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Topic: ★★DigiByte|极特币★★[DGB]✔ Core v6.16.5.1 - DigiShield, DigiSpeed, Segwit - page 1374. (Read 3058926 times)

sr. member
Activity: 421
Merit: 250
Hello everyone! After today (Memorial Day here in the States) we will be ramping up development and working hard! We will make an algorithm announcement this week. We realize time is of significant importance right now. Hope you all had a good weekend! We are excited for this next week!


Good news! To the moon!
legendary
Activity: 1722
Merit: 1051
Official DigiByte Account
Hello everyone! After today (Memorial Day here in the States) we will be ramping up development and working hard! We will make an algorithm announcement this week. We realize time is of significant importance right now. Hope you all had a good weekend! We are excited for this next week!
full member
Activity: 168
Merit: 100
Are we really at 70 satoshis? WTF is up with people praising shitcoins and giving them fake value instread of supporting DGB?

More like ~35 satoshi.

Those shitcoins have lots of announcements, some try to implement new popular features.
This creates hype, lots of market action and people get interested.


Groestl is a straight forward, simple algo change that at least gets DGB out of the scrypt quagmire and moving towards the runway. That, and a simple addition to the mission statement that clearly declares that “DGB is a cryptocurrency designed by the people and for the people and that it will be continually developed and improved upon to that end” should be more than enough to get the price up where it belongs and get that widely distributed user base hashing DGB once again.

Something innovative and forward thinking would be even better. Multi-algo,PoT... many nice options.

Still anything better than staying in scrypt any longer. Only reason all those scrypt coins used scrypt was ASIC resistance. Now it's gone.


HR
legendary
Activity: 1176
Merit: 1011
Transparency & Integrity


Well, we're witnessing another huge crypto SNAFU in realtime. Deja vú all over again.

https://darkcointalk.org/threads/fork-to-stop-masternode-payments.883/

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/anndash-dash-dashorg-first-self-funding-self-governing-crypto-currency-421615

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.6956926

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.6957043

This kind of thing can severely damage the Dev team's reputation and people's confidence in their ability to manage the coin. A botch is a botch, and this kind of failure lingers in the minds of users for a long, long time.

This is probably the main reason why I am such a staunch proponent of a KISS algo change using Groestl. It's been implemented successfully in simple PoW form, and it works. Just how hybrid mixing will go with that, I'm not sure though (I cringe at the thought of what's going to happen once DMD actually gets their PoS functioning . . . yes, that part of the DMD new algo is still not functional).

Nevertheless, this IS NOT TO SAY that we should sit on our hands out of fear of making a mistake. That will lead to ruin as well in my opinion. Something must be urgently done to get the user base back on DGB, and in my view an algo change is the way to do that. Groestl even offers CPU miners the opportunity to get back in the game! And if anyone doubts the potential user base that would come with CPU miners due to their very low mining capacity, take a look at the DOGE user base. I've said before that it's a DOGE eat DOGE world, and, well, if they don't take care of their community, why shouldn't we offer them a place in the sun? What's wrong with directly competing for 'customers'? Groestl represents a 45% reduction in electricity costs and an algo that's meant to serve the masses, and it's a simple implementation with extremely low risk. I think it should be done ASAP . . . hopefully before DOGE does it.  Wink

Groestl offers an easy immediate response
with very low risk of encountering unwanted issues.

Everything else can wait and be developed in time without hurry. What's the hurry with a PoS implementation? What's the hurry to unnecessarily complicate things? It's the key component of a cryptocurrency that needs to be defended now: its secure and solid STORAGE OF WEALTH characteristic! Keep It Simple Stupid, Just Do It, and Rock On.

Everything else should be duly assigned to future development that's released when ready. There's nothing that says that future improvements should not be made by taking a stop-gap decision now, nothing at all – in fact, that would be part of the published mission statement.

Who knows how high we can eventually fly, but if we don't do an initial take-off sometime soon, we'll never get off the ground.

Groestl is a straight forward, simple algo change that at least gets DGB out of the scrypt quagmire and moving towards the runway. That, and a simple addition to the mission statement that clearly declares that “DGB is a cryptocurrency designed by the people and for the people and that it will be continually developed and improved upon to that end” should be more than enough to get the price up where it belongs and get that widely distributed user base hashing DGB once again.


sr. member
Activity: 434
Merit: 250
Are we really at 70 satoshis? WTF is up with people praising shitcoins and giving them fake value instread of supporting DGB?
legendary
Activity: 1106
Merit: 1000
The future is bright with DigiByte.
This is a very interesting debate, however the biggest concern is how alt coin prices will hold up if bitcoin goes to $2000, if Digibyte holds it's current value then it doesn't need to increase in price as you've already made 4 times your fiat value due to the bitcoin price increase, however the question is will people part with there bitcoins at $2000?

IMO bitcoin prices will need to go to $5000 in order for the deserved altcoins to have a future as there just isn't enough btc to go around to support every coin trying to make it.

Who the hell buys DGB with fiat? Stop telling stories. If bitcoin does a 4x and DGB stays the same price in BTC then most investors will not be happy to say the least.

As long as DigiByte price stays similar (not 4 times less), then it is not a problem for the short term. Lets say you have 1m DGB worth 0.4 BTC, then it will still stays the same, only matter in fiat, dollar price. BTC may increase in dollars but may not affect DGB or other alt coins unless people wants to quickly cash out for BTC, which is a huge DUMP !
hero member
Activity: 840
Merit: 500
Twitter: @FedKassad
This is a very interesting debate, however the biggest concern is how alt coin prices will hold up if bitcoin goes to $2000, if Digibyte holds it's current value then it doesn't need to increase in price as you've already made 4 times your fiat value due to the bitcoin price increase, however the question is will people part with there bitcoins at $2000?

IMO bitcoin prices will need to go to $5000 in order for the deserved altcoins to have a future as there just isn't enough btc to go around to support every coin trying to make it.

Who the hell buys DGB with fiat? Stop telling stories. If bitcoin does a 4x and DGB stays the same price in BTC then most investors will not be happy to say the least.
legendary
Activity: 988
Merit: 1000
This is a very interesting debate, however the biggest concern is how alt coin prices will hold up if bitcoin goes to $2000, if Digibyte holds it's current value then it doesn't need to increase in price as you've already made 4 times your fiat value due to the bitcoin price increase, however the question is will people part with there bitcoins at $2000?

IMO bitcoin prices will need to go to $5000 in order for the deserved altcoins to have a future as there just isn't enough btc to go around to support every coin trying to make it.
newbie
Activity: 48
Merit: 0
I hereby announce that I have further increased my position in digibyte. Low risk - potentially high reward.

Hope your position is right
Because I also is such
What a beautiful silver COINS
 Smiley
legendary
Activity: 1062
Merit: 1003
this is how I am building my DGB wallet. Mining directly produces a lot lower result.

On the point as to what coins needs to stand out from the crowd it is simply a POS ( point of sale) implementation

There needs to be a merchant wallet that plugs into your existing website so you can start taking payment in a coin and it can do a direct translation to the local currency. It should also give you the ability to display all your products in that coin.
If there was a python, dotnet etc library you could use for your website that had all this functionality  in it with DGB there as a default then we would see early adoption in all merchant services.

this.

except unfortunately with trade so low only a merchant with small transactions could implement at this stage say up to $200 or $300 or so
The real trouble here is capturing a large enough number of current users to get things moving. Simply putting DGB on a regular site, people will just go "huh?" and pay in fiat on their card instead.  In the days of GPU mining there were accessory shops selling risers, used GPUs etc, these things are ideally priced to encourage the use of DGB. With ASICs coming there simply aren't enough DGB avail to pay for a unit at a sensible price relative to the market price. And in the absence of mining gear, what do we all want in common?  Any ideas?

There is the idea for a browser plugin that you can use on a site like amazon and it will change your crypto to fiat for amazon purchases. So you have a middle man so to speak that gives you access to whatever coin you have.

how does that work?  the people/company with the browser plugin hold the currency instead of selling it straightaway to make up for the cash?
full member
Activity: 186
Merit: 100
this is how I am building my DGB wallet. Mining directly produces a lot lower result.

On the point as to what coins needs to stand out from the crowd it is simply a POS ( point of sale) implementation

There needs to be a merchant wallet that plugs into your existing website so you can start taking payment in a coin and it can do a direct translation to the local currency. It should also give you the ability to display all your products in that coin.
If there was a python, dotnet etc library you could use for your website that had all this functionality  in it with DGB there as a default then we would see early adoption in all merchant services.

this.

except unfortunately with trade so low only a merchant with small transactions could implement at this stage say up to $200 or $300 or so
The real trouble here is capturing a large enough number of current users to get things moving. Simply putting DGB on a regular site, people will just go "huh?" and pay in fiat on their card instead.  In the days of GPU mining there were accessory shops selling risers, used GPUs etc, these things are ideally priced to encourage the use of DGB. With ASICs coming there simply aren't enough DGB avail to pay for a unit at a sensible price relative to the market price. And in the absence of mining gear, what do we all want in common?  Any ideas?

There is the idea for a browser plugin that you can use on a site like amazon and it will change your crypto to fiat for amazon purchases. So you have a middle man so to speak that gives you access to whatever coin you have.
legendary
Activity: 1062
Merit: 1003
this is how I am building my DGB wallet. Mining directly produces a lot lower result.

On the point as to what coins needs to stand out from the crowd it is simply a POS ( point of sale) implementation

There needs to be a merchant wallet that plugs into your existing website so you can start taking payment in a coin and it can do a direct translation to the local currency. It should also give you the ability to display all your products in that coin.
If there was a python, dotnet etc library you could use for your website that had all this functionality  in it with DGB there as a default then we would see early adoption in all merchant services.

this.

except unfortunately with trade so low only a merchant with small transactions could implement at this stage say up to $200 or $300 or so
The real trouble here is capturing a large enough number of current users to get things moving. Simply putting DGB on a regular site, people will just go "huh?" and pay in fiat on their card instead.  In the days of GPU mining there were accessory shops selling risers, used GPUs etc, these things are ideally priced to encourage the use of DGB. With ASICs coming there simply aren't enough DGB avail to pay for a unit at a sensible price relative to the market price. And in the absence of mining gear, what do we all want in common?  Any ideas?
full member
Activity: 186
Merit: 100


http://www.fluttercoin.us/fluttercoin/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Proof-of-Transaction.pdf

http://www.fluttercoin.us/fltbeta2/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/proof-of-transaction-v2-r.pdf



Also, I'm surprised I haven't seen this anywhere, but, since first hand knowledge is always the best, I thought I'd better give X11 a test run (no I still hadn't), what with Darkcoin heading up the profitability list and all, and the energy savings are exactly the same as with GroestlShocked


BTW, the fact that daily mining proceeds from select Scrypt-N, Groestl or X11 coins will buy you 3-4 times the DGB that you could mine if you were mining DGB sends a very loud signal . . . I think anyway.  Undecided  That could be a big reason why the network hashrate is so low - lots of folks mining other coins and then buying DGB on the open market.




this is how I am building my DGB wallet. Mining directly produces a lot lower result.

On the point as to what coins needs to stand out from the crowd it is simply a POS ( point of sale) implementation

There needs to be a merchant wallet that plugs into your existing website so you can start taking payment in a coin and it can do a direct translation to the local currency. It should also give you the ability to display all your products in that coin.
If there was a python, dotnet etc library you could use for your website that had all this functionality  in it with DGB there as a default then we would see early adoption in all merchant services.

HR
legendary
Activity: 1176
Merit: 1011
Transparency & Integrity


http://www.fluttercoin.us/fluttercoin/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Proof-of-Transaction.pdf

http://www.fluttercoin.us/fltbeta2/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/proof-of-transaction-v2-r.pdf



Also, I'm surprised I haven't seen this anywhere, but, since first hand knowledge is always the best, I thought I'd better give X11 a test run (no I still hadn't), what with Darkcoin heading up the profitability list and all, and the energy savings are exactly the same as with Groestl.  Shocked


BTW, the fact that daily mining proceeds from select Scrypt-N, Groestl or X11 coins will buy you 3-4 times the DGB that you could mine if you were mining DGB sends a very loud signal . . . I think anyway.  Undecided  That could be a big reason why the network hashrate is so low - lots of folks mining other coins and then buying DGB on the open market.

Add: That inexplicable difference in mining proceeds and DGB purchasing power could also be attributable to a general sympathy movement lower in price cause by a general exodus from scrypt as well. (Most likely a combination of scrypt exodus with gaining popularity in ASIC resistant coins though - two worlds meeting halfway as it were.)


newbie
Activity: 25
Merit: 0
Since we're throwing around quotes, let me add one of my own: "A problem can not be solved on the level of thinking that created (identified) it." - supposedly Einstein but really, who knows.

I'm kinda surprised that anybody interested in cryptocurrency thinks that a technology can be stopped. It can't. You can make something ASIC-resistant, but you're really only delaying the inevitable. Eventually someone will make an ASIC for your algorithm (or 11 or whatever) and probably faster than you think it will. While I have previously been quite adamant about disliking PoS-only for DigiByte, I think what Fluttercoin is doing with its PoW/PoS/PoT hybrid is stepping in the right direction. PoW keeps a coin's hashrate good but leads to technology-centralizing. PoS counteracts tech advantages with its minting vs. mining alteration but leads to asset-based centralization and discourages transactions. PoT doesn't make any sense on its own, but as a counterweight to PoW and PoS, it has value. The coin that beats the problem of ASIC centralization is, in my estimation a basic Scrypt coin (so a large community can mine with small ASICs at no cost or slight profit) with PoW/PoS/PoT/Po?/Po?/Po?/Po? where the last four are Proofs not yet invented. Don't try to fight technology with technology. Fight it with economics.

PoT makes perfect sense. Encourages spending AND merchant adoption, since PoT works not only for the sender but also for the receiver AND secures the block-chain. I have both FLT and DGB in my shortlist of potential 200-500k cap coins to go to 2mil-4mil cap in the near future.

I like PoT since PoT is one of the great innovations that benefits each parties.
sr. member
Activity: 336
Merit: 250
Since we're throwing around quotes, let me add one of my own: "A problem can not be solved on the level of thinking that created (identified) it." - supposedly Einstein but really, who knows.

I'm kinda surprised that anybody interested in cryptocurrency thinks that a technology can be stopped. It can't. You can make something ASIC-resistant, but you're really only delaying the inevitable. Eventually someone will make an ASIC for your algorithm (or 11 or whatever) and probably faster than you think it will. While I have previously been quite adamant about disliking PoS-only for DigiByte, I think what Fluttercoin is doing with its PoW/PoS/PoT hybrid is stepping in the right direction. PoW keeps a coin's hashrate good but leads to technology-centralizing. PoS counteracts tech advantages with its minting vs. mining alteration but leads to asset-based centralization and discourages transactions. PoT doesn't make any sense on its own, but as a counterweight to PoW and PoS, it has value. The coin that beats the problem of ASIC centralization is, in my estimation a basic Scrypt coin (so a large community can mine with small ASICs at no cost or slight profit) with PoW/PoS/PoT/Po?/Po?/Po?/Po? where the last four are Proofs not yet invented. Don't try to fight technology with technology. Fight it with economics.

PoT makes perfect sense. Encourages spending AND merchant adoption, since PoT works not only for the sender but also for the receiver AND secures the block-chain. I have both FLT and DGB in my shortlist of potential 200-500k cap coins to go to 2mil-4mil cap in the near future.
member
Activity: 75
Merit: 10
Since we're throwing around quotes, let me add one of my own: "A problem can not be solved on the level of thinking that created (identified) it." - supposedly Einstein but really, who knows.

I'm kinda surprised that anybody interested in cryptocurrency thinks that a technology can be stopped. It can't. You can make something ASIC-resistant, but you're really only delaying the inevitable. Eventually someone will make an ASIC for your algorithm (or 11 or whatever) and probably faster than you think it will. While I have previously been quite adamant about disliking PoS-only for DigiByte, I think what Fluttercoin is doing with its PoW/PoS/PoT hybrid is stepping in the right direction. PoW keeps a coin's hashrate good but leads to technology-centralizing. PoS counteracts tech advantages with its minting vs. mining alteration but leads to asset-based centralization and discourages transactions. PoT doesn't make any sense on its own, but as a counterweight to PoW and PoS, it has value. The coin that beats the problem of ASIC centralization is, in my estimation a basic Scrypt coin (so a large community can mine with small ASICs at no cost or slight profit) with PoW/PoS/PoT/Po?/Po?/Po?/Po? where the last four are Proofs not yet invented. Don't try to fight technology with technology. Fight it with economics.
HR
legendary
Activity: 1176
Merit: 1011
Transparency & Integrity


Addressing The ASIC Menace (and similar menaces)


  • Merriam-Webster defines competition in business as "the effort of two or more parties acting independently to secure the business of a third party by offering the most favorable terms". It was described by Adam Smith in The Wealth of Nations (1776) and later economists as allocating productive resources to their most highly-valued uses and encouraging efficiency. Later microeconomic theory distinguished between perfect competition and imperfect competition, concluding that no system of resource allocation is more efficient than perfect competition. Competition, according to the theory, causes commercial firms to develop new products, services and technologies, which would give consumers greater selection and better products. The greater selection typically causes lower prices for the products, compared to what the price would be if there was no competition (monopoly) or little competition (oligopoly).

We all know that competition generally leads to better and less costly products vis-a-vi monopolistic or oligopolistic paradigms, but what I want to bring to the fore here is a relatively new concept being taught in business and economic schools worldwide in recent decades that goes one step further:

the mere threat of competition is as good as competition itself.

Here's a PDF from a University of Arizona paper (examining the “threat of entry” for broadband providers) that I've drummed up if you're interested in a technical example: http://econ.arizona.edu/downloads/working_papers/Econ-WP-07-18.pdf


What in the world does this have to do with DGB and the current dilemma we are facing?

The concept holds true in other areas of life as well. In this case, we would formulate the theory by saying that “the mere threat of an algo change is sufficient to deter any manufacturer from even contemplating the idea of producing ASIC equipment for your particular algorithm."

Unfortunately though, once ASIC hardware capable of hashing your algorithm is already in use, this theory is rendered impotent.

That's the bad news. The good news is that this theory states that an algo change only needs to be done onceafter that the simple threat of doing it again will suffice. And when you think about it, it makes perfect sense: what manufacturer would even consider production of specialized equipment that is promised to be made obsolete on inception? After having seen the threat made good once, no manufacturer in their right mind would even give it a second thought.

The good news is that an algo change only needs to be done once, after that the clear, direct and openly stated commitment to do the same if necessary in the future will be all that's needed to keep anyone thinking about an ASIC device for your coin from contemplating further!

We're only talking about a change in algorithm, nothing else, and it's a one-off event!

We're not talking about developing anything new (which would be fine for the future, the implementation of something even more energy efficient, for example, but it's not necessary to curb the present threat) since the algo is already out there. It's really simply an “off the shelf” choice.

Scrypt-N would get the job done. So would Keccak or X11 to name a couple of other possibilities.

But why choose any of those options when you've got a proven release of an algo
that uses 45% less energy than any of the others while generating the same mining output?


With the Groestl algorithm for Proof-Of-Work you get a double bang for your buck!

  • The Groestl algorithm is possibly the single most GPU-efficient algorithm implemented in any cryptocoin on the market. A comparison between many different algorithms shows that it has the lowest power consumption, heat, and noise of the array of newer ones being implemented in cryptocoins.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groestl
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gr%C3%B8stl

It's being successfully implemented, and even comes in two flavors now: sha256d or sha256 (single pass) for the transaction hashes.

In my very humble opinion, Groestl is the immediate solution that would not only give DGB a permanent ASIC-proof reputation (in combination with the threat to do the same in the future if necessary), but it would also reward all DGB miners with an electricity bill that is almost half of what their previous scrypt mining bills were!

This is win-win if I have ever seen it.

And if some crazy manufacturer wants to call our bluff, well, we'd just have to say, go ahead, call our bluff and ask them: “Are you feeling lucky, punk?”

----------------------------------------o----------------------------------------

If some of you are wondering who I am and what I'm doing coming off so strong as a relative newbie here on the DGB thread, I would just say that I would have you think of me as just another one of you: just another “shareholder” with sizable holdings unapologetically and unabashedly campaigning with the best data I have available and the best rationale I am capable of producing for what I think is best for DGB. Nothing more, nothing less, and I invite everyone with the desire to do so, and similarly good data and thought out arguments (regardless of whether they are in agreement with mine or not), to do the same.

And with that I conclude this formal, three part proposal.


In order to keep this thread as clean [and mean] as possible, help to eliminate clutter by NOT quoting this entire post when responding. If you link to it by quoting only the title, or the particular comment you wish to respond to, that should suffice, and you'll be helping the rest of us to more quickly see and read your own contributions and comments on the subject as well!

hero member
Activity: 786
Merit: 1000
Algo change won't do shit. People investing in asics and pointing them to dgb, will be something good for the coin.
member
Activity: 61
Merit: 10
I agree the most important now is an algochange. without that dgb is doomed to fail. and i think that you cant dance on too many weddings. naut, digishield for others, exchanges etc will not bring this coin any further. i lost trust a bit. you developers work hard for all these other projects and search for investors. but you forget the core of it all. the community, miners and small investors that carry this coin from the beginning. they are your basis and only on their wedding you should dance.

i gonna switch my few millions to the raising BTC now. i see the numbers fall day by day and might come back to dgb once it hit the 0.00000020 again. i wont wait to june just to hear you annonce some exchange and see my small money melt to half.

im out dgb for now. sorry but im disappointed.
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