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slapper

legendary

Activity: 1946

Merit: 1100

Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform

Quote from: smooth on September 19, 2014, 06:54:23 AM

Quote from: slapper on September 19, 2014, 06:46:38 AM

Quote from: smooth on September 19, 2014, 06:36:34 AM

Quote from: TheFascistMind on September 19, 2014, 06:27:20 AM

I wish I could offer a suggestion on how to alleviate the strong emotions at play. It seems some users really resent any hint of hierarchy and coaxing of investors.

I think you are right to an extent, but I think you are missing that simply any project that gets any degree of success or traction in this environment is brutally attacked. Monero has come out of nowhere to recently being a top 10 market cap coin (its fallen slightly out of that group; #10-15 are very close to being tied). Other projects have been similarly attacked. Monero is just the current installment.

So yes some of it is a reaction to rpietila directly and other aspects of the project, but much of it comes from people who find something to attack regardless. If not one thing it would be another.

I don't much care what people attack though. So yes the vitriol and FUD and shills and personal attacks are disgusting and sad, as you have seen, but ultimately meaningless.

smooth, you have turned into a full blown arrogant retard. You weren't this way when BitMonero was launched. XMR was the community CN coin. Brushing it as a coin that gets hated due to success is incorrect. There are a ton of reasons it gets hated and success is just a minor reason (just check few pages ago). If XMR market were a 10th of the current market and rest of the things around it were same, it would still get attacked, just like Bytecoin gets called out for their misgivings.

The success excuse is the same breath as the other tiring rhetoric that we use here "they hate us for our freedoms". They don't.

People hate for any number of reasons, I can't account for all of them. Honestly though, I think hate is pervasive in this environment. Its a contagious disease, and this "community" (tough word to even use any more) is being consumed by it.

Not one of the top 10 coins has escaped a barrage of attacks, certainly not any of the newer ones (one might exclude say NMC -- no one seems to care much about that one either way). I see hatred against every one of them constantly.

No one said you are accountable for all of them. What I did say was stop trying to pin the hatred on ~~fake~~ market success inducing jealousy. It is a convenient excuse that is not applicable here if you start introspection given several other reasons that have been mentioned by now.

smooth

legendary

Activity: 2968

Merit: 1198

Quote from: slapper on September 19, 2014, 06:46:38 AM

Quote from: smooth on September 19, 2014, 06:36:34 AM

Quote from: TheFascistMind on September 19, 2014, 06:27:20 AM

I wish I could offer a suggestion on how to alleviate the strong emotions at play. It seems some users really resent any hint of hierarchy and coaxing of investors.

I think you are right to an extent, but I think you are missing that simply any project that gets any degree of success or traction in this environment is brutally attacked. Monero has come out of nowhere to recently being a top 10 market cap coin (its fallen slightly out of that group; #10-15 are very close to being tied). Other projects have been similarly attacked. Monero is just the current installment.

So yes some of it is a reaction to rpietila directly and other aspects of the project, but much of it comes from people who find something to attack regardless. If not one thing it would be another.

I don't much care what people attack though. So yes the vitriol and FUD and shills and personal attacks are disgusting and sad, as you have seen, but ultimately meaningless.

smooth, you have turned into a full blown arrogant retard. You weren't this way when BitMonero was launched. XMR was the community CN coin. Brushing it as a coin that gets hated due to success is incorrect. There are a ton of reasons it gets hated and success is just a minor reason (just check few pages ago). If XMR market were a 10th of the current market and rest of the things around it were same, it would still get attacked, just like Bytecoin gets called out for their misgivings.

The success excuse is the same breath as the other tiring rhetoric that we use here "they hate us for our freedoms". They don't.

People hate for any number of reasons, I can't account for all of them. Honestly though, I think hate is pervasive in this environment. Its a contagious disease, and this "community" (tough word to even use any more) is being consumed by it.

Not one of the top 10 coins has escaped a barrage of attacks, certainly not any of the newer ones (one might exclude say NMC -- no one seems to care much about that one either way). I see hatred against every one of them constantly.

In the case of XMR in particular, much of the hatred is in response to actions by trolls that have nothing to do with us, some strategic, and some who just want to stir shit up for their own amusement. That further creates more trolls, particularly in the later group, who create more and more problems in a repeating and escalating cycle of attacks. As I said, the culture here is just sick and disgusting. Or maybe it is a just a few who are spoiling it for everyone and I shouldn't paint with such a broad brush. But the effect is the same.

illodin

hero member

Activity: 966

Merit: 1003

Quote from: smooth on September 18, 2014, 08:23:32 PM

Quote from: Kuriso on September 18, 2014, 08:20:54 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

~BCX~

Is there anyway for you to post some proof of these issues without giving them away? I bet there isn't but it would be great if you could.

In a way there is. He could write up a description (or use some existing one he probably already has) and post a hash of it. After it is discovered by someone else, he can disclose his original writeup, and the hash can be verified.

Odds of that happening is probably about the same as him(?) not being full of hot air. 9 to 1 against or so.

slapper

legendary

Activity: 1946

Merit: 1100

Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform

Quote from: smooth on September 19, 2014, 06:36:34 AM

Quote from: TheFascistMind on September 19, 2014, 06:27:20 AM

I wish I could offer a suggestion on how to alleviate the strong emotions at play. It seems some users really resent any hint of hierarchy and coaxing of investors.

I think you are right to an extent, but I think you are missing that simply any project that gets any degree of success or traction in this environment is brutally attacked. Monero has come out of nowhere to recently being a top 10 market cap coin (its fallen slightly out of that group; #10-15 are very close to being tied). Other projects have been similarly attacked. Monero is just the current installment.

So yes some of it is a reaction to rpietila directly and other aspects of the project, but much of it comes from people who find something to attack regardless. If not one thing it would be another.

I don't much care what people attack though. So yes the vitriol and FUD and shills and personal attacks are disgusting and sad, as you have seen, but ultimately meaningless.

smooth, you have turned into a full blown arrogant retard. You weren't this way when BitMonero was launched. XMR was the community CN coin. Brushing it as a coin that gets hated due to success is incorrect. There are a ton of reasons it gets hated and success is just a minor reason (just check few pages ago). If XMR market were a 10th of the current market and rest of the things around it were same, it would still get attacked, just like Bytecoin gets called out for their misgivings.

The success excuse is the same breath as the other tiring rhetoric that we use here "they hate us for our freedoms". They don't.

TheFascistMind

newbie

Activity: 42

Merit: 0

Maybe not if they can all find a way to profit on its rise. That is my hope any way. I know such vitriol would affect me emotionally. Perhaps I better just not read anything on the forum if that time ever comes.

smooth

legendary

Activity: 2968

Merit: 1198

Quote from: TheFascistMind on September 19, 2014, 06:27:20 AM

I wish I could offer a suggestion on how to alleviate the strong emotions at play. It seems some users really resent any hint of hierarchy and coaxing of investors.

I think you are right to an extent, but I think you are missing that simply any project that gets any degree of success or traction in this environment is brutally attacked. Monero has come out of nowhere to recently being a top 10 market cap coin (its fallen slightly out of that group; #10-15 are very close to being tied). Other projects have been similarly attacked. Monero is just the current installment.

So yes some of it is a reaction to rpietila directly and other aspects of the project, but much of it comes from people who find something to attack regardless. If not one thing it would be another.

I don't much care what people attack though. So yes the vitriol and FUD and shills and personal attacks are disgusting and sad, as you have seen, but ultimately meaningless.

TheFascistMind

newbie

Activity: 42

Merit: 0

smooth and rpietila, this is a good experiment so we can contrast what works and doesn't. I hope you can continue with your bureaucracy. I am headed the opposite direction, which is small lone teams self-funded by tiny (insignificant) premine to reach it to the launchpad stage. Let's see what works better.

I wish I could offer a suggestion on how to alleviate the strong emotions at play. It seems some users really resent any hint of hierarchy and coaxing of investors. Perhaps it is the comments against NXT and BBR that really pushed it to the extreme. I have also made some comments that disparaged for example the PoS in NXT, the lack of true decentralization in jl777's gateway, the lack of analysis on the entropy of BBR's PoW, etc.. I guess best is to shut up about everyone else's work and focus on one's own.

smooth

legendary

Activity: 2968

Merit: 1198

Quote from: TheFascistMind on September 19, 2014, 06:00:37 AM

Quote from: smooth on September 19, 2014, 04:52:14 AM

(but does intend to donate to development) and doesn't hold any position of authority over the project itself.

He who pays the bills, makes the rules.

That would be true if there was some plan to have this group pay the bills, or channel all/most funding through the group (there isn't). In reality the envisioned donations from such a group don't come close to being adequate to do so. It will just be one funding source among others, not at all unlike the members of such a group donating individually.

One purpose for the group making donations, in fact, is internal to the group itself: to discourage membership by those who would seek to undermine the project. Since the group is open and anyone can join, that would be a risk. But anyone doing that will have a portion of his membership dues directed to donations to support the project, directly undermining his own interests. So think of it as a form of anti-spam/abuse.

TheFascistMind

newbie

Activity: 42

Merit: 0

One thing I have learned from the Monero example is, "tread softly and carry a really big stick".

Action speaks louder than words.

David Latapie

hero member

Activity: 658

Merit: 503

Monero Core Team

Quote from: ?? on ??

the lead developer "smooth"

Quote from: ?? on ??

the lead developer "smooth"

There is no "lead developer" in Monero. There are developers and some also happen to be core members.
We are trying hard to avoid hierarchy, please respect that.

Quote from: instacalm on September 19, 2014, 05:23:45 AM

Quote from: dEBRUYNE on September 19, 2014, 05:21:30 AM

The monero economy workgroup (MEW) is not a foundation.
See: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/monero-economy-workgroup-the-mew-thread-776479

Quote from: rpietila on September 12, 2014, 04:20:13 AM

The voting aspect could be conveyed by "Parliament" or similar. "Council", even "Consortium" have been proposed. "Foundation" is often used but was rejected in yesterday's meeting.

So basically it's a foundation but not called foundation

Stricto censu, a foundation is a legally-registered body, sometimes with tax-deduction (when it is a charitable foundation, unlike the Gates Foundation). So MEW is not a foundation per se. Also, foundation usually govern the orientation of a project (this is not mandatory, though, just very common). Again, this is not what MEW will do. Under the French law, it would be called a "non-registered association" and there is probably something similar in any democracy (de facto association).
MEW is a collective. Period.

slapper

legendary

Activity: 1946

Merit: 1100

Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform

Quote from: YarkoL on September 19, 2014, 02:45:31 AM

Quote from: slapper on September 18, 2014, 11:18:27 PM

@BCX (and or AnonyMint)

Regarding #1 and #3, is the BBR code base with its different PoW and other core changes already resistant to the same exploit?

Edit: https://github.com/cryptozoidberg/boolberry

Quote from: BitcoinEXpress on September 17, 2014, 11:01:54 AM

* I have found very specific exploits in CN that have not been fixed

If that is true, it will affect all CN coins. Since Boolberry just places some restrictions to
the set of possible anon transactions it would not be resistant.

However

Quote from: ?? on ??

2) There is no break down in the encryption but in how it is implemented.

This was about #1 and #3 and not addressed to you (for a good reason).

TheFascistMind

newbie

Activity: 42

Merit: 0

Quote from: smooth on September 19, 2014, 04:52:14 AM

(but does intend to donate to development) and doesn't hold any position of authority over the project itself.

He who pays the bills, makes the rules.

As much as practical I resist control in order to maximize creative freedom.

Quote from: ?? on ??

when think of monero guyes on Bitcointalk

Ignore. I don't want to see that.

The feelings are really excessive in this Monero pro and against battle.

TinEye

hero member

Activity: 639

Merit: 500

If Bitcoinexpress has an exploit, just use it already. The Monero and anti-Monero trolling has become an all out war. At this moment anybody winning is good for us.

instacalm

hero member

Activity: 798

Merit: 500

Quote from: smooth on September 19, 2014, 05:31:36 AM

Call it whatever the hell you want. The people running it aren't calling it a foundation, and the role that it serves is certainly different from some of the other coin foundations that exist. But if you want to say it is "basically a foundation" go right ahead. I'm not sure anyone actually cares. I sure don't.

I don't care either (have 0 XMR), I just find it pretty funny

smooth

legendary

Activity: 2968

Merit: 1198

Quote from: instacalm on September 19, 2014, 05:23:45 AM

Quote from: dEBRUYNE on September 19, 2014, 05:21:30 AM

The monero economy workgroup (MEW) is not a foundation.
See: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/monero-economy-workgroup-the-mew-thread-776479

Quote from: rpietila on September 12, 2014, 04:20:13 AM

The voting aspect could be conveyed by "Parliament" or similar. "Council", even "Consortium" have been proposed. "Foundation" is often used but was rejected in yesterday's meeting.

So basically it's a foundation but not called foundation

Call it whatever the hell you want. The people running it aren't calling it a foundation, and the role that it serves is certainly different from some of the other coin foundations that exist. But if you want to say it is "basically a foundation" go right ahead. I'm not sure anyone actually cares. I sure don't.

smooth

legendary

Activity: 2968

Merit: 1198

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: farfiman on September 19, 2014, 02:10:39 AM

Apparently you have- your words were attack enough- no need to actually do anything.

Quote from: ?? on ??

Sitting on XMR is a mistake because there are way too many open vectors .......

You conveniently left out the part where the lead developer "smooth" agreed with me that it is indeed full of holes and leaving any amount of value in it is risky.

Something being risky doesn't mean it is a mistake or that you shouldn't it. That is a question of price, and ultimately, individual judgement. Just be aware of the risks.

instacalm

hero member

Activity: 798

Merit: 500

Quote from: dEBRUYNE on September 19, 2014, 05:21:30 AM

The monero economy workgroup (MEW) is not a foundation.
See: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/monero-economy-workgroup-the-mew-thread-776479

Quote from: rpietila on September 12, 2014, 04:20:13 AM

The voting aspect could be conveyed by "Parliament" or similar. "Council", even "Consortium" have been proposed. "Foundation" is often used but was rejected in yesterday's meeting.

So basically it's a foundation but not called foundation

dEBRUYNE

legendary

Activity: 2268

Merit: 1141

Quote from: instacalm on September 19, 2014, 05:18:25 AM

Quote from: superresistant on September 19, 2014, 05:12:18 AM

Monero is the money of people.
No hierarchy, no rules, no restrictions.
Get it ?

No I don't, sorry

Also could you please explain the contradiction I quoted in the above post? Thanks

The monero economy workgroup (MEW) is not a foundation.
See: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/monero-economy-workgroup-the-mew-thread-776479

instacalm

hero member

Activity: 798

Merit: 500

Quote from: superresistant on September 19, 2014, 05:12:18 AM

Monero is the money of people.
No hierarchy, no rules, no restrictions.
Get it ?

No, actually I don't

Also could you please explain the contradiction I quoted in the above post? Thanks

superresistant

legendary

Activity: 2156

Merit: 1131

Quote from: instacalm on September 19, 2014, 05:06:31 AM

Quote from: smooth on September 19, 2014, 04:52:14 AM

This Monero Economic Workgroup aka "foundation" (?) is somewhat different in scope and direction than say the Bitcoin foundation or some of the other coin foundations.

Quote from: fluffypony on July 20, 2014, 05:52:33 AM

Speaking as one of the Monero core team members, I can assure you that there will NEVER be a Monero Foundation. If anyone starts something like that we will reject it, and will encourage the community to reject it.

?

Monero is the money of people.
No hierarchy, no rules, no restrictions.
Get it ?

Topic: delete - page 8. (Read 27672 times)