Topic: CrazyLoaf's CrazySteak(TM) High PoS Investment Journal - page 9. (Read 18513 times)

Whats the new wallet for HYP? I'm on version 1.0.5, is there a new one? If so, link please?

CrazyLoaf's CrazySteak(TM) 9/25/14 Update

You may notice some changes on the chart below. Going to change by strategy/style a little, but chart first:

STAKE      NAME      BTC       COINS       AVG COST      CURRENT      VALUE      30-STAKE      ROI      PLACE
750%      HYP      7.00       599,560       0.00001168      0.00002749      16.48      10.14      135%      2
500%      TEK      7.70       45,657       0.00016865      0.00030022      13.71      4.11      78%      ?
200%      CAP      5.00       189,311       0.00002641      0.00002165      4.10      0.67      -18%      7
100%      HBN      8.85       150,818       0.00005868      0.00007983      12.04      0.72      36%      6

Current BTC invested is 28.55; Estimated Value is 46.33 based on last trade price; ROI is a blended 62% atm.

Now, I've gotten rid of a few columns to simply things since I'm not going to upload pics and all this when it looks pretty decent as is now. Also, I gave up on doing Stake4Charity, Stake4Steak, Autosavings, what have you. While I don't plan on hoarding my coins forever, the record keeping would be awful since I'd have to keep track of all these little sub 0.01 BTC movements. It just seemed like too much work, and the purpose of this is for fun

Now onto some coin by coin comments:

I don't know what happened with me on this one, but I was compelled to invest a LOT more than I had before. There's just something about that rich list that is addictive Also, I see HYP having a really active community going on, and it seems like it has some fresh high PoS coin buyers. It's still thinly traded as can be and less than 0.75% of all coins was for sale earlier today. However, it also is getting good volume. I was considering buying more TEK, but went with HYP.

I've pushed up my average buy price quite a bit from when I only had 1.6 BTC in the coin. I am still feeling really optimistic about this coin. New wallet is sexy as all hell. There's almost close to a constant 100 people in IRC. The marketing side of this coin is really cool and I think the IRC could eventually be a good hangout for all high PoS coins.

Bought a little bit more of this. There was a wall or two I was going to eat, but I bought HYP instead. I'm still liking TEK, especially with this recent run up to 30k sat! (P.S. Where'd that come from?). Another hard fork may be on the horizon. Hopefully some of the more recent features in high PoS coins can be ported over.

The last stake I had was 40%+, but currently the difficulty looks like it'll be doing around 20%. I still like TEK at 20%. Heck, Novacoin only pays like 3% and you have to wait 30 days for it AND there's a max reward of 10 per block. I think moving to a max block reward for TEK wouldn't be bad and would help spread out blocks automatically and keep wallets open versus opening once a month or so. I'm still liking TEK

I've talked myself into wanting more CAP. As I mentioned in an earlier post, there's like 33% of the coins held in the higher rich list addresses. I recall the buy wall and I think someone has a plan for this coin. Even if it's just a high PoS beastie, it's close to a TEK-lite to me with it's almost 20% stake and long-ish waiting period, but it also comes with one of the best devs in the business for free

I've also noticed it's very hard to buy coins for CAP. I've setup buy walls and I have some trickled to me, but I've almost always preferred to just eat some sell walls to get them into my wallet to start staking. At TEK's current 30k sat value, CAP is supremely cheap in comparison imo. It only has roughly 200% more coins, but the emission schedule going forward seems like it will be more conservative.

I've bought some more HBN since that darn rich list enticed me once again. Also, I remember seeing the order book close to 9k and wanted to help it along. I'll probably keep my eye on HBN and CAP and buy some more since I've had my fill on HYP atm. However, if TEK has a good stake sell-off, I may have to just buy more of it and CAP.

There's a new wallet in development and a hard fork upcoming for HBN. I'm really excited for these. One feature is a max block reward. I recall someone saying that some of the large wallets aren't staking. As a result, it doesn't make sense for them to just hop online a month or so later and hoard all the stakes. The final note I can think of is I could never get my address to confirm with the block explorer. I've tried signing it a few times in different ways, but it doesn't work.

Some Notes

Since I don't plan on selling stakes daily, I may also spread out my entries a little longer. These are quiet coins with serious people in them, so there isn't too much news at times. I saw some good comments earlier that I'll mention later. Also, I may go back and do some edits to earlier posts to make their formats a little cleaner

I think if you think about adoption by people outside the high stake fanclub Bottlecaps / CAPs has the most commercially marketable name and branding potential of the pack.  For that reason + Tranz at the reigns, I also agree it is currently significantly undervalued at ~0.0002.

Also as an aside I don't like the token mining period / POS only type coins like Hyperstake as someone has to have been aware at the right moment to have full advantage, so it is too easy for a handful of people to benefit by order of magnitudes above the subsequent waves.  I think the POW/POS format and slower distribution of HBN, CAPs and TEK to be more equitable across a wider time frame.

You are entitled to your opinion of course.
The fact that a coin is not very well known, does not mean that it has no potential.
As you are well aware, market cap is entire based on price. If price doubles (and it has been over 9k sat more than once)
the market cap suddenly is double, so then it is almost twice CAP...
The block thing is the same between different coins, so I do not understand why you should need to wait for one and not for the other,
in essence all should have a confirmation before splitting blocks up further, but that would make only a few minutes difference on something that needs to be done only once. Not a big deal to me, maybe it is to you. Does not seem a good reason to reject a coin that has been staking reliably without issues for over half a year and is more than a year old with solid support.
The exchanges have been slow in recent weeks, that is why you see low volume: everyone is keeping ORB in their wallet for staking.
The staking bonanza that you dislike was to fulfill an old promise from the original developer of ORB, so there was a reason to do this
"give-away" for a limited time with full support from the community. After that, the coin returned to the specified parameters.
Whether you like it or not - I think ORB has value and that is why I brought it up here to discuss its merits.
Thanks for giving your opinion.

I did diversify and buy into HYP just for the heck of it and have needed to split those into blocks also.
We'll see if that will bring the higher rewards - all depending on how well the value stays up as well as diff increase...

No doubt! Just compare the order books on any high PoS coin and a random coin and you can see the difference. Former darling MINT (which had 20% stake for the first year, but that's still not juicy enough) has the sell side clogged with orders.

HYP is super hard to buy, but you may be able to catch some sell offs with a buy wall. There's not even a full 1% up for sale at Poloniex: 0.75% of the market only Only about 1% of the coin has traded today.

CAP is very interesting. I originally got into it just because of Tranz, but the more I look at it, the cheaper it seems. Due to competing for stake, some people are getting reports of TEK paying 20% or less. CAP pays almost just as much as this, and has a good range of 15 days to 45 days for stake maturation.

Battlecoin (BCX) is trading at a higher market cap than CAP, and it's a dead coin with a poorly featured wallet, low stake, and a large number of coins outstanding!

Also, check out the rich list. The top 6 addresses hold 2M+, or roughly 33% of the coins outstanding. Could this have been the huge buy wall from before? I recall someone mentioning that it was trying to guzzle up 1/3 of the coins.

Finally, the stake is at an interesting rate and and the wait period is pretty anti-trader. It's almost a TEK lite Just looking at the # of coins and knowing that it has a more conservative emissions schedule than TEK could have at 40% stake and a similar or lower one at 20% and below, the price has only one way to go: UP! There are 2.3M TEKs and 6.2M CAPs, or 1.70x more CAPs.

Let's look at the market cap of TEK and try to back CAP into that. Let's just say TEK is at $200k market cap, or about 500 BTC. That's 21,739 sat. CAP would need to be 8,065 sat to meet that. Just ignoring market cap and taking the 1.70x multiple, CAPs are 12,787 sat. And all of these are super conservative. It's not like you can just go out and buy large chunks of these coins without moving that market.

I'm in the process of accumulating some Cap and also HYP. Not an easy task! Very little for sale, and a sizable gap between bid and ask.

Okay, some comments on both ORB and SUPER since people seem to keep bringing them up.

I don't like ORB for a few reasons:

- Market cap is too low. It's $50k. CAP is $55k. From a risk/reward perspective, CAP is the better pick.
- Volume feels lower. Every time I've checked it on Cryptsy, it seems to be below 0.1 BTC. I know it trades elsewhere, but according to CMC, it had $39 volume on Cryptsy and $0 on AllCoin. I've seen all the coins I mention in my portfolio having well over 1 BTC in volume some days.
- The block thing IS annoying. Say I want to buy 2.5% of ORB. That's roughly 40k - 50k ORB. I've tried to break blocks on a mere 4k and I had like a 30 second delay between sending the block to myself where I couldn't break it again. I've never had that in any other high PoS coin. I can break huge HYP, TEK, CAP, and HBN blocks in 5 mins or less.
- There was a staking bonanza where people got extra coins just because. I don't really like coins that have time-based stake changes (1 year x%, 2 year y%, etc.), nor do I like where coins randomly change stake based on the block. Staking should be constrained by the parameters and then demand decides what the rate is.
- The high PoS community doesn't mention ORB. If those investors don't want the coin, who will buy it?

The SUPER community seems "coin flavor of the month." They've dumped the coin to all hell over dumb crap like PoD. Price is in freefall. At the moment, the market cap is below completely dead Battlecoin, so maybe it's worth a play. But again, I would prefer a lot of other coins before SUPER if I wasn't speculating. 

About ORB: I have it for over half a year and am very happy with its rewards and retaining value since more than a year.
I saw your interest in ORBitcoin and your hesitation because it needs to be broken in small clumps (minimum 20 ORB) for best staking.
Please note that the ORB wallet takes care of maintaining block size between 25 and 50 after staking, because once it reaches 50 from
the interest (1 ORB) it will be broken into two inputs of half the size.

Say you want to do minimal work and feed blocks of size 49 to the wallet, so at the first time staking they will be 50 in size and break into two 25 size blocks and you create 5 addresses in your ORB wallet plus you enable "Custom change address" to be one of the existing
addresses in your wallet, to avoid that the wallet starts creating new temporary addresses, then every input can be broken into 6 chunks
in one step. To end up with 50 ORB chunks, you start with a 300 ORB chunk and that means that an 1800 chunk of ORB can be broken down in two steps, the second step needs to be executed 6 times for each of the 300 ORB chunks.
This process only needs to be done once and the wallet will maintain the input chunk size within limits (25-50 ORB). I did this after buying a significant amount (over 5k ORB) once and this was done pretty fast (less than half hour with learning curve).
For a while I religiously split blocks after staking to maintain them at 20 ORB exactly but now I let them grow and only occasionally check if I want to split the larger blocks that have recently staked (so their age is young and I do not impact the time to the next staking)

Letting the wallet rezise the blocks does not give the optimal 20 ORB for highest interest, but the larger blocks will stake faster so the effect on interest may be minimal.
Example when the block size is average 30 ORB and staking is only every 12 days (which is the current situation with the high 0.033 diff) then the interest from the 30 times staking per year leads to over 100% return on your wallet balance. (100% without compounded interest)

I have 12k ORB in my wallet and received over 40 ORB in the last 24h from PoS blocks.
This is perfectly in line with the over-100% growth per year.

Here they are:

HYP (750%): min 9, max 30 : min 1 > 973.9 : max 1 > 345.27
TEK (500%): 30 min, max 90 : min 1 > 60.13
CAP (200%): 15 min, max 45 : min 1 > 6.83 : max 1 > 5.98
HBN (100%): 10 min, max ? : min 1 > 2.06

I went ahead and gave you the compounded as well. It's what each unit of currency turns into on compounding, roughly. Note that none of these take into account the max block rewards and daily block limit. For example, HYP will probably not compound close to x1000. If the HYP thing has anything to share on growth/inflation, they're welcome to. I think they had a numbers guy looking at it

Can you give a little more detail on HBN and CAP, specifically
what is their maturity time for each coin?

I imagine the %interest is based purely on the %/365
So ...
HYP is 750/365 = 2.05% daily
TEK is 500/365 = 1.37% daily

So is CAP 200/365
and HBN 100/365

Knowing the maturity time, gives me the interval to figure out the compounding

I guess I'm gonna make a Crazy Loaf.  I've had some CAPs sitting around a while, I mined them after the big run thinking the prices would return.  Might as well stake em now - while I'm at I should probably through in some HBN and make a loaf of it.  (I've already got TEK and HYP)

Agree...

There is a decent quantity (10,000) offered at around .00008 right now. It is a good opportunity for entry.

The coins are generally priced according to risk.. and Super is fair value, being much cheaper than the others. I always like to trade binary outcomes, because the rewards are much greater for success : there is a way of managing the failures to get a little capital back.

Thanks for the update. I would say to anyone who is new to high PoS or doesn't have the funds to risk to not make SUPER their coin of choice. To get the 100k for Proof of Rich, which is not yet confirmed, will cost almost 1+ BTC, depending on what prices you can pick them up for. I'd say build a portfolio of the 4 coins mentioned in the thread, or, if you REALLY want to go all in on one, pick Hyperstake (HYP).

Stake alone won't carry a coin, and the 100% level is pretty crowded atm. I've already lost a good amount (0.5+ BTC) on SUPER myself to pick up like 20k or so

Guys, I will mention Super one more time, its lowest price ever and worth some gambling money you can aford to lose if it goes bad.
It wouldnt cost much to pick up enough for their POR, if the coin turns out good, it will bring a substansial return on investment...
I took the gamble myself.

Happy staking

That's what attracted me to these high PoS coins in the recent alt depression (which we may still be in). I started buying HBN in the 4k's, knowing the dev and coin were solid, and it had hit higher price levels before. I didn't feel it could go that much lower, but if it did, the stake could make up for the loss. This is even more true in coins like HYP and TEK with such large rates. The phrase that comes to mind is "Heads I win, tails I don't lose too much."

Just as an update, and I feel like a doofus after requesting the feature in coins like TEK, but there's no way I can keep track of a 25% autosell sort of thing on a daily basis. I still plan on selling some and not hoarding, but I'm just in too many alts to not get the BTC numbers tainted. I still think it's a great feature, but I'm a little too crazy to manage it

Looks like HBN  is on the upswing  

I think the floor of hbn was .00005, but will rise steadily until a new floor of .00009 or o.0001. That's another great thing I like about pos coins...there is big incentive to buy at the floor because its a fairly save investment, wheresas pow clins , if they hit a floor and you can't stake, there is much less chance they will have a resurgence. (I.e greater incentive to buy cheap pos coins than cheap pow coins, because the pos ability encourages more purchases just for the pos ability alone, which means less likely to ever fall to a new floor.)

To the hbn crowd: if you have big holdings I recommend putting a few k on cryptsy at around these levels, as just stimulates the market overall. It can be discouraging for potential buyers that want to get hbn but seeing nothing much available at around market price. (0.0000+/-2)

I think HYP has done a lot right in terms of high PoS:

- Community: IRC has almost 100 people in it at times.
- Features: GUI HyperSend (automatically send % of stakes), themes, other stuff on the way
- Monero Connection: XMR trading pair and David Latapie on the team of both HYP and XMR
- Stake %: High, but at the same time having someone technical to monitor it constantly (Presstab)

I think if HYP keeps up (pun intended), it has a good chance of sustaining itself above $1M market cap, especially if BTC finds a higher floor. The only high-ish PoS coin above it I can think of is Novacoin (NVC), but it seems pretty dead outside of Russia, and it only pays 3% every 30 days I believe. If HYP could get some Asian exposure (where they really like PoS - some coins are kept alive just by Asian interest), I think it could do really well.

I would also add, technology matters.

HYP and Presstab are considering optimization techniques for blocks to automatically resize and recombine based on staking habits. That's a good angle that can only help one's PoS efficiency. I'm not one to break and recombine blocks to test. About the only times I've broken blocks are at the start to avoid max PoS caps and I'll do it when I start getting dust blocks.

I'd also Stake4Charity (HBN), HyperSend (HYP), Autosavings (CAP) is pretty big at this point for ease of use. I don't want to have to check and send a portion of my stake over manually to sell on exchanges, but I will just pop in an address and let it go and check the exchanges every day or so. It helps if there is a GUI implementation too, since the fewer RPC things, the better, since it can open the coins to wider use by non semi-technicals. You'd be surprised how uncomfortable people are doing seemingly simple things with a guide on a computer.

I'd really like TEK to add something like the above Stake4Charity since I could see myself using that, but not fooling with sending over manually. The nice thing about this is that you don't "feel" like you're losing coin age since the coins are sent just as their being created.

When picking these coins, I started with looking at high PoS and also, truth be told, alliteration in the name However, what ended up happening is I ended up seeing a value in these particular coins. What does a high PoS coin need:

- Decent market cap: Excluding CAP, all of these coins are in the top 100 on Coin Market Cap.
- Decent volume: HYP has the best of this atm, but both CAP and TEK have shown to have good volume when needed, that is, when there are good sell or buy orders and people are looking to move stake.
- Coin age: HBN and TEK are 1+ year old with pretty consistent developers; CAP is old too, but was taken over by a coin dev that has shown to be willing to help a lot of coins (Tranz) and also sort of stick with just working on right now 2 coins (CAP and HBN) versus jumping from PnD to PnD coin. HYP has Presstab, who has sort of done the same in terms of helping coins and now has one under his name as the main dev.
- Coin community: In reference to SUPER, I did plan on picking up 100k SUPER for their PoR, but it looks like some seemingly dumb things (PoD) have caused the coin price to collapse. I paid 0.66 BTC for 22k SUPER which is now worth 0.18 BTC or so. I think SUPER's anon features got people not interested in high PoS in the coin, but rather short term gains. There's also the fact that 100% PoS isn't that apt to absorb price crashes as easily. HBN gets a pass on this since it is an old guard coin, but the fact is that now there are a lot of coins around the 100% PoS level. I've considered getting positions in some, but it will moreso be for pure staking versus what I'm doing with my journal coins.

Really, the more I look at it, the more I like these journal coins versus others. Above the 200% stake level, I think I've covered everything. At 100% and below, yes there are coins that pay the same, but they seem to be more quiet (and high PoS is pretty quiet to begin with).

In making a similar journal, where should majority of funds go into?