Topic: CrazyLoaf's CrazySteak(TM) High PoS Investment Journal - page 8. (Read 18509 times)

100% agree with you.

this effect you speak of is after the "ball is rolling" so to speak.

so for example lets, analyze two high stake systems -

1. 6 day PoW to issue, then moves to high stake PoS.

2. a PoW that starts and continues (Caps, HBN) Then High Stake PoS.

^^^

see the potential differences here?

One can sit at the top of the Market Cap (cough cough Blackcoin) and no one will use it, and or have much interesting it. (black is low stake otherwise it would not be there) (but you get the picture)

others are organic and drive from a "bootstrap" up system which is what Crypto is.

Some great points being made so far, any more updates on the journal so far crazyloaf? I was wondering you said you were buying more Bottlecap's and potentially others, what prices have you been buying in for? CAP market has been moving nicely lately providing more liquidity for buying and selling wasn't you was it .

Any thoughts on Diamond (DMD).  It has 50% interest and seems interesting in that it uses Grostl for POW.  I have watched it for months but never bought as there seems to be continual wallet issues and/or Cryptsy issues.  It looks to be having a fairly smooth upward price movement over the last month.  Not sure if I will buy any but I am thinking about putting a few older 69xx series cards towards mining it.

Thats funny, it took me about 2 minutes to add the RPC call that gives live stake rate information to TEKcoin. Wonder why they haven't put it in there yet, it only creates more confusion for the stake holders.

If anyone wants to know how to put it in, send me a pm and I can point you in the right direction.

Just got a PM from cycoinminer on some address staking info for HYP. Here it is:

I noticed earlier today that you'd asked the question about HYP wallets, that were unstaking - either lost from the days of TRK, corrupted, not backed up etc..... and as it happens, I made a spreadsheet of the top 50 wallets at the time (21st September), and have double checked them today to see that they're still dormant.

pQg5xVxVhrA1bHn7DTkHLZHwgoi31zbQ1b   320031.2813
pMqQmHxb9m2FJkF5Tt7zFhsBfj3Ep9CmpF   292846.0938
pPqL7tC3X8uSD1hJiZTynKHtRiWMTqpp4s   197878.5625
p9ZDWSKPZoaMpnCVhfHguaAXoZcMBivNy5   190040.0313
pAaYK2yWF4AiVupugZGrC9fQtcZ73vn1Bm   185100.0156
pKdMHLKSt1vFM8LchA2GJSSKKQuS3Kvi9e   139713.5313
pD6xijnd7mDGG5BNn1GnyQKwcaeRLFSvJg   108170.3906
pSR17prsZs3Hjos975Rw8FhcL2h8RrJnwf   80867.34375
p82QneNJebW9frANpEZceA64AbzHzRUVDF   80046.8125

Even though the bottom couple of wallets are outside the top 50 now, it gives you an idea that nearly 20% of the top 50 wallets were essentially out of the equation. The above HYP totals 1,594,694 HYP - at today's rate, that's 7.3% of HYP which is out of circulation.

Thanks cycoinminer

Good analysis! Have you checked out the rich lists of HYP, TEK, or HBN by chance?

I'm really liking CAP atm. Actually I like all the high PoS coins I've mentioned. I feel all of them are undervalued, but this is especially the case when you look at what is ahead of them on CMC. A lot of those coins are built on foundations of sand. I argue there is no reason to hold them beyond speculation. It's only a matter of time before some more serious people, even financial professionals who get into crypto as a mere hobby, jump into some of these solid coins.

It looks like TEK is getting ready to stake at around 20%-25%, as mentioned on their thread, for a lot of people. I said earlier that if TEK starts doing that, it makes CAP look a lot more attractive. Even though I have staked TEK at 40%, I am growing to prefer CAP. The reason for this is having TEK stake one day at 40%, one day at 20%, one day at 5%, etc. all in the same month is that it runs contrary to the purpose of NVCS, which is supposed to adjust the rate based on demand for stake. While crypto is fast-moving, I don't think the fundamental feature of value in a high PoS coin, the stake rate, should be subject to such wide swings over a period of one week vs the next one.

CAP had a hard fork in early July, and now 3 months later, it is paying 180%-190% vs 200% since that is what network demand says it should do. CAP is at $60k now. Recall what I said on developer costs. It's a steal on that alone, but you get whatever features are added to HBN as well.

On the other hand, TEK doesn't have a dedicated dev, a PoS rate that isn't 100% clear nor the RPC calls to see what rate is projected based on current stake difficulty. I can't even find a working online block explorer atm to check against before sending coins from my wallet.

TEK needs to fall in price on a per coin basis and/or other high PoS coins need to rise imo. Regardless, I still think high PoS as a group needs to go up in any event

^^^^ Good! I hope to buy the CAP you spread around  

I'm a big fan of CAP. Noticed that of the top 20 addresses 5 are not staking; accounting for approximately 10% of the supply of Bottlecaps. 

Address                     Balance

• Wallet #6
  F2Z6px7dPmkt7VdgLcA7UypYXaJXg2aRve   257994.875
• Wallet #9
  F4bq3JLMpfX3kwW6qTLxKQL3Kua2UZ1FEy   144830.453125
• Wallet #10
  Et48kpSrK9pJHpfstxhar4MgX2ZGGrRvv3   113049.34375
• Wallet #19
  EhVCWZepDRAFTX8V3SdUgNjweUUaGjL95J   56716.824219
• Wallet #20
  EvGd2iCR3SuBNDGrtoaabmZTkdFktccbTX   54249.183594

I agree that it's frustrating getting buys filled but I for one, will be sending 50% of stake back to the market. Spreading the Bottlecaps around, being the change I want to see in the world...blah, blah, blah.

Yes Tranz is honestly the best dev that I actually know.  Of course you could argue that SunnyKing is a better PoS dev, because of course he invented PoS, but seriously Tranz does amazing work. The devs at HYP, including me, are mostly there to learn and have fun.  Hopefully we will get to Tranz status some day, but by that time Tranz will be to SunnyKing/Satoshi status.

Yes, I have been buying HYP. I'm coming for your spot next

6 devs! So Tranz is one of those rare unicorn devs that have the programming power of 10, so that means at least 16 devs working on high PoS. And these aren't copy-paste kiddy coders either. I'm really impressed with the complexity of keeping high PoS coins running well in a world where other "devs" just ctrl+c, ctrl+v and don't know what they're doing.

So we're building a high PoS HQ near the BTC castle right? Where HYP, TEK, CAP, & HBN think tanks can operate? Throw in PHS too since it's an oldie but a goodie (another 1+ year old high-ish PoS coin)

This is where high PoS comes into play. Even in the case of HYP, where there isn't mining, it is clear that there is a good amount of coin churning and distribution. For the last few days that I've checked, Poloniex volume alone has been around 1% of total coins. The very nature of the coins, and the desire at times to sell some stake for reasons such as consumption and investment, makes it where distribution is much fairer than other coins.

Let's compare to the typical alt. There's a super short mining period. Insiders mine/buy most the coins and hold. The price pumps up. When it's at a sufficient level, there are waves of ragedumps where insiders and early buyers sell their entire coin stash. Then the winners move on to the next coin and do it again.

High PoS is different. While for trading reasons you may sell out your whole stash, in most cases, you sell over time, and perhaps never touching your principal level that you want to keep. DRK pumped over the idea of masternodes. In reality, high PoS did this earlier, at least from an investment perspective. You "lock" the coins, generate stake, and can profit from the stake. However, these nodes aren't mere mixers, but minting/mining masternodes that distribute new coins to the economy.

Agree that security of any coin is a concern.
ORB has hybrid PoW/PoS. Only 1/3 of the blocks are PoW (target 3 min block period) while 2/3 are PoS (target 1.5 min) for an overall 1 min block period. What I read is that a hybrid is safer than a pure PoS or PoW, so I am surprised that you position the PoS of a coin like HYP as more secure than for example ORB.
BTW, Peercoin was mentionedd before. ORB is based on Peercoin and released shortly after. As far as I know, ORB was the first hybrid
PoW/PoS that gave block rewards for both, just FYI.
I am not trying to force anyone onto ORB, just trying to set the record straight as ORB promotion has been severely lacking and as a
result almost nobody knows about or understands this coin, except a small circle. And since most of them hang out on CCT, the
BCT thread for ORB is almost deserted and it may seem the coin has little interest, but I can tell from seeing what is being discussed
(I am not related to ORB or its devs, just holder and an involved user / small investor) that there is plenty activity.
Good to see that HYP also has an active team and is sharing resources with other coins. That is the best way to spread quality.
Maybe time to buy some more - my low buy offer has still not hit yet even though the price has come down from my buying spree ;-)

+1

the only viable PoS system are one in which the users know there was at least a significant chance of PoW spread

HBN and Caps where both out in a time where Scrypt PoW was not a total monopoly and also it mostly ignored these systems.

these and other crypto are listed in my group under "accidents"  and can be viable, as long as other fundamental characteristics fall in place.

I can completely understand this view, and its one of the reasons that CrazyLoaf wasn't wild about Orb.

But one other thing to keep in mind is security of the chain. For these coins you need to sustain a high PoW hash rate to be only moderately safe from attack. Remember the whole episode at Mintcoin that pushed them to eliminate PoW altogether?  So I am completely happy having HYP PoS only, and would have it no other way. Not only is it safer, but it also gets rid of the ability to mine and instadump.  For HYP, you need to either buy and dump, or buy-stake-dump. I like that model quite a lot, it seems to have good traction in the market so far on the supply side.

Concerning the short PoW period. Yes there were some lucky people that mined and now are what I call "legacies", or those leftover from truckcoin (the coin that HYP forked off of).  Unfortunately for me, and most of the people high up on the rich list, we had to buy our way into HYP because the mining period had already ended.

CrazyLoaf good posts!  And yes I have seen you creeping up the rich list, you are either staking like a mad man or buying decent blocks. Hell, you have a higher balance than david latapie now  

PS: one other point that is not really discussed as much here, or really anywhere. HYP has about 6 devs working on it at the moment, including me, not to mention the friendly exchange of new code between HBN and HYP, I think this will really help the HYP infrastructure over the long term, but probably doesn't impact pricing much.

Thanks It's nice I can actually give some hard numbers in these. Since these high PoS embrace the whole "math is money" angle that makes Bitcoin so cool, it lends itself to at least some numeric analysis.

On the other hand, the usual way of valuing alts is like this:

Well CrapCoin pumped to X and is now on like number 500 on coinmarketcap. BullshitCoin seems similar, so maybe it can pump to X +- 25% and then die off too. Let me pump and dump before everyone else does Whoops, I mean, let me post everywhere on BTC Talk in other coin's threads about this "great investment opportunity" I found in BullshitCoin. Yeah, that's it

Nice to see the TokyoGhetto torch passes to such a quality thread.

It's just great the way you are giving HARD NUMBERS for these quality investment coins...
Because they can take a few months to understand and trade/stake effectively.

 

In regards to Cor2, the issue I had with breaking blocks is that it continually gave errors if you tried to rapidly break down an ORB block. I quickly lost interest as a result. The rest still stands in regards to my opinion on ORB. It's different, but I think its stake parameters being fixed is not attractive since there isn't a trigger for market "demand" to change it as in NVCS based systems.


2 good points. CAP is indeed a good name. Actually, HYP, CAP, and HBN all have "fun" names that make them interesting to at least look at. TEK's is a little more generic, but at the same, it doesn't detract from the coin and there are some interesting ways branding and the like could go. While I don't think looking at use as a currency is important, I would actually be more apt to use something like "HoboNickels" versus "BlackCoin" in real life. I think the branding on a lot of these coins competing to be a defacto currency is a little weesh to be honest. Whatever you do, DON'T look at the BlackCoin music video. It's pretty lame.

CAP is especially undervalued now since, according to a recent Tranz post, so many people are staking that the rate is falling slightly to 170%-180%. That's awesome

Token mining period/PoS only coins are commonly attributed with pump and dump coins, i.e., almost every alt being released saying they're going to be the next BTC. HYP is a little different in that they forked off of TRK, so it's actually the first fork launch that I'm aware of off. As a result, a good 5M-10M of the coins are "dead" in that they aren't active on the HYP chain (exchange wallets, etc. from TRK).

I'm a little torn on PoS. On the one hand it makes a lot of sense for new coins since a pure PoW coin can easily be attacked since hash is so low. A blended system is intriguing since it allows people to generate the blockchain/protect the system in a variety of ways. I think PoS pioneer Peercoin still has PoW, so that could be a vote of confidence

Also, looking forward in a sort of tinfoil hat sort of way, what will happen to pure PoS when/if quantum computing arrives? It seems to me that a PoW system of quantum miners could better defend against attacks on the blockchain.

CAP and HBN are Scrypt mineable and TEK is SHA-256. A lot of early miners don't have machines to compete with those of today, but maybe they still enjoy the mining process, but not necessarily the check out every new shitcoin, make sure you don't get a zero day exploit, dump before everyone else, etc. process. If they've already ROI'ed on their machines, why not relax and point them to these oldie high PoS coins and hold the earnings? Seems like a win-win to me

https://github.com/presstab/HyperStake/releases/tag/v1.0.6

Here you go. The new theme is sleek and stylish