Topic: ★★DigiByte|极特币★★[DGB]✔ Core v6.16.5.1 - DigiShield, DigiSpeed, Segwit - page 1348. (Read 3058921 times)

Quote from: DigiByte on June 10, 2014, 01:48:07 PM

We could potentially merge mine with doge/litecoin on the scrypt algo, bitcoin on the sha256 algo and the myriad on the other three algos. This could make DigiByte very attractive to miners.

Now you are talking absolutely opposite thing to your previous post. If you want to get DGB by mining MYR, DOGE, LTC, BTC you will kill this coin.
If you want to mine DGB and get MYR, BTC, LTC, etc you have to hardfork these coins to accept DGB PoW. It's impossible. Only MYR if they are agree.

Only one coin is required to hard fork & merge mine. We could hard fork right now and merge mine with Doge or Litecoin on Scrypt. For example, when you mine Bitcoins you only get Bitcoins. When you mine Namecoin you get Namecoins & bitcoins. That is how merge mining works.

So when Doge talked about merge mining with us we would hard fork and add the merge code. Then when people mined Doge they would only get doge. But when they mined DigiByte they would get DigiByte & doge.

Ok it seems there are two different approaches of merged mining and we are talking about different things. Do it if you believe in it, you are dev. Personally I think that miners comes with value and not value comes with miners. Never liked the idea of merged mining, coins must not be a bonus.

Yes. For the time being we will just keep implementing the multi-algo approach with no merged mining. It adds an additional step of complexity no one is sure about right now.

sammy007

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Quote from: sammy007 on June 10, 2014, 01:44:15 PM

Quote from: sammy007 on June 10, 2014, 01:44:15 PM

We could potentially merge mine with doge/litecoin on the scrypt algo, bitcoin on the sha256 algo and the myriad on the other three algos. This could make DigiByte very attractive to miners.

Now you are talking absolutely opposite thing to your previous post. If you want to get DGB by mining MYR, DOGE, LTC, BTC you will kill this coin.
If you want to mine DGB and get MYR, BTC, LTC, etc you have to hardfork these coins to accept DGB PoW. It's impossible. Only MYR if they are agree.

Only one coin is required to hard fork & merge mine. We could hard fork right now and merge mine with Doge or Litecoin on Scrypt. For example, when you mine Bitcoins you only get Bitcoins. When you mine Namecoin you get Namecoins & bitcoins. That is how merge mining works.

So when Doge talked about merge mining with us we would hard fork and add the merge code. Then when people mined Doge they would only get doge. But when they mined DigiByte they would get DigiByte & doge.

Ok it seems there are two different approaches of merged mining and we are talking about different things. Do it if you believe in it, you are dev. Personally I think that miners comes with value and not value comes with miners. Never liked the idea of merged mining, coins must not be a bonus.

DigiByte

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We could potentially merge mine with doge/litecoin on the scrypt algo, bitcoin on the sha256 algo and the myriad on the other three algos. This could make DigiByte very attractive to miners.

Now you are talking absolutely opposite thing to your previous post. If you want to get DGB by mining MYR, DOGE, LTC, BTC you will kill this coin.
If you want to mine DGB and get MYR, BTC, LTC, etc you have to hardfork these coins to accept DGB PoW. It's impossible. Only MYR if they are agree.

Only one coin is required to hard fork & merge mine. We could hard fork right now and merge mine with Doge or Litecoin on Scrypt. For example, when you mine Bitcoins you only get Bitcoins. When you mine Namecoin you get Namecoins & bitcoins. That is how merge mining works.

So when Doge talked about merge mining with us we would hard fork and add the merge code. Then when people mined Doge they would only get doge. But when they mined DigiByte they would get DigiByte & doge.

sammy007

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Quote from: sammy007 on June 10, 2014, 01:33:05 PM

We could potentially merge mine with doge/litecoin on the scrypt algo, bitcoin on the sha256 algo and the myriad on the other three algos. This could make DigiByte very attractive to miners.

Now you are talking absolutely opposite thing to your previous post. If you want to get DGB by mining MYR, DOGE, LTC, BTC you will kill this coin.
If you want to mine DGB and get MYR, BTC, LTC, etc you have to hardfork these coins to accept DGB PoW. It's impossible. Only MYR if they are agree.

DigiByte

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Quote from: DigiByte on June 10, 2014, 01:32:08 PM

Quote from: sammy007 on June 10, 2014, 01:29:31 PM

Quote from: DigiByte on June 10, 2014, 01:30:57 PM

We want to clarify what merge mining means. When we say merge that means miners have the ability to mine two coins at once. The coins and chains themselves stay completely separate. Transactions stay independent of each other. So does each coins respected value.

It is a much more efficient use of your miners. You will use less electricity and get much more for your hash.

The next evolution of crypto currency mining will be merge-mined multi pools. They are already being developed. This means a coin does not have a choice and will be automatically merge mined with other coins.

Look at namecoin, it is still in the top 10 and has been merge mined for years.

With merge-mining MYR miners who dedicated their hash to mine MYR will get free bonus coins. Nothing to discuss there. As I said look at MON specs and charts. Fairest coin on the ground.
Expect a small amount of current MYR pools will offer merged mining to their miners, other pools will add merged mining but all mined DGB by MYR miners on such pools will be claimed by pools. Then such free DGB will be dumped by pools.

The one and only winner is MYR. You will secure MYR network and kill DGB. This is on the surface, obvious.

Namecoin is special.

Once again, people will have to mine DGB to get MYR. Not the other way around as that is not how the merge mining works. This is very beneficial to DigiByte.

How you are going to punish MYR devs to accept DGB POW?

We are not going to "punish" anyone. They are a very friendly bunch and we have been talking with them over IRC. They have even offered to help us test things. We are have not decided to merge for sure but we wanted to get a discussion started.

We don't see how merge-mining would hurt. We only see how it could benifit DigiByte by making it much more attractive to miners.

We could potentially merge mine with doge/litecoin on the scrypt algo, bitcoin on the sha256 algo and the myriad on the other three algos. This could make DigiByte very attractive to miners.

Also please understand all "merging" means is when your hashes are submitted to the DigiByte chain they are then forwarded on to another coins chain to see if they might get "lucky" and find and block there as well as an added bonus.

It is a much more efficient mining process for everyone.

,./,./

sr. member

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also good news today

the wallet works again! Grin

haggis

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Either way a hard fork is required. We want to avoid back to back hard forks. The biggest issue is that we need to have mining infrastructure in place at the exact block switch. So why not kill all three birds at once with only 1 hard fork.

Also keep in mind people will have to mine DigiByte to get myriad. Not the other way around. It is one sided.

Well, at the end you have the authority to decide. I don't think we can find a consensus about this topic. There are no major coins with mm beside namecoin so we can't learn from previous experiences here, which is always more risky than the other way.

However, if DGB stays the main coin with mm then we should have enough community members / believers mining it. Could be worth a try, but I can't contribute more thoughts on this from now on due to lack of experience/knowledge.

sammy007

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Quote from: DigiByte on June 10, 2014, 01:32:08 PM

Quote from: sammy007 on June 10, 2014, 01:29:31 PM

Quote from: sammy007 on June 10, 2014, 01:29:31 PM

We want to clarify what merge mining means. When we say merge that means miners have the ability to mine two coins at once. The coins and chains themselves stay completely separate. Transactions stay independent of each other. So does each coins respected value.

It is a much more efficient use of your miners. You will use less electricity and get much more for your hash.

The next evolution of crypto currency mining will be merge-mined multi pools. They are already being developed. This means a coin does not have a choice and will be automatically merge mined with other coins.

Look at namecoin, it is still in the top 10 and has been merge mined for years.

With merge-mining MYR miners who dedicated their hash to mine MYR will get free bonus coins. Nothing to discuss there. As I said look at MON specs and charts. Fairest coin on the ground.
Expect a small amount of current MYR pools will offer merged mining to their miners, other pools will add merged mining but all mined DGB by MYR miners on such pools will be claimed by pools. Then such free DGB will be dumped by pools.

The one and only winner is MYR. You will secure MYR network and kill DGB. This is on the surface, obvious.

Namecoin is special.

Once again, people will have to mine DGB to get MYR. Not the other way around as that is not how the merge mining works. This is very beneficial to DigiByte.

How you are going to punish MYR devs to accept DGB PoW? So MYR is going to be merged-mineable with DGB and not DGB is going to be merged-mineable with MYR. If so, I like it.

DigiByte

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Official DigiByte Account

Quote from: haggis on June 10, 2014, 01:28:26 PM

We want to clarify what merge mining means. When we say merge that means miners have the ability to mine two coins at once. The coins and chains themselves stay completely separate. Transactions stay independent of each other. So does each coins respected value.

It is a much more efficient use of your miners. You will use less electricity and get much more for your hash.

The next evolution of crypto currency mining will be merge-mined multi pools. They are already being developed. This means a coin does not have a choice and will be automatically merge mined with other coins.

Look at namecoin, it is still in the top 10 and has been merge mined for years.

With merge-mining MYR miners who dedicated their hash to mine MYR will get free bonus coins. Nothing to discuss there. As I said look at MON specs and charts. Fairest coin on the ground.
Expect a small amount of current MYR pools will offer merged mining to their miners, other pools will add merged mining but all mined DGB by MYR miners on such pools will be claimed by pools. Then such free DGB will be dumped by pools.

The one and only winner is MYR. You will secure MYR network and kill DGB. This is on the surface, obvious.

Namecoin is special.

Once again, people will have to mine DGB to get MYR. Not the other way around as that is not how the merge mining works. This is very beneficial to DigiByte.

DigiByte

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Activity: 1722

Merit: 1051

Official DigiByte Account

We want to clarify what merge mining means. When we say merge that means miners have the ability to mine two coins at once. The coins and chains themselves stay completely separate. Transactions stay independent of each other. So does each coins respected value.

It is a much more efficient use of your miners. You will use less electricity and get much more for your hash.

The next evolution of crypto currency mining will be merge-mined multi pools. They are already being developed. This means a coin does not have a choice and will be automatically merge mined with other coins.

Look at namecoin, it is still in the top 10 and has been merge mined for years.

Looks as you prefer merged mining over a stand-alone implementation

But I'm still interested in the following question: does merged-mining with MYR require to implement multi-algo first? It sounds reasonable to me. If a coin already has multi-algo and want to switch to merged-mining, is then a hardfork required?

Either way a hard fork is required. We want to avoid back to back hard forks. The biggest issue is that we need to have mining infrastructure in place at the exact block switch. So why not kill all three birds at once with only 1 hard fork.

Also keep in mind people will have to mine DigiByte to get myriad. Not the other way around. It is one sided.

sammy007

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Activity: 1904

Merit: 1003

We want to clarify what merge mining means. When we say merge that means miners have the ability to mine two coins at once. The coins and chains themselves stay completely separate. Transactions stay independent of each other. So does each coins respected value.

It is a much more efficient use of your miners. You will use less electricity and get much more for your hash.

The next evolution of crypto currency mining will be merge-mined multi pools. They are already being developed. This means a coin does not have a choice and will be automatically merge mined with other coins.

Look at namecoin, it is still in the top 10 and has been merge mined for years.

With merge-mining MYR miners who dedicated their hash to mine MYR will get free bonus coins. Nothing to discuss there. As I said look at MON specs and charts. Fairest coin on the ground.
Expect a small amount of current MYR pools will offer merged mining to their miners, other pools will add merged mining but all mined DGB by MYR miners on such pools will be claimed by pools. Then such free DGB will be dumped by pools.

The one and only winner is MYR. You will secure MYR network and kill DGB. This is on the surface, obvious. And this is a reason you are welcome there because you are offering free help and hype to them.

Namecoin is special.

haggis

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Quote from: haggis on June 10, 2014, 01:21:05 PM

We want to clarify what merge mining means. When we say merge that means miners have the ability to mine two coins at once. The coins and chains themselves stay completely separate. Transactions stay independent of each other. So does each coins respected value.

It is a much more efficient use of your miners. You will use less electricity and get much more for your hash.

The next evolution of crypto currency mining will be merge-mined multi pools. They are already being developed. This means a coin does not have a choice and will be automatically merge mined with other coins.

Look at namecoin, it is still in the top 10 and has been merge mined for years.

Looks as you prefer merged mining over a stand-alone implementation

But I'm still interested in the following question: does merged-mining with MYR require to implement multi-algo first? It sounds reasonable to me. If a coin already has multi-algo and want to switch to merged-mining, is then a hardfork required?

EDIT: 500 pages, Yippee Ki Yay Moth***r! Grin

DigiByte

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Quote from: DigiByte on June 10, 2014, 01:10:54 PM

Quote from: ReRunRod on June 10, 2014, 01:02:02 PM

Quote from: DigiByte on June 10, 2014, 12:56:44 PM

Quote from: sammy007 on June 10, 2014, 12:54:31 PM

Quote from: DigiByte on June 10, 2014, 01:19:27 PM

What do you all think about merge-mining with Myriadcoin?

Idiotic idea, pools will dump DGB to the hell because only small amount of MYR miners will claim their FREE DGB coins. Check MON price charts, pools are dumping it regardless of a price. You will kill this coin offering merged-mining, all your efforts will be buried.

I wouldn't call it "idiotic" but I also think this would pin a "Discount" label on DGB. Better finish multi-algo implementation asap. If the chain stays slow for 2-4 days longer it doesn't hurt that hard as there is still only low activity on the blockchain.

If it goes multi-algo dev must calculate initial difficulty for each algo and do something with readjustment to avoid instamine by SHA ASICs, FPGA farms, etc...

This is what DigiShield does, the difficulty adjustment code will be adjusted as needed. This is not an issue. Nor is it how multi-algo works. Each algo can only find so many blocks in a row before the other algos must find one. Each algos difficulty is adjusted independently.

What type of algos will you have in place? The same as Myriad coin or different?

In the interest of time we may stick with the same for the time being. We are the first coin to ever fork to multi-algo. It is very complicated to implement. We were planning on doing this over a couple months. We are now forced to try and do this in a few days to a couple weeks.

Otherwise our only option is to do back to back hard forks which is no where near ideal or feasible.

Is merged-mining easier/quicker to implement than a standalone multi-algo? Or is the multi-algo implementation nevertheless needed for merged-mining?

Yes, it will me easier to implement. We will get a short term boost but more importantly the infrastructure for mining will be available from the beginning.

DigiByte

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Official DigiByte Account

We want to clarify what merge mining means. When we say merge that means miners have the ability to mine two coins at once. The coins and chains themselves stay completely separate. Transactions stay independent of each other. So does each coins respected value.

It is a much more efficient use of your miners. You will use less electricity and get much more for your hash.

The next evolution of crypto currency mining will be merge-mined multi pools. They are already being developed. This means a coin does not have a choice and will be automatically merge mined with other coins.

Look at namecoin, it is still in the top 10 and has been merge mined for years.

,./,./

sr. member

Activity: 392

Merit: 250

Quote from: sammy007 on June 10, 2014, 01:12:22 PM

Quote from: DigiByte on June 10, 2014, 01:07:19 PM

Quote from: DigiByte on June 10, 2014, 01:10:54 PM

What do you all think about merge-mining with Myriadcoin?

Idiotic idea, pools will dump DGB to the hell because only small amount of MYR miners will claim their FREE DGB coins. Check MON price charts, pools are dumping it regardless of a price. You will kill this coin offering merged-mining, all your efforts will be buried.

I wouldn't call it "idiotic" but I also think this would pin a "Discount" label on DGB. Better finish multi-algo implementation asap. If the chain stays slow for 2-4 days longer it doesn't hurt that hard as there is still only low activity on the blockchain.

Multi-pools have already been dumping DGB for a long time. That is part of the crypto world as we know it. Comparing DigiByte to "Monocle" is nowhere near a fair comparison. We had never heard of them until you mentioned it.

You still won't listen. There is no worse blind than the one who do not want to see. You will convert DGB from solid coin to free bonus for MYR miners. A lot of pools will have a lot of free DGB because a lot of users will not claim DGB and such pools will dump it to the hell. Period.

There is much more to this than you realize. DigiByte is an older coin then Myriad. We have just as large of a user / investor base. If anything this will give many more people incentive to mine DigiByte. For multiple reasons. This is not a winner take all scenario my friend.

there are benefits and disadvantages......

haggis

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Quote from: ReRunRod on June 10, 2014, 01:02:02 PM

Quote from: DigiByte on June 10, 2014, 12:56:44 PM

Quote from: sammy007 on June 10, 2014, 12:54:31 PM

Quote from: sammy007 on June 10, 2014, 01:12:22 PM

What do you all think about merge-mining with Myriadcoin?

Idiotic idea, pools will dump DGB to the hell because only small amount of MYR miners will claim their FREE DGB coins. Check MON price charts, pools are dumping it regardless of a price. You will kill this coin offering merged-mining, all your efforts will be buried.

I wouldn't call it "idiotic" but I also think this would pin a "Discount" label on DGB. Better finish multi-algo implementation asap. If the chain stays slow for 2-4 days longer it doesn't hurt that hard as there is still only low activity on the blockchain.

If it goes multi-algo dev must calculate initial difficulty for each algo and do something with readjustment to avoid instamine by SHA ASICs, FPGA farms, etc...

This is what DigiShield does, the difficulty adjustment code will be adjusted as needed. This is not an issue. Nor is it how multi-algo works. Each algo can only find so many blocks in a row before the other algos must find one. Each algos difficulty is adjusted independently.

What type of algos will you have in place? The same as Myriad coin or different?

In the interest of time we may stick with the same for the time being. We are the first coin to ever fork to multi-algo. It is very complicated to implement. We were planning on doing this over a couple months. We are now forced to try and do this in a few days to a couple weeks.

Otherwise our only option is to do back to back hard forks which is no where near ideal or feasible.

Is merged-mining easier/quicker to implement than a standalone multi-algo? Or is the multi-algo implementation nevertheless needed for merged-mining?

DigiByte

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Quote from: DigiByte on June 10, 2014, 01:07:19 PM