crypto-games.net, 30% house edge, bugs and vulnerabilities, screw the investors! - page 15.

subSTRATA

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Quote from: treweret on July 03, 2015, 07:05:51 AM

Quote from: subSTRATA on July 03, 2015, 06:52:08 AM

Quote from: xetsr on July 03, 2015, 06:50:50 AM

Quote from: subSTRATA on July 03, 2015, 06:49:17 AM

the admin of the site seems rather hostile and is trying to rip both me and dooglus off, demanding a lower bounty for the deal, i am entertaining offers in this thread or through pm regarding this. a percentage of this will be paid to dooglus for his help in confirming this issue.

kind of like blackmail? they don't pay up so you sell the exploit?

"heres my price take it or leave it lolol fk off" is basically the tone im getting from this guy. he seems rather hostile, which is dissuading me from helping his site out, which i believe the price I asked for for two very serious bugs was completely reasonable.

how large is this site? How much is the max win?

im not heartless; im not going to give any details as to what the site is.

subSTRATA

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Quote from: waterpile on July 03, 2015, 07:07:26 AM

What if they found about it and got fixed it ASAP then the method will become pointless/useless this may cause a problem in your part Subtrata.

thats true, but judging from his hostility the admin is hes scrambling to find it and panicking. ive already offered just 1 BTC to give the details of the bug allowing for +EV bets, and another .5 BTC for a more serious bug found by dooglus. the implications of the second bug will not be disclosed for obvious reasons, but given the severity of these bugs, id think the price offered was completely reasonable. im fine with accepting the offer given, but that's not up to me; dooglus holds the details regarding the second bug ad i believe he has gone to sleep for the time being. until then, this is up for grabs. if dooglus is fine with accepting the proposed deal, so am i, but after this, i really have a negative impression of the site's admin in regards to professionalism and trust.
until dooglus gives me word that he is fine with this, its up for discussion, but either way, i will be giving dooglus a percentage share of the bounty for his immense help with this issue.

waterpile

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What if they found about it and got fixed it ASAP then the method will become pointless/useless this may cause a problem in your part Subtrata.

treweret

newbie

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Quote from: subSTRATA on July 03, 2015, 06:52:08 AM

Quote from: xetsr on July 03, 2015, 06:50:50 AM

Quote from: subSTRATA on July 03, 2015, 06:49:17 AM

the admin of the site seems rather hostile and is trying to rip both me and dooglus off, demanding a lower bounty for the deal, i am entertaining offers in this thread or through pm regarding this. a percentage of this will be paid to dooglus for his help in confirming this issue.

kind of like blackmail? they don't pay up so you sell the exploit?

"heres my price take it or leave it lolol fk off" is basically the tone im getting from this guy. he seems rather hostile, which is dissuading me from helping his site out, which i believe the price I asked for for two very serious bugs was completely reasonable.

how large is this site? How much is the max win?

subSTRATA

legendary

Activity: 1288

Merit: 1043

:^)

Quote from: xetsr on July 03, 2015, 06:50:50 AM

Quote from: subSTRATA on July 03, 2015, 06:49:17 AM

the admin of the site seems rather hostile and is trying to rip both me and dooglus off, demanding a lower bounty for the deal, i am entertaining offers in this thread or through pm regarding this. a percentage of this will be paid to dooglus for his help in confirming this issue.

kind of like blackmail? they don't pay up so you sell the exploit?

"heres my price take it or leave it lolol fk off" is basically the tone im getting from this guy. he seems rather hostile, which is dissuading me from helping his site out, which i believe the price I asked for for two very serious bugs was completely reasonable.

xetsr

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Activity: 1120

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Quote from: subSTRATA on July 03, 2015, 06:49:17 AM

the admin of the site seems rather hostile and is trying to rip both me and dooglus off, demanding a lower bounty for the deal, i am entertaining offers in this thread or through pm regarding this. a percentage of this will be paid to dooglus for his help in confirming this issue.

kind of like blackmail? they don't pay up so you sell the exploit?

subSTRATA

legendary

Activity: 1288

Merit: 1043

:^)

the admin of the site seems rather hostile and is trying to rip both me and dooglus off, demanding a lower bounty for the deal, i am entertaining offers in this thread or through pm regarding this. a percentage of this will be paid to dooglus for his help in confirming this issue.

dooglus

legendary

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Quote from: dooglus on July 02, 2015, 03:27:58 PM

Quote from: subSTRATA on July 02, 2015, 02:17:30 PM

that wasnt the intention at the very beginning, but it is now. I've said it multiple times before in the thread, I will be contacting the site after dooglus's confirmation.

I just confirmed that the site in question does offer +EV bets for the player. In the worst case the edge is 30% for the player.

I fully expect the site to fix this when subSTRATA tells them about it.

I just discovered that I made an error verifying the +EV play.

It isn't a 30% edge for the player in the worst case.

It's a 32.26% edge for the player.

subSTRATA

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Quote from: galbros on July 02, 2015, 04:05:41 PM

Congratulations! Seriously. As all the detractors pointed out, this is tough to find and you would think site operators would be more careful.

I liked the way you handled it and it was nice of dooglus to both vouch for it as well as lay out how often minor oversights like rounding can easily lead to a positive expected value situation for the player.

Good Luck!

thanks, rather than draining the entire site's bankroll, im deciding to take the moral route for now, unless an offer for 5 BTC shows up in my inbox within the next hour Roll Eyes

dooglus also pointed out something; in the case the site decides not to pay me or such, there are plenty of pm's between me and dooglus proving the existence of this exploit, and if they choose not to pay, i doubt the site would ever be trusted if that evidence were ever to be posted in this thread.
ill be contacting the site's admins in a few hours when i am at a better location (home) unless something comes up.

locking until further news to prevent "omg tell me" spam.

galbros

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Quote from: subSTRATA on July 02, 2015, 03:28:55 PM

Quote from: dooglus on July 02, 2015, 03:27:58 PM

Quote from: subSTRATA on July 02, 2015, 02:17:30 PM

that wasnt the intention at the very beginning, but it is now. I've said it multiple times before in the thread, I will be contacting the site after dooglus's confirmation.

I just confirmed that the site in question does offer +EV bets for the player. In the worst case the edge is 30% for the player.

I fully expect the site to fix this when subSTRATA tells them about it.

there you go. I will be contacting the site about this ~~asap~~ when dooglus give then green light. panic ensues as dice site owners await a pm

Congratulations! Seriously. As all the detractors pointed out, this is tough to find and you would think site operators would be more careful.

I liked the way you handled it and it was nice of dooglus to both vouch for it as well as lay out how often minor oversights like rounding can easily lead to a positive expected value situation for the player.

Good Luck!

shulio

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Quote from: subSTRATA on July 02, 2015, 03:36:32 PM

Quote from: shulio on July 02, 2015, 03:34:15 PM

Quote from: dooglus on July 02, 2015, 03:27:58 PM

Quote from: subSTRATA on July 02, 2015, 02:17:30 PM

that wasnt the intention at the very beginning, but it is now. I've said it multiple times before in the thread, I will be contacting the site after dooglus's confirmation.

I just confirmed that the site in question does offer +EV bets for the player. In the worst case the edge is 30% for the player.

I fully expect the site to fix this when subSTRATA tells them about it.

And to give him a huge bounty. 30 % house edge for player is no joke at all, I wonder why only substrata notice this if there is 30 % house edge for players, all players playing there should have notice this as well. Is the details for this +EV strategy will be release later after the site fix it? I am curious to know how substrata notice this as well

this info will be released after the issue is fixed, pm's are still going on with dooglus regarding this. as for how i noticed it, you just have to use your head, all i can say.

Other player may have notice this as well and pretend they dont know anything about this and keep playing there like nothing happened. With 30 % house edge, player will get higher chance to win so it could be that they keep silent about this or they dont notice this because they keep on winning there

subSTRATA

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Quote from: shulio on July 02, 2015, 03:34:15 PM

Quote from: dooglus on July 02, 2015, 03:27:58 PM

Quote from: subSTRATA on July 02, 2015, 02:17:30 PM

that wasnt the intention at the very beginning, but it is now. I've said it multiple times before in the thread, I will be contacting the site after dooglus's confirmation.

I just confirmed that the site in question does offer +EV bets for the player. In the worst case the edge is 30% for the player.

I fully expect the site to fix this when subSTRATA tells them about it.

And to give him a huge bounty. 30 % house edge for player is no joke at all, I wonder why only substrata notice this if there is 30 % house edge for players, all players playing there should have notice this as well. Is the details for this +EV strategy will be release later after the site fix it? I am curious to know how substrata notice this as well

this info will be released after the issue is fixed, pm's are still going on with dooglus regarding this. as for how i noticed it, you just have to use your head, all i can say.

shulio

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Activity: 1540

Merit: 1016

Quote from: dooglus on July 02, 2015, 03:27:58 PM

Quote from: subSTRATA on July 02, 2015, 02:17:30 PM

that wasnt the intention at the very beginning, but it is now. I've said it multiple times before in the thread, I will be contacting the site after dooglus's confirmation.

I just confirmed that the site in question does offer +EV bets for the player. In the worst case the edge is 30% for the player.

I fully expect the site to fix this when subSTRATA tells them about it.

And to give him a huge bounty. 30 % house edge for player is no joke at all, I wonder why only substrata notice this if there is 30 % house edge for players, all players playing there should have notice this as well. Is the details for this +EV strategy will be release later after the site fix it? I am curious to know how substrata notice this as well

subSTRATA

legendary

Activity: 1288

Merit: 1043

:^)

Quote from: dooglus on July 02, 2015, 03:27:58 PM

Quote from: subSTRATA on July 02, 2015, 02:17:30 PM

that wasnt the intention at the very beginning, but it is now. I've said it multiple times before in the thread, I will be contacting the site after dooglus's confirmation.

I just confirmed that the site in question does offer +EV bets for the player. In the worst case the edge is 30% for the player.

I fully expect the site to fix this when subSTRATA tells them about it.

there you go. I will be contacting the site about this ~~asap~~ when dooglus give then green light. panic ensues as dice site owners await a pm

dooglus

legendary

Activity: 2940

Merit: 1333

Quote from: subSTRATA on July 02, 2015, 02:17:30 PM

that wasnt the intention at the very beginning, but it is now. I've said it multiple times before in the thread, I will be contacting the site after dooglus's confirmation.

I just confirmed that the site in question does offer +EV bets for the player. In the worst case the edge is 30% for the player.

I fully expect the site to fix this when subSTRATA tells them about it.

subSTRATA

legendary

Activity: 1288

Merit: 1043

:^)

Quote from: laughingbear on July 02, 2015, 01:58:11 PM

Quote from: subSTRATA on July 02, 2015, 01:44:41 PM

Quote from: tsoPANos on July 02, 2015, 01:38:55 PM

I understand some people simply don't know what that means.
But I am not one of them. There has been a misunderstanding.
From what I understand it is like reversed house edge.
So in the long run the house looses. But could you earn some serious btc with this?

potentially, yes. in theory, the math says you should be able to dump the house's bankroll because it is +EV of course, I would much rather tell the site and claim a reasonable bounty rather than sell it off to one or two people, unless those one or two people manage to offer a price high enough to buy off my morals. in addition, if the site decides to remedy this flaw, those one or two people would likely become rather angry at me, which is something id rather not have, even though it is something that I cannot be responsible for.

Then contact the site directly instead of posting a thread about it?

that wasnt the intention at the very beginning, but it is now. I've said it multiple times before in the thread, I will be contacting the site after dooglus's confirmation.

laughingbear

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Activity: 622

Merit: 500

www.cryptobetfair.com

Quote from: subSTRATA on July 02, 2015, 01:44:41 PM

Quote from: tsoPANos on July 02, 2015, 01:38:55 PM

I understand some people simply don't know what that means.
But I am not one of them. There has been a misunderstanding.
From what I understand it is like reversed house edge.
So in the long run the house looses. But could you earn some serious btc with this?

potentially, yes. in theory, the math says you should be able to dump the house's bankroll because it is +EV of course, I would much rather tell the site and claim a reasonable bounty rather than sell it off to one or two people, unless those one or two people manage to offer a price high enough to buy off my morals. in addition, if the site decides to remedy this flaw, those one or two people would likely become rather angry at me, which is something id rather not have, even though it is something that I cannot be responsible for.

Then contact the site directly instead of posting a thread about it?

subSTRATA

legendary

Activity: 1288

Merit: 1043

:^)

Quote from: tsoPANos on July 02, 2015, 01:38:55 PM

I understand some people simply don't know what that means.
But I am not one of them. There has been a misunderstanding.
From what I understand it is like reversed house edge.
So in the long run the house looses. But could you earn some serious btc with this?

potentially, yes. in theory, the math says you should be able to dump the house's bankroll because it is +EV of course, I would much rather tell the site and claim a reasonable bounty rather than sell it off to one or two people, unless those one or two people manage to offer a price high enough to buy off my morals. in addition, if the site decides to remedy this flaw, those one or two people would likely become rather angry at me, which is something id rather not have, even though it is something that I cannot be responsible for.

arallmuus

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Activity: 2562

Merit: 1414

Quote from: subSTRATA on July 02, 2015, 01:21:18 PM

Quote from: arallmuus on July 02, 2015, 01:18:24 PM

A "flaw" in this case is not the kinda "flaw" that was used by hufflepuff that could grant you ten or hundreds of BTC instantly and ensure you will win and become rich overnight ( it seems some people are getting the wrong idea about +EV )

It is a flaw that makes you have the +EV which means that it wont make you rich overnight and also unless you have a bankroll and proper management to use this, it wont work . You could suffer some losses before profit and time is the guarantee that you will get profit if you play it well.

there's your answer; I dont have the patience nor the resources to dedicate to this, in addition, this is gambling of all things, profit is not 100% guaranteed.

There is also no guarantee on how long this strategy will hold ( if it is indeed a +EV strategy ). Basically this thread is kinda an alert trigger with its title

Code:

+EV strategy in a dice site

Most dice sites around here will probably be triggered by this alarm just by reading on the title and once they figured it out then this "flaw" will be fix and it wont be a +EV strategy anymore. So the decision to sell it is the best option however notifying the site owner after dooglus verify your claim will get you a bounty as well I supose

Quote from: subSTRATA on July 02, 2015, 01:21:18 PM

people here seem to think that +EV means becoming the next hufflepuff, completely agree. people here think that "lolwhy is he selling this is he can become hufflepuff!!!! lol!!!!"

Sadly some people are keep getting on the wrong idea about such "basic" things in gambling such like provably fair , +EV and the other things. Might be great if someone could make an EDU thread which contain complete list about such things .
Therefore most people can stop getting into delusion that the site is rigged if they lost after having a 20 + red streak on 49.5 % and that +EV is the "thing" that will make you into the next hufflepuff

Quote from: tsoPANos on July 02, 2015, 01:38:55 PM

So in the long run the house looses. But could you earn some serious btc with this?

Yes and Yes. I have answered this, in a long run you could get a profit (just imagine yourself having a gambling site, thats all )

tsoPANos

hero member

Activity: 602

Merit: 500

In math we trust.

Quote from: subSTRATA on July 02, 2015, 01:21:18 PM

Quote from: arallmuus on July 02, 2015, 01:18:24 PM

Quote from: tsoPANos on July 02, 2015, 12:59:15 PM

I would have exploited the flaw and only after I earn some serious btc

A "flaw" in this case is not the kinda "flaw" that was used by hufflepuff that could grant you ten or hundreds of BTC instantly and ensure you will win and become rich overnight ( it seems some people are getting the wrong idea about +EV )

It is a flaw that makes you have the +EV which means that it wont make you rich overnight and also unless you have a bankroll and proper management to use this, it wont work . You could suffer some losses before profit and time is the guarantee that you will get profit if you play it well.

Quote from: trafficolaa on July 02, 2015, 01:04:10 PM

i will also wait to hear from dooglus about this strategy how is that effective in long term gambling.

If it is truly a strategy that will give you +EV then there is no doubt in the long term you will be getting profit. To put it simpler, imagine yourself that you own a gambling sites ( that means you have +EV ) .In one night timeframe, you cant be a rich man but in the long term you will get some profit eventually

+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1

people here seem to think that +EV means becoming the next hufflepuff, completely agree. people here think that "lolwhy is he selling this is he can become hufflepuff!!!! lol!!!!"
there's your answer; I dont have the patience nor the resources to dedicate to this, in addition, this is gambling of all things, profit is not 100% guaranteed.

I understand some people simply don't know what that means.
But I am not one of them. There has been a misunderstanding.
From what I understand it is like reversed house edge.
So in the long run the house looses. But could you earn some serious btc with this?

Topic: crypto-games.net, 30% house edge, bugs and vulnerabilities, screw the investors! - page 15. (Read 12998 times)