Topic: DefaultTrust changes - page 9. (Read 84267 times)

So? My point was we have only ~120 candidates, while theymos seemed to have expected to reach "hundreds", therefore stricter eligibility requirements are unlikely.

Not sure why you quote me with a response that isn't relevant to what I'm saying or what I'm replying to. Make a post without quoting if you want to say something unrelated.

I'd agree. Introducing a lottery would seem designed to make DT dysfunctional to experienced users and encourage them to exclude default trust and rely on their own chosen trust list. But at the same time leaving a DT system in place where actual scammers will still be likely to be seen as tagged by newbies who haven't worked out how to use the trust system yet. If the idea had really been to make it some kind of democracy then it would be based on the most votes counting. No democracy enters all candidates with a minimum number of votes into a lottery.

Yeah, I'm aware of the lack of exclusions and such, but I could have sworn that wolwoo was booted off DT (presumably for good) a long time ago.  I haven't checked yet, but I think I have him on my exclusion list, and I wouldn't have put him there had there not been some kind of incident (which I'm only vaguely remembering, but I do think there was one).

Yeah, you were around to remember the old days, as were a number of members I'm seeing in this thread--not all of whom were on DT back in the day, but I'm sure they remember how difficult it was to get on even DT2.  When I was being "vetted" for DT2, hilariousandco/Blazed/Lauda started a discussion about new additions, and it was a big deal.  It should be a big deal, because of how much power-through-feedback comes with it, as well as the power to potentially scam because of DT status.  I've said this probably 30 times: "Master-P, anyone?".

A group of 20 is too small for DT1, especially given how many members there are on the forum right now, but I do think it should be smaller than what it is.  DT1s can create DT2s, so I'm sure all the smarty-smart people here can do the math as to what tweaking the system can do (and has done).

Man, has it been that long?!  Time certainly does fly, doesn't it?  I guess that's why it seems like I haven't been paying attention to DT goings-on for what seems like forever.  I stopped caring once Theymos implemented the rotation system, though it didn't turn out to be a complete disaster like I thought it might.

Reducing number of people will only create more complains from majority members and they will say how it's impossible to ever become DT member.
I didn't reducing number of DT members is bad, but you would exclude some very good members that are contributing forum a lot.
As for scammers part, I am not so sure, but you can post information in public if you know DT1 scammers, don't speak in codes.

theymos is currently selecting 100 random, eligible users to be on DT1 each month. He has been doing this for the past 3 years.

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I think the intention is to make individual trust ratings less meaningful and to encourage people to make independent judgments about the risk to dealing with a person, rather than relying on the subjective opinions of a few people.

You don't think it already looks like that? No matter what system is in place, there will always be people complaining of the DT mafia or something ridiculous. We should hold elections every 6 months or year, 20 DT members selected and they are allowed 20 inclusions to DT2. I'm not trying to exclude people but at the same time, half of them don't even know what the hell they are doing or are scammers waiting to be caught.

No, this is about the users who can vote for DT1-users. A Newbie who received 250 Merit can vote for DT1 too, and a Member can reach DT1.
You currently are included by 5 users with 250+ earned Merit and 1 users with 10-249 earned Merit:

I've never really looked into the criteria for becoming a DT1 member; it's interesting that I met almost all of the criteria here; the only one I'm a little confused about is the bolded part; does this mean that a user must be a Hero rank or higher to become a DT1 member? Because one must have received 250 merits from two different users?(500 merits)Could someone please explain this part to me? I'm befuddled; the more I read, the less I understand.

Being active is already part of the requirements:


Merit requirements (10+ and 250+ merit user votes) could be increased considering merit "inflation", because people only gain merit and never lose it. However:


And we're not at "hundreds" yet, so it seems fully within theymos' expectations and I wouldn't expect any such changes any time soon.

Only 20 DT1 members for forum that has thousands of active users (and millions of registered) is not good, and it would look more like a closed cult or a sect of specially elected users.
I agree that current DT system needs to be improved maybe most for DT2 members, but I wouldn't reduce DT1 members five times.
Better number would be 50 DT1 members that is 50% reduction, and I would increase number of inclusions for DT2 members like LoyceV suggested.
It would be interesting to add something like activity strength that would reduce your DT level if you are inactive, and increase it if you are active user.

I think I'm going to nickname you "Bitcointalk encyclopedia".

Txs for the explanation.

I think this one will happen about a week before KYC, so not very likely. It was suggested several times in the past years, and I once checked the numbers: it would reduce the number of users on DT2 by about 50%. And it would end all "selfscratching".

I can imagine it's not easy to implement, because the 1 inclusion not only applies to DT1 and DT2, it works all the way down to DT4 depending on your own trust depth setting. And changing how that works might be undesirable.

That seems like a good idea to me.

Those of you who have been on the forum for a long time, what do you think is the probability that theymos will make such a change? I think he very rarely makes changes and that he thinks long and hard before making them.

That's going to be a monthly thing, but to make it 20 would actually be interesting. Raise the requirements, and also raise the requirements for DT2.
But it's not going to help: eventually, anyone can get enough inclusions to qualify again. So the only thing I'd really like to see is 2 instead of 1 inclusion to reach DT2.

Perhaps because theymos randomly selected the users that eligible to become DT1, as been stated the criteria below. But since many DT1 excluded him, he's no longer a DT1 and he's not on DT 2 too because no one DT1 user trust him wolwoo trustlist. So there's nothing to be worried.

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Pardon me since I don't know how the situation when there's only 12 users selected on DT1. But if theymos reduced 100 to 20 users to become DT1 users on every month, I think it's doesn't good since it makes the forum more centralized and perhaps theymos picked wrong users as DT1. Let's say he picked a group that abusing a trust system and they're trusting each others, it will mess up the forum with their not appropriate feedback. Not to mention not all 20 users will become DT1 as we didn't know those DT1 trust list and which user they distrust. 100 users are make sense for me.

This new way is terrible, seems like anyone can make DT. Back in the day when it was 12 users or whatnot, DT meant alot. I agree something needed to change, but 100 DT1 users is crazy. We need to hold an election or something and elect 20 users for DT1.

The DT1-lottery doesn't account for exclusions, but he had DT1-strength (-15) until the most recent change:

How the hell did wolwoo end up on DT, anyway?  I'm assuming he's temporarily removed from DT1 but is still on DT2, no? 

Thanks for the update, LoyceV.  It's been a while since I last looked at a DT update.  Oh, if only we could go back to the old days when being on the DT list actually meant something.  Surely I can't be alone in my thinking.

Theymos reshuffled DT1.

Removed:
     1. Staff gmaxwell (Trust: +10 / =0 / -0) (5171 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
     2. Staff malevolent (Trust: +3 / =1 / -0) (701 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
     3. Legendary fronti (Trust: +4 / =0 / -0) (280 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
     4. Global Moderator mprep (Trust: +7 / =0 / -0) (1436 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
     5. Legendary Carlton Banks (Trust: +2 / =0 / -0) (1843 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
     6. Legendary ibminer (Trust: +3 / =1 / -0) (1151 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
     7. Sr. Member Ticked (Trust: +29 / =0 / -0) (223 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
     8. Legendary Timelord2067 (Trust: +12 / =11 / -1) (900 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
     9. Staff EFS (Trust: +11 / =2 / -1) (335 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
    10. Global Moderator hilariousandco (Trust: +26 / =3 / -1) (1177 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
    11. Staff achow101 (Trust: +4 / =0 / -0) (3777 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
    12. Legendary irfan_pak10 (Trust: +11 / =1 / -1) (473 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
    13. Legendary yahoo62278 (Trust: +32 / =2 / -0) (1901 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
    14. Legendary zazarb (Trust: +27 / =2 / -0) (505 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
    15. Legendary Real-Duke (Trust: +1 / =0 / -0) (455 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
    16. Copper Member LeGaulois (Trust: +2 / =3 / -0) (2449 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
    17. Legendary BitcoinGirl.Club (Trust: +1 / =3 / -0) (1043 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
    18. Legendary imhoneer (Trust: +2 / =0 / -0) (962 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
    19. Legendary wolwoo (Trust: +0 / =3 / -4) (764 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
    20. Legendary CryptopreneurBrainboss (Trust: +11 / =1 / -0) (2698 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
    21. Legendary dkbit98 (Trust: +12 / =3 / -0) (4230 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
    22. Legendary Lakai01 (Trust: +2 / =0 / -0) (1891 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
    23. Legendary Bthd (Trust: +3 / =2 / -0) (1804 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
    24. Copper Member Corrosive (Trust: +25 / =0 / -0) (1089 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
    25. Copper Member rxalts (Trust: +32 / =0 / -0) (349 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
    26. Legendary efialtis (Trust: +24 / =1 / -0) (1213 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)

Added:
     1. Staff HostFat (Trust: +0 / =0 / -1) (159 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
     2. Donator OgNasty (Trust: +97 / =4 / -6) (1790 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
     3. Legendary yxt (Trust: +7 / =0 / -0) (86 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
     4. Legendary peloso (Trust: +1 / =4 / -5) (186 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
     5. Legendary vizique (Trust: +43 / =0 / -0) (597 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
     6. Legendary yogg (Trust: +34 / =0 / -0) (1994 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
     7. Legendary JayJuanGee (Trust: +4 / =0 / -0) (5372 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
     8. Legendary BitcoinPenny (Trust: +51 / =0 / -0) (929 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
     9. Legendary bitbollo (Trust: +8 / =1 / -0) (1277 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
    10. Legendary LFC_Bitcoin (Trust: +25 / =0 / -0) (5679 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
    11. Legendary o_solo_miner (Trust: +7 / =0 / -0) (353 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
    12. Copper Member actmyname (Trust: +20 / =1 / -0) (1459 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
    13. Legendary condoras (Trust: +12 / =1 / -0) (583 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
    14. Legendary Trofo (Trust: +5 / =0 / -0) (1348 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
    15. Legendary Coin-1 (Trust: +2 / =0 / -0) (1623 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
    16. Legendary icopress (Trust: +12 / =1 / -0) (2676 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
    17. Legendary GazetaBitcoin (Trust: +3 / =1 / -0) (2425 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
    18. Legendary tvplus006 (Trust: +15 / =0 / -0) (1513 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
    19. Staff mole0815 (Trust: +8 / =0 / -0) (2073 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
    20. Legendary witcher_sense (Trust: +16 / =0 / -0) (2667 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
    21. Legendary morvillz7z (Trust: +5 / =0 / -0) (1785 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
    22. Copper Member TalkStar (Trust: +11 / =0 / -0) (733 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
    23. Sr. Member The0ldl_lser (Trust: +1 / =0 / -0) (477 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
    24. Hero Member geophphreigh (Trust: +29 / =0 / -0) (865 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
    25. Hero Member Lachrymose (Trust: +3 / =1 / -0) (835 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)
    26. Legendary NotATether (Trust: +3 / =1 / -0) (2930 Merit earned) (Trust list) (BPIP)

thank you for the clarification
as always you are 10 steps ahead of normal people

in any case if I lost 6 times, it is very little .. or are there numbers that deny this statement of mine?

thank you anyway