Topic: Does God judge the nations? - page 3. (Read 4029 times)
If one goes by the Bible, in many passages it is clear that God can do no moral evil. So, when it comes to something we do not like, one either rejects the message of the Bible, or accepts it. But to say the Bible is true, and thus God a murderer (as suggested by one in this thread) is foolish. That is just abstaining from logic, and ignoreing context.
Some interesting words in Jeremiah where God defines what He would do as evil. Maybe people get caught up in thinking everything God does is good, instead working toward a good
Then the word of the LORD came to me, saying, 6O house of Israel, cannot I do with you as this potter? said the LORD. Behold, as the clay is in the potter's hand, so are you in my hand, O house of Israel. 7At what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to pluck up, and to pull down, and to destroy it; 8If that nation, against whom I have pronounced, turn from their evil, I will repent of the evil that I thought to do to them.
Evil is used in two different ways even by us today. A family loses their house in a lighting storm fire, someone may bewail that befell the family. But, they are not using it in the same way as a family losing their house because of arson.Then the word of the LORD came to me, saying, 6O house of Israel, cannot I do with you as this potter? said the LORD. Behold, as the clay is in the potter's hand, so are you in my hand, O house of Israel. 7At what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to pluck up, and to pull down, and to destroy it; 8If that nation, against whom I have pronounced, turn from their evil, I will repent of the evil that I thought to do to them.
What has been under discussion is moral evil, rather than simply a calamity, judgement or such (as I believe you are referring to).
Check out Ezekiel 28:11-19, Ezekiel is talking to the king of Tyre, but he is really talking to Satan. When you put this together with all the other things that the Bible says about Satan, we see that Satan was trying to take over control, wrest it from God.
Now, for Satan to be as good (capable) as God, he had to create something. But there was nothing left to create, because God had already created everything. There was only ONE thing left that Satan could create that God had not created. That thing was destruction. This is why Satan is called "Destroyer" in the Revelation, in both Greek and Hebrew - Apollyon and Abaddon.
The point is, the only way God could overcome Satan is that He had to take control of "destruction," taking it away from Satan. This is the thing God has done, through Jesus. God doesn't like the idea of destruction. But He is using it better than its creator, Satan.
Ultimately, God will use it to destroy Satan. Then He will use it to destroy all the wickedness that Satan caused. All those, both people and angels, who follow Satan and his ideals will be destroyed by God, as well. Finally, God will use destruction to destroy itself, and there won't be any destruction any longer. This will come about when the New Heavens and New Earth spoken about in the Revelation, finally come into being, after the final judgment.
Some interesting words in Jeremiah where God defines what He would do as evil. Maybe people get caught up in thinking everything God does is good, instead working toward a good
Then the word of the LORD came to me, saying, 6O house of Israel, cannot I do with you as this potter? said the LORD. Behold, as the clay is in the potter's hand, so are you in my hand, O house of Israel. 7At what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to pluck up, and to pull down, and to destroy it; 8If that nation, against whom I have pronounced, turn from their evil, I will repent of the evil that I thought to do to them.
Evil is used in two different ways even by us today. A family loses their house in a lighting storm fire, someone may bewail that befell the family. But, they are not using it in the same way as a family losing their house because of arson.Then the word of the LORD came to me, saying, 6O house of Israel, cannot I do with you as this potter? said the LORD. Behold, as the clay is in the potter's hand, so are you in my hand, O house of Israel. 7At what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to pluck up, and to pull down, and to destroy it; 8If that nation, against whom I have pronounced, turn from their evil, I will repent of the evil that I thought to do to them.
What has been under discussion is moral evil, rather than simply a calamity, judgement or such (as I believe you are referring to).
Some interesting words in Jeremiah where God defines what He would do as evil. Maybe people get caught up in thinking everything God does is good, instead working toward a good
Then the word of the LORD came to me, saying, 6O house of Israel, cannot I do with you as this potter? said the LORD. Behold, as the clay is in the potter's hand, so are you in my hand, O house of Israel. 7At what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to pluck up, and to pull down, and to destroy it; 8If that nation, against whom I have pronounced, turn from their evil, I will repent of the evil that I thought to do to them.
Then the word of the LORD came to me, saying, 6O house of Israel, cannot I do with you as this potter? said the LORD. Behold, as the clay is in the potter's hand, so are you in my hand, O house of Israel. 7At what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to pluck up, and to pull down, and to destroy it; 8If that nation, against whom I have pronounced, turn from their evil, I will repent of the evil that I thought to do to them.
Actually, the title just asks 'Does God judge the nations' - not did he long ago.
And, as far as the breakdown of the family, sure, what I would have in mind is what God intended. And everyone has morals, the question is - how do they square with the Creator (which would be what?).
I did mention Romans 1, which is the NT. And there are other verses in the NT regarding God's judgement on the nations. Revelation is a whole book on the subject, though reserved for a time in the future.
I think we covered this territory and i don't see anything in Romans 1 to indicate what your saying............And, as far as the breakdown of the family, sure, what I would have in mind is what God intended. And everyone has morals, the question is - how do they square with the Creator (which would be what?).
I did mention Romans 1, which is the NT. And there are other verses in the NT regarding God's judgement on the nations. Revelation is a whole book on the subject, though reserved for a time in the future.
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hinder the truth in unrighteousness;
19 because that which is known of God is manifest in them; for God manifested it unto them.
20 For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, [even] his everlasting power and divinity; that they may be without excuse
Actually, the title just asks 'Does God judge the nations' - not did he long ago.
And, as far as the breakdown of the family, sure, what I would have in mind is what God intended. And everyone has morals, the question is - how do they square with the Creator (which would be what?).
I did mention Romans 1, which is the NT. And there are other verses in the NT regarding God's judgement on the nations. Revelation is a whole book on the subject, though reserved for a time in the future.
I think we covered this territory and i don't see anything in Romans 1 to indicate what your saying............And, as far as the breakdown of the family, sure, what I would have in mind is what God intended. And everyone has morals, the question is - how do they square with the Creator (which would be what?).
I did mention Romans 1, which is the NT. And there are other verses in the NT regarding God's judgement on the nations. Revelation is a whole book on the subject, though reserved for a time in the future.
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hinder the truth in unrighteousness;
19 because that which is known of God is manifest in them; for God manifested it unto them.
20 For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, [even] his everlasting power and divinity; that they may be without excuse
If this is indeed an act of the Creator, and since the Creator is the source of all Goodness - it cannot be evil.
What fascinates me is how you dodge questions, and ignore context. Perhaps you are feeling awkward also by your unintentional confession that humans are more than merely animals?
If this is indeed an act of the Creator, and since the Creator is the source of all Goodness - it cannot be evil.
Actually, the title just asks 'Does God judge the nations' - not did he long ago.
And, as far as the breakdown of the family, sure, what I would have in mind is what God intended. And everyone has morals, the question is - how do they square with the Creator (which would be what?).
I did mention Romans 1, which is the NT. And there are other verses in the NT regarding God's judgement on the nations. Revelation is a whole book on the subject, though reserved for a time in the future.
I think we covered this territory and i don't see anything in Romans 1 to indicate what your saying............And, as far as the breakdown of the family, sure, what I would have in mind is what God intended. And everyone has morals, the question is - how do they square with the Creator (which would be what?).
I did mention Romans 1, which is the NT. And there are other verses in the NT regarding God's judgement on the nations. Revelation is a whole book on the subject, though reserved for a time in the future.
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hinder the truth in unrighteousness;
19 because that which is known of God is manifest in them; for God manifested it unto them.
20 For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, [even] his everlasting power and divinity; that they may be without excuse
Your entire childish argument revolves around everyone believing ..... "If The Bible is True..."
You refuse to acknowledge that The Bible has been proved to be nothing but a sack of shit.
Only a mentally and emotionally like you continues debate using The Bible as if it were relevent.
You can not use one fairy tales to prove another fairy tale real.
I know that you,refuse to understand that fact, but you are the only person in the room who is so utterly stupid to refuse to accept it.
The philosophical writings of the Bible fit people better than any other writings. There is a far larger variety of philosophy in the Bible than anywhere else. So far, everything in the Bible has proven to be true.
If you consider the Bible to be "nothing but a sack of shit," then you are expressing that people are "nothing but a sack of shit." This is true about people. The Bible is different, because the whole idea of the Bible is to give people a way out of being shitty, through salvation by Jesus.
People reject God not nations. Nations today are just different forms of govt, i can't seem to get that through to you. Jesus said nation will rise up against nation not naming them or saying one is a chosen nation
You speak something dangerous here. Why and How? You might love God and other people with all your heart. But put it into practice by not paying your income taxes any longer. The bankers are using your tax money to destroy peoples and nations around the world. And it is partially your fault 'cause you help support the bankers through your income taxes.
If God destroys the America for their vicious cruelty expressed through their support of the bankers, you won't survive either.
In the event you don't fall into the above, American classification, check out and be sure that whoever you are doesn't fit some nation.
Palestine is having problems as a nation, not as individuals.
Believing in the Buddha has really led those monks down the path of evil hasnt it? Seriously that may have been the dumbest thing you have ever said. And in the long litany of that has come off your keyboard there is some stiff competition for the award. I suppose you will be the first person to volunteer to put those evil bastards to death.
The evil of believing in the Buddha isn't in the fact of the good living that they proclaim. It is in the fact that they think that anybody can ever be good enough to live forever one way or another.
Eternal life isn't something mystical. Rather, it is something ultra-scientific. It is logical. For example, if you could take all the pollution out of our lives, and add only wholesome foods, destroy the inherent degradations in our cells, and think only pure thoughts, we could live for a long time - maybe hundreds of years.
The problem is, we don't know what it is like to do this. Buddhism goes in that direction somewhat. The problem with Buddhism is that it doesn't, can't, go far enough, just like Hinduism.
While Christianity doesn't go as far as Buddhism and Hinduism in the actual living, practical operations, Christianity goes all the way in preparing people for eternal life.
God is ultimately going to destroy this universe because of the evil that has come about in it; God can't stand even the tiniest bit of evil. He is offering us a method in faith in Jesus to gain eternal life in the New Universe He is creating... a Universe that will have no evil in it, no flaws, no capability for potential mistakes, yet freedom, love, and goodness for all who live therein.
You are free to make your choice. God might entice you, He might call to you, He slap you around a little, all so that you wake up and join with Him. He is the only way to eternal life. He is doing it for your own good. No matter what you think, history makes it obvious that everyone dies in this life. At least giver yourself a chance. Turn to God.
If context matters so much, why have you not yet shared the context that can make killing others for their beliefs acceptable? This seems to be the thrust of your argument...so fucking make it already!!! I anxiously await a detailed description of the exact context that makes it OK to kill people for their beliefs.
Do you understand the concept of family? Look at the mafia, for example.
If you kill off the parents because God instructs you to, because they won't accept God, you better be ready to completely brainwash the children into not accepting their parents. If you don't, they will rise up someday, and revert to their parents' faulty beliefs, and kill off you and your whole family. The context is God. And additional context is self-defense.
Believing in the Buddha has really led those monks down the path of evil hasnt it? Seriously that may have been the dumbest thing you have ever said. And in the long litany of that has come off your keyboard there is some stiff competition for the award. I suppose you will be the first person to volunteer to put those evil bastards to death.
The evil of believing in the Buddha isn't in the fact of the good living that they proclaim. It is in the fact that they think that anybody can ever be good enough to live forever one way or another.
Eternal life isn't something mystical. Rather, it is something ultra-scientific. It is logical. For example, if you could take all the pollution out of our lives, and add only wholesome foods, destroy the inherent degradations in our cells, and think only pure thoughts, we could live for a long time - maybe hundreds of years.
The problem is, we don't know what it is like to do this. Buddhism goes in that direction somewhat. The problem with Buddhism is that it doesn't, can't, go far enough, just like Hinduism.
While Christianity doesn't go as far as Buddhism and Hinduism in the actual living, practical operations, Christianity goes all the way in preparing people for eternal life.
God is ultimately going to destroy this universe because of the evil that has come about in it; God can't stand even the tiniest bit of evil. He is offering us a method in faith in Jesus to gain eternal life in the New Universe He is creating... a Universe that will have no evil in it, no flaws, no capability for potential mistakes, yet freedom, love, and goodness for all who live therein.
You are free to make your choice. God might entice you, He might call to you, He slap you around a little, all so that you wake up and join with Him. He is the only way to eternal life. He is doing it for your own good. No matter what you think, history makes it obvious that everyone dies in this life. At least giver yourself a chance. Turn to God.
If context matters so much, why have you not yet shared the context that can make killing others for their beliefs acceptable? This seems to be the thrust of your argument...so fucking make it already!!! I anxiously await a detailed description of the exact context that makes it OK to kill people for their beliefs.
Are you saying humans are more than just another type of animal? Your responses certainly demonstrate that you do think so, regardless of your 'offical position'.
You refuse to acknowledge that The Bible has been proved to be nothing but a sack of shit.
Only a mentally and emotionally like you continues debate using The Bible as if it were relevent.
You can not use one fairy tales to prove another fairy tale real.
I know that you,refuse to understand that fact, but you are the only person in the room who is so utterly stupid to refuse to accept it.
More accurately it's called, genocide.In the case of the Israelites murdering non-Israelites, some may prefer the term, "Ethnic Cleansing".
Actually, if you read the account, it was not for having a 'different faith'.But, lets go with your error and again ask - what determines that something is murder? Some folks think aborting babies is murder - not all. Some folk think the government executing murderers or rapists is murder - other folkd do not.
What makes your interpretation of murder the correct one?
The absolute truth is found in God. Love God above all things, and your neighbor as yourself. Sometimes loving God above all things might include destroying other people. Sometimes destroying them might be the best thing you can do for them. but be darn sure that you KNOW that it is the best.
Actually, the title just asks 'Does God judge the nations' - not did he long ago.
And, as far as the breakdown of the family, sure, what I would have in mind is what God intended. And everyone has morals, the question is - how do they square with the Creator (which would be what?).
I did mention Romans 1, which is the NT. And there are other verses in the NT regarding God's judgement on the nations. Revelation is a whole book on the subject, though reserved for a time in the future.
I think we covered this territory and i don't see anything in Romans 1 to indicate what your saying............And, as far as the breakdown of the family, sure, what I would have in mind is what God intended. And everyone has morals, the question is - how do they square with the Creator (which would be what?).
I did mention Romans 1, which is the NT. And there are other verses in the NT regarding God's judgement on the nations. Revelation is a whole book on the subject, though reserved for a time in the future.
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hinder the truth in unrighteousness;
19 because that which is known of God is manifest in them; for God manifested it unto them.
20 For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, [even] his everlasting power and divinity; that they may be without excuse
More accurately it's called, genocide.In the case of the Israelites murdering non-Israelites, some may prefer the term, "Ethnic Cleansing".
Actually, if you read the account, it was not for having a 'different faith'.But, lets go with your error and again ask - what determines that something is murder? Some folks think aborting babies is murder - not all. Some folk think the government executing murderers or rapists is murder - other folkd do not.
What makes your interpretation of murder the correct one?
Yet, the nations that God directed Moses to destroy, were peopled by people who were turning further and further from God, from the truth of life. So, the destruction was a good thing for them. It only hastened the place where they were going anyway, and gave them peace sooner.
Believing in the Buddha has really led those monks down the path of evil hasnt it? Seriously that may have been the dumbest thing you have ever said. And in the long litany of that has come off your keyboard there is some stiff competition for the award. I suppose you will be the first person to volunteer to put those evil bastards to death.
The evil of believing in the Buddha isn't in the fact of the good living that they proclaim. It is in the fact that they think that anybody can ever be good enough to live forever one way or another.
Eternal life isn't something mystical. Rather, it is something ultra-scientific. It is logical. For example, if you could take all the pollution out of our lives, and add only wholesome foods, destroy the inherent degradations in our cells, and think only pure thoughts, we could live for a long time - maybe hundreds of years.
The problem is, we don't know what it is like to do this. Buddhism goes in that direction somewhat. The problem with Buddhism is that it doesn't, can't, go far enough, just like Hinduism.
While Christianity doesn't go as far as Buddhism and Hinduism in the actual living, practical operations, Christianity goes all the way in preparing people for eternal life.
God is ultimately going to destroy this universe because of the evil that has come about in it; God can't stand even the tiniest bit of evil. He is offering us a method in faith in Jesus to gain eternal life in the New Universe He is creating... a Universe that will have no evil in it, no flaws, no capability for potential mistakes, yet freedom, love, and goodness for all who live therein.
You are free to make your choice. God might entice you, He might call to you, He slap you around a little, all so that you wake up and join with Him. He is the only way to eternal life. He is doing it for your own good. No matter what you think, history makes it obvious that everyone dies in this life. At least giver yourself a chance. Turn to God.
If context matters so much, why have you not yet shared the context that can make killing others for their beliefs acceptable? This seems to be the thrust of your argument...so fucking make it already!!! I anxiously await a detailed description of the exact context that makes it OK to kill people for their beliefs.
Are you saying humans are more than just another type of animal? Your responses certainly demonstrate that you do think so, regardless of your 'offical position'.
God does not give a shit about nations or religion for that matter. Nations and religion are man made to separate humanity, and to incite war against each other.
Humans are weird creatures.
Humans are weird creatures.
God cares about all living things on the whole planet. But people wouldn't be people if they didn't have free will. And if they use their free will to harm others, how can God stop it and still let them have free will?
Things will be different in the New Heaven and earth. The structure will be different, so that there can be free will, and yet nobody willing to harm another.
Why is everyone dancing around the core issue....?
The Bible is not historically accurate. In other words, for the sake of discussion, The Bible is a lie. THe events in the Bible never happened. It is a work of fiction.
The Bible is not historically accurate. In other words, for the sake of discussion, The Bible is a lie. THe events in the Bible never happened. It is a work of fiction.
The specific situation we are discussigin is where a person has a different faith and is put to death, killed, murdered, terminated, etc. for simply having that different faith (as god commanded Moses apparantly). You can call it what you like but that is murder.
I'm flabbergasted that in this time and age, some people are killing other people because they believe in a different fantasy-person than themselves. When I read such news, I feel that I'm looking into the dark ages of the history of some very primitive planet.
There is so much to be said about this. I do think lack of education has a very strong part of this. I find it hard to believe that a university educated person would still hold beliefs that a certain religion is superior to others, and thus the others needs to be killed. But on the other hand, I might be wrong, and some of those university educated people are even more dangerous as they will use their knowledge to manipulate others to follow their agenda.
People are people, no matter their makeup, and most people just want to live in peace.
The bankers have a religion of gaining money. So they not only have caused almost all the wars in the world, but they also have incited many religious people to slaughter people of other religions. Everything is a religion. For bankers, it is the religion of money, and to gain/attains all the wealth they can. This is what Bitcoin is all about. To stop the bankers, and start a worldwide religion of Bitcoin.
Jump to: