the logic behind your argument as this has been a subject of contention in the ASIC industry ever since the beginning, even in regards to burn-in testing on the test-net or on the live Bitcoin network etc.

We believe that the best companies in the industry can do is be transparent to the customers and this is something we intend to be.

Make sense, i dont know the exact number but based on i've read the chip cost of say ...a GPU card, is quite low percentage wise of the whole cost of the card. So even if the chip cost is double, the cost of the card is only marginal higher.

I never said you will have mining operation b4 shipping. As long as you have plan for a mining operation during shipping or even afterward, you will be competing with your customer. So your estimated ROI for your customer is MOOT.

Its also a conflict of interest.

Either you're purely operating as a hardware vendor for general public or you're not....(cant be producing hardware for your own mining operation or any private mining). Its very tempting because you can:
1. Fund your mining operation thro sales from your customers (oversold your products)
2. Having private deal with mining corps (oversold again)

Your customer got shafted either way.