DefaultTrust changes - page 123. | Bitcointalksearch.org

mdayonliner

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Quote from: suchmoon on January 11, 2019, 12:03:55 PM

Quote from: mdayonliner on January 11, 2019, 11:48:15 AM

Quote

-# Trust list must include at least 10 users, ~distrust entries will not count.

Users can manipulate it. It's just 10 users.
How about, sort the members (ascending order) with total number of trust entries by users who have earned 10 merit each. Have their ~detrust entries too. Now we will find that someone is trusted by 100 users and someone is trusted by only 11 users. Trusted by 100 user stay but trusted by 11 user may eliminates if we already find our top 100 DT1. Before it was easy for trusted by 11 users to stay in the DT1 list by convincing only 10 members they know who have 10 merits.

I think that condition is there mostly to make sure that if you get into DT1 you're bringing at least 10 DT2 members. There is not much "abuse" prevention needed here.

Thank you. I messed it up but now it should be ok. Please check

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but on the other hand that might make it more static, i.e. people with the highest numbers of inclusions etc could get entrenched in DT1.

It does not make it static in fact it give the power to the members. If community think x is not ok to be in the DT1 list then they start ~detrusting him. Hi lose the top 100 or whatever the number theymos will decide in the next execution of the script. It actually make the list more dynamic and force the DT1s to be more responsible

Mpamaegbu

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Yawns!
Complaints and petitions loading...

We await the numerous threads that will grace this forum nextweek starting. Some near reclusive DT members will get busy once more. Good to have a change in the almost draconian DT setting.

suchmoon

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Quote from: mdayonliner on January 11, 2019, 11:48:15 AM

Quote

-# Trust list must include at least 10 users, ~distrust entries will not count.

Users can manipulate it. It's just 10 users.
How about, sort the members (ascending order) with total number of trust entries by users who have earned 10 merit each. Have their ~detrust entries too. Now we will find that someone is trusted by 100 users and someone is trusted by only 11 users. Trusted by 100 user stay but trusted by 11 user may eliminates if we already find our top 100 DT1. Before it was easy for trusted by 11 users to stay in the DT1 list by convincing only 10 members they know who have 10 merits.

I think that condition is there mostly to make sure that if you get into DT1 you're bringing at least 10 DT2 members. There is not much "abuse" prevention needed here.

Quote from: mdayonliner on January 11, 2019, 11:48:15 AM

Quote

-# 10 people trusting you with earned merit of at least 10 each (airdrop and merit sent by yourself does not count)

Again sort the members (ascending order) with total number of trust entries who have earned at least 10 merit each. It does the same job to eliminate the manipulation. Top 100 get the place for DT1.

Quote

-# 2 people trusting you with earned merit of at least 250 each (airdrop and merit sent by yourself does not count)

Do the same sorting.

Finally execute the algorithm. I think tweaking these three perimeters will make the entire DT1 list more dynamic if that is the goal.

theymos mentioned that he may pick a 100 randomly if the final list is > 100. That's about as dynamic as it gets. I would prefer the criteria to be gradually tightened to not exceed 100, similar to what you're suggesting, but on the other hand that might make it more static, i.e. people with the highest numbers of inclusions etc could get entrenched in DT1.

mdayonliner

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Quote from: Little Mouse on January 11, 2019, 12:00:24 PM

Quote from: suchmoon on January 11, 2019, 11:22:42 AM

And whats up with that (0). I don't have any empty lines as someone suggested.

It was actmyname or marlboroza. Can't remember correctly but instantly checked but nothing happen. It's either a bug or something new theymos gonna introduce.

~~It was actmyname who spotted it before~~
It was Lauda

Little Mouse

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Quote from: suchmoon on January 11, 2019, 11:22:42 AM

And whats up with that (0). I don't have any empty lines as someone suggested.

It was actmyname or marlboroza. Can't remember correctly but instantly checked but nothing happen. It's either a bug or something new theymos gonna introduce.

mdayonliner

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Quote from: jackg on January 11, 2019, 10:46:51 AM

The categories theymos is referring to are "earnt merit" and "airdropped merit".
Earnt merit is merits you're sent, airdropped is what you were given at the start.

E.g I've earnt >150 merits and was airdropped 1000

Theymos is considering only earn merits if my understanding is correct.

Quote from: suchmoon on January 11, 2019, 10:27:58 AM

Quote from: mdayonliner on January 11, 2019, 10:16:09 AM

How about now? Please check

Seems correct.

Fantastic. Thank you

Now that I understand the selection process (reference) I have few recommendations. I believe theymos is trying to make the DT1 list dynamic or at least this is the plan.

Quote

-# At least member rank earned merit 10 (airdrop does not count)
-# Must be online for last three days when theymos will execute the trust setting script. Maybe once in a month
-# User must not be banned/manually blacklisted.
-# At-least one post within the last 30 days. Again when theymos execute the trust setting script

Not much to dynamic the parameters however I wonder what motivates theymos to pick 30 and 3 for posting and active online? I am just interested to know the inspiration behind picking those numbers. Cheesy

Quote

-# Trust list must include at least 10 users, ~distrust entries will not count.

This one stays as it is since it is the members pick who is trying to get into the DT1 list.

Anyway, I guess theymos can play with the following parameters to make the DT1 list more dynamic and automated. But before that I guess he needs to have a goal of how many members he wants to have in DT1 list. i.e: 100 eligible users each time as you mentioned in the OP

Quote

-# 10 people trusting you with earned merit of at least 10 each (airdrop and merit sent by yourself does not count)

Users can manipulate it. It's just 10 users.
Sort the members (ascending order) with total number of trust entries who have earned at least 10 merit each. It eliminates the manipulation. Top 100 get the place for DT1. Before it was easy to have only 10 people but someone who have total 100 people trusted could be excluded easily.

Quote

-# 2 people trusting you with earned merit of at least 250 each (airdrop and merit sent by yourself does not count)

Do the same sorting.

Finally execute the algorithm. I think tweaking these ~~three~~ two perimeters will make the entire DT1 list more dynamic if that is the goal.

PS: Thanks to suchmoon again to correct me in one point.

o_e_l_e_o

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Quote from: mOgliE on January 11, 2019, 11:28:56 AM

Which means that I, for example, couldn't be on DT list until I have 1000 earned merit right? As I don't have enough earned merit compared to my rank right now.

No. You could be on DT. The only merit requirement for you is to have earned at least 10:

Quote from: theymos on January 09, 2019, 01:03:26 PM

- If rank was determined solely using earned merit, then you must be of at least Member rank.

The other merit requirements are for the users adding you to their trust lists (essentially voting for you to be on DT). You need 10 members with more than 10 merit trusting you, and 2 members with more than 250 merit.

mOgliE

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Quote from: jackg on January 11, 2019, 10:46:51 AM

The categories theymos is referring to are "earnt merit" and "airdropped merit".
Earnt merit is merits you're sent, airdropped is what you were given at the start.

E.g I've earnt >150 merits and was airdropped 1000

Which means that I, for example, couldn't be on DT list until I have 1000 earned merit right? As I don't have enough earned merit compared to my rank right now.

suchmoon

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theymos, could we have profile links in the trust tree? Would help a lot with reviewing inclusions and other miscreants:

Loading...

Edited 2020-11-30 to fix a broken image

And whats up with that (0). I don't have any empty lines as someone suggested.

jackg

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Quote from: mdayonliner on January 11, 2019, 10:16:09 AM

Quote from: S_Therapist on January 11, 2019, 10:07:02 AM

Or I misunderstood?

You did not. I was wrong. Thank you.

Quote from: suchmoon on January 11, 2019, 10:03:08 AM

~

How about now? Please check

The categories theymos is referring to are "earnt merit" and "airdropped merit".
Earnt merit is merits you're sent, airdropped is what you were given at the start.

E.g I've earnt >150 merits and was airdropped 1000

suchmoon

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Quote from: mdayonliner on January 11, 2019, 10:16:09 AM

How about now? Please check

Seems correct.

mdayonliner

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Quote from: S_Therapist on January 11, 2019, 10:07:02 AM

Or I misunderstood?

You did not. I was wrong. Thank you.

Quote from: suchmoon on January 11, 2019, 10:03:08 AM

~

How about now? Please check

playboy654

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Quote from: S_Therapist on January 11, 2019, 10:07:02 AM

Quote from: mdayonliner on January 11, 2019, 09:56:30 AM

Quote from: theymos on January 09, 2019, 01:03:26 PM

- You must have at least 10 people directly trusting you each with an earned merit of at least 10, not including merit you yourself sent.
- You must have at least 1 person directly trusting you with an earned merit of at least 100, not including merit you yourself sent.

I guess it's saying 10 members with earned 10 merits have to include you in their trust list.
1 memeber with earned 100 merits have to include you in his trust list.
Did you say the same or I misread what you have said?

Or I misunderstood?

Looks like he is also saying the same thing,but more thing he is mentioning that the selection process will be manual even if the person meets all this criteria and decision is upto the theymos to include or not.

S_Therapist

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Quote from: mdayonliner on January 11, 2019, 09:56:30 AM

Quote from: theymos on January 09, 2019, 01:03:26 PM

- You must have at least 10 people directly trusting you each with an earned merit of at least 10, not including merit you yourself sent.
- You must have at least 1 person directly trusting you with an earned merit of at least 100, not including merit you yourself sent.

I guess it's saying 10 members with earned 10 merits have to include you in their trust list. (Excluding your sent merits to them)
1 memeber with earned 100 merits have to include you in his trust list. (Excluding your sent merits to him)
Did you say the same or I misread what you have said?

Or I misunderstood?

Quote from: playboy654 on January 11, 2019, 10:12:26 AM

Looks like he is also saying the same thing,but more thing he is mentioning that the selection process will be manual even if the person meets all this criteria and decision is upto the theymos to include or not.

He has changed the statements, maybe you didn't notice.

suchmoon

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Quote from: mdayonliner on January 11, 2019, 09:56:30 AM

-# Have at least 10 people sent you 10 merits each
-# Have at least 1 person sent you 100 merit

Edit: not "sent you". They just need to have that many earned merits.

And the second condition is likely to be revised to require having 2 persons with 250 earned merits each.

Quote from: mdayonliner on January 11, 2019, 09:56:30 AM

Quote from: theymos on January 09, 2019, 01:03:26 PM

- You must have at least 10 people directly trusting you each with an earned merit of at least 10, not including merit you yourself sent.
- You must have at least 1 person directly trusting you with an earned merit of at least 100, not including merit you yourself sent.

I guess here theymos is talking about ATL/s. In that case, how do the system determine user x sent merit to himself?

Not merits sent to myself but merits by myself to people voting for me. If I send you 250 merits those merits don't count in your eligibility to vote for me.

In other words, if I find out who's including me in their trust lists I can't increase my chances by sending merits to those users because those merits won't count.

mdayonliner

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I had a revised look on the OP and this is my understanding of Check list to be in the DT1:
-# At least member rank earned merit 10 (airdrop does not count)
-# Must be online for last three days when theymos will execute the trust setting script. Maybe once in a month
-# Trust list must include at least 10 users, ~distrust entries will not count.
-# User must not be banned/manually blacklisted.
-# At-least one post within the last 30 days. Again when theymos execute the trust setting script
-# 10 people trusting you with earned merit of at least 10 each (airdrop and merit sent by yourself does not count)
-# 2 people trusting you with earned merit of at least 250 each (airdrop and merit sent by yourself does not count)

This is how DT1 generates once theymos execute the trust setting script.
However..
-# theymos can remove a user and blacklist him. The script will exclude this user. (This will be permanent unless theymos decides to whitelist the user again)
-# More number of ~detrust than trust by DT1 removes a user from DT1 (This could be temporary. Next execution of the trust setting script may change the equation for the current ~detrusted DT1)

Am I wrong in any point?

Update:
Thanks such moon and S_Therapist to correct me in some points.
Now I understand the selection process a bit better if not perfectly.

r1s2g3

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I am alive but in hibernation.

By looking at this thread, it look like even the veterans have some confusion how the trust system used to work.

Thanks Suchmoon. For giving detailed reply to every question that I asked and clearing my confusion and assumptions.

suchmoon

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Quote from: tmfp on January 11, 2019, 08:46:56 AM

Quote from: suchmoon on January 11, 2019, 08:44:06 AM

DT1 members can exclude DT2 members. That has been in place before these newest changes.

Gotcha.

That's how Lauda was kicked out BTW. 3 exclusions vs 2 inclusions I think.

tmfp

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Quote from: suchmoon on January 11, 2019, 08:44:06 AM

DT1 members can exclude DT2 members. That has been in place before these newest changes.

Gotcha.

suchmoon

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Quote from: tmfp on January 11, 2019, 08:32:24 AM

Quote from: suchmoon on January 11, 2019, 08:16:45 AM

so technically I think it's impossible to be in DT2 while being excluded from DT1.

Why so

To be in DT2 means being in the trust list of at least one DT1 member, doesn't it?
Doesn't the ability of DT1 members to collectively exclude a member only extend to DT1?
Does my post even make sense?

DT1 members can exclude DT2 members. That has been in place since before these newest changes.

So if you are voted into DT1 and get excluded by your DT1 peers (the original question) you will also be excluded from DT2 by definition, because exclusion criteria is the same for DT1 and DT2: if more DT1 members exclude you than include you - you're out.

Quote from: asche on January 11, 2019, 08:43:02 AM

My way of understanding was DT2 have the power to "kick out" other DT2.

No. If a DT2 member (or even multiple DT2 members) excludes another DT2 member that doesn't kick them out of DT2.

Quote from: mdayonliner on January 11, 2019, 08:28:12 AM

Quote from: suchmoon on January 11, 2019, 08:16:45 AM

Quote from: mdayonliner on January 11, 2019, 08:16:30 AM

I have this realization.

Default trust List: Set the Trust Dept 2
Custom trust list: Set any Trust Dept you prefer

Is this how it works?

Yes

How about other half Tongue

Default trust Dept?

Same answer for both. Set any depth you prefer. Depth 0 with DefaultTrust means you're not including anybody, so you'll see no red/green except for ratings you send to others (perhaps you can exclude ~yourself too, not sure). Depth 1 with DefaultTrust means you're trusting only DT1 members. Etc.

Topic: DefaultTrust changes - page 123. (Read 85467 times)