Topic: CrazyLoaf's CrazySteak(TM) High PoS Investment Journal - page 12. (Read 18513 times)

This is pretty cool. There aren't too many other passive investments out there that can operate like this and, at the same time, give you the potential for huge upswings in value.

Let's say you get $250 a month. What else can passively generate that? Assuming 3% annual dividends, you'd need almost a $100k stock portfolio to generate that. You could move a little more high risk and with higher costs and invest in a rental property. Okay you buy a $25k property (good luck finding one that isn't a dump and/or doesn't require a ton of work). Hell netting $250, by the rule of thumb of 50% of rent going to costs, would require a $500 a month rent, so let's just bump up the home price to $75k - $100k.

The fact of the matter is, for the lack of effort, you're not going to find something that can generate as much free-cash flow as these high PoS coins, and they have 24/7 hour markets to boot where you can unload them at almost no transaction costs.

You want to give me some of that profit so I can start my own journal haha xD

+1

I'd like to add that all my POS coins are generating about 0,3-0,4 BTC/month at actual prices . Well i invested some good amount of BTC in POS coins , but it's worth it in any case.

ORB is higher PoS than HBN definitely. It is fixed reward PoS, therefore APR depends on difficulty. It can be as high as 500% compound per annum, though it's likely to be between 200% and 300% in reality.

You say merchants don't matter. What do you see a primary purpose of a coin? P&D on exchanges? ORB/BTC holds a steady exchange rate of 5k sat. at Cryptsy for the past month. There were a few sporadic high volume fluctuations, but the market held. According to your theory, these 80+ merchants should drive the price down by dumping their sales. It doesn't happen.

CrazyLoaf, it has been explained before. Generate maybe 5 to 10 addresses for your staking needs. Use the Coin Control and 'Add recipient' button to split large inputs into these addresses.

ORB has an interesting distribution with the 1 ORB for every 20 ORB held, but I honestly was too stupid to be able to break my blocks up without having to wait a minute or so between each send to myself. I may take a look at it again, but I like my breaking and recombining to be easy.

ORB isn't high PoS.

Also I would like to point out, as CrazyLoaf has a few times, that merchants don't matter.  For example, although ORB has 80 merchants, and according to coinmarketcap has traded $110 USD worth in the last 24 hours. HBN has a smaller amount of merchants and has traded $229 in 24 hours. HYP has absolutely no merchants and has traded $2,900 in 24 hours.

Having merchants is just another way to dump your coins, they end up on the same exchanges, traded for the same BTC, but the only difference is that the user is charged a fee for someone else to do it for them.

But nevertheless, many crypto users find it very important that a coin has a few merchants that accept it. For me, I just use btc for those types of transactions.

HBN has less than 10 merchants. ORB has over than 80 merchants. Feel the difference.

I might be opening a position in a POS stake too.... Something like this is safer than buying into hashlets, as you own the coins. I'll let you guys know if I go through with this.

Yeah, my interest in high PoS was rekindled after looking at all the falling coins as of late. The crypto markets are maturing, and you can't just slap an animal on a coin and call it a day. A lot of high-priced coins have turned out to be falling knives, and barring speculation, there isn't much reason to hold onto them. That's why you see such painful swings.

Heck, I'm looking at the top volume coins on Bittrex today and Gnosis has 126 BTC volume and is showing a paper loss of MINUS 96.8% today! I don't know how accurate those numbers are, but I know we have definitely seen a rise in coins whose price dies a day or so after listing. Anyone remember Syscoin?

Actually, since you mentioned HBN, let's use that and TEK as an example of what high PoS can do for a falling portfolio. There were issues with the HBN wallet on Cryptsy, so who knows how likely this scenario is, but let's say you bought all your HBN at 40k sat May 16th. That's well above any historical high except for the very peak. Today, HBN, is roughly 6k sat. So right there, that is an 85% loss on paper, more if you look at the fact that BTC has fallen in value during that time.

We have had 4 months since that time. That's 12 staking periods. Compounded, that means every 1 HBN is now worth 1.27 HBN. So say we bought 1,000 HBN, we would now have 1,270 HBN. That makes our paper loss 58%, still a bad loss, but we still own the coin and can stake to positive returns. The compounded PoS on HBN can make up for a 50% loss in 1 year if the price merely steady after the 50% loss.

TEK is more interesting. Let's keep in mind the 40% PoS. The 85% loss can turn into profit in 6 months.

My expectations is that the NVCS will kick in in waves, yielding some stakes less than 500% and some at 500% depending on where in the cycle you stake.

Done. Yeah any sort of recommendations keep them coming. Right now, I'll just be focusing on these 4 coins, but may discuss some other ones as well. Aside from alliteration, these 4 (excluding HYP, but it's dev has been active in crypto for almost as long) are some of the oldest coins out there and represent a good range of quoted max PoS rates.

We have 100% - 750% represented. I've noticed that the 100% and below range is getting a little crowded, and there are probably another 10-20+ coins or so that provide stakes higher than the 25% needed to see the effects of compounding. I'm a little more skeptical of these, especially since some seem to have added high PoS after the fact.

Speaking of TEK, I noticed you posted in their thread that difficulty has fallen enough to where you can stake at 40% again. I wonder if the coin will be able to do this consistently going forward.

Very interesting, keep the posts coming, interesting read so far.

CrazyLoaf relayed his thanks to others in the POS arena.
I have to say that I was also lucky catching TG's investment journal which led me to HBN specifically.
Have a read through it from the start. It is well worth the time. Pity that the thread ended badly...

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/hbn-investment-journal-2-returns-every-ten-days-90000-hbn-porfolio-406112

PS: Thank Crazy for this thread. Very well written and well worth anyone's time to read.

Thanks for articulating the matter of staking coins. I'm fairly new to crypto, and after the dismal month of July scams, began to look for high-staking senior coins. It just makes sense, and like you said, are like owning stocks and bonds in one.

I will continue to read the posts here, some of most intelligent sharing on the forums 

Okay, so I've updated my addresses in an earlier post so I guess I'll have stalkers now who wonder why I do this and that at every step of the game.

Anyway, I thought of how to track this and, for the time being, I'll be reporting BTC in, and average cost. The nice thing about high PoS is that the coins can mint for you to (1) sell for income or (2) leave to compound and reduce average cost further.

The format is coin name : BTC in : coins owned : average cost

HYP : 1.6 : 347,329 : 0.00000461
TEK : 7.25 : 42,975 : 0.00016870
CAP : 4 : 139,102 : 0.00002876
HBN : 7.6 : 132,090 : 0.00005754

So as you can see here, I was pretty lucky as to when I started building my high PoS positions. While I did have some TEK and CAP before, I really doubled down once I saw some really cheap HYP and HBN, said wth, and went ahead and started the high PoS portfolio that I always dreamed of.

The only position that I'm really at a paper loss in atm is CAP. Like I said before, I was buying back when the BTC whale was eating up orders. At the time the market caps were roughly:

TEK: $350k
CAP: $200k
HBN: $450k

In most cases, I would hope for these and other high PoS coins to trend back up going forward. None of these stated market caps were at their peak positions, and the beauty of any of these is that the orders books are typically thin enough that, in the short term at least, a little volume eating into the sell side can rapidly move the price if the buy side builds support on the way up.

I know TEK has flirted with $700k in market cap. As far as I can tell, there has never been a coordinated pump on it. HBN had 2 pumps on it, one of which may have sent it close to $1M in market cap, but even before that it seemed to trend to around $500k. CAP is too recent to really discuss aside from the fact there was that whale wall.

I don't really buy into technical analysis all that much. Shoulders, flags, polka dots, I don't know. I just like how you can see panic in all the other coin threads, these high PoS coins are typically pretty quiet. I could go bust, but then again, I still think they have some sort of residual value as long as there is something like BTC.

That's coming

Thanks for writing this!

I do think you are missing an important central piece of info for this journal though: you should talk some of your numbers, namely how many coins you bought and then your ongoing stake returns.

Yeah, as stated in TG's investment journal, Tranz has a 2 YEAR plan for HBN. Isn't that like 50 years in crypto (I don't know what is the goofy conversion of the week for that)?

In regards to merchants, that's one thing these high PoS have on the vast majority of other altcoins. You surely can't speculate on something that's only claim to fame is that it can be used to buy things in the long-run. Why use Catcoin or Mooncoin or Leafcoin or whatever to buy something when BTC, or *gasp* credit cards will do just as well?

It doesn't matter if high PoS coins are picked up by merchants. They have at least some residual level of value due to the nature and power of their stake. I mean, taking things to a goofy level, if there was something that you could put 1 cookie in and get 1.4 cookies out (kinda like TEK) in 30 days, does that have a value on some level? Does it have more value if cookie can be replaced with simply any altcoin?

I almost feel the Wall Street types would have an easier time speculating on high PoS, somewhat goofy coin names notwithstanding. I'm sure they've seen things like the Auroracoin dump and want nothing to do with that, and that initial pump had something like merchant adoption as at least one component of the mania.

Come on now.... HBN's main advantage is Tranz, one of the few crazy smart devs that hasn't sold out to a P&D coin.

hBN has one advantage - many merchants