Does God judge the nations? - page 6.

noviapriani

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Quote from: zolace on August 12, 2014, 10:25:30 AM

Quote from: noviapriani on August 12, 2014, 09:57:28 AM

Actually, the title just asks 'Does God judge the nations' - not did he long ago.

And, as far as the breakdown of the family, sure, what I would have in mind is what God intended. And everyone has morals, the question is - how do they square with the Creator (which would be what?).

I did mention Romans 1, which is the NT. And there are other verses in the NT regarding God's judgement on the nations. Revelation is a whole book on the subject, though reserved for a time in the future.

I think we covered this territory and i don't see anything in Romans 1 to indicate what your saying............

Well, Romans 1 does speak of God's judgment, yes? I think you are saying that you don't see the judgement as nation specific - is that what you mean?

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hinder the truth in unrighteousness;
19 because that which is known of God is manifest in them; for God manifested it unto them.
20 For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, [even] his everlasting power and divinity; that they may be without excuse

noviapriani

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Quote from: Rigon on August 12, 2014, 09:35:05 AM

Quote from: noviapriani on August 12, 2014, 09:20:46 AM

Quote from: Rigon on August 12, 2014, 09:05:32 AM

Item A: It has always been murder in any context to put someone to death for a belief. People may have thought they were correct to do it at the time but their stupidity is irrelevant to the fact it was still murder. I need not demonstrate this fact to any other human alive. I think we all agree that killing someone for a harmless fairy tale belief they were likely born into is murder....but you. Its like this...your beliefs are all wrong , but that is no good reason for me to justify killing you, right? That would be murder, correct? Its the same thing.

Item B: Noah is a fairy tale, but if God did something like it such as breaking the Bosporus peninsula 8000 years ago and flooding the Med valley (which happened and could be the folk lure responsible for this fairy tale), then he murdered people ....and surely not all of them were bad.

Noah is a fairy tale you say - are you saying that what Israel did when it destroyed the nations after crossing the Jordon is not a fairy tale?

Quote

It has always been murder in any context to put someone to death for a belief.

You are saying it has always been murder, even when folks thought they were correct to do so. You are then saying that there is a moral principle that transcends the human race, that the human race is subject to?

I am saying that putting someone to death for a harmless belief should certainly always be considered murder.

And your objection to discussing Noah and the flood is that he is a fairy tale you say - are you saying that what Israel did when it destroyed the nations after crossing the Jordon is not a fairy tale, since you did not object to discussing that?

zolace

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Quote from: noviapriani on August 12, 2014, 09:57:28 AM

Actually, the title just asks 'Does God judge the nations' - not did he long ago.

And, as far as the breakdown of the family, sure, what I would have in mind is what God intended. And everyone has morals, the question is - how do they square with the Creator (which would be what?).

I did mention Romans 1, which is the NT. And there are other verses in the NT regarding God's judgement on the nations. Revelation is a whole book on the subject, though reserved for a time in the future.

I think we covered this territory and i don't see anything in Romans 1 to indicate what your saying............

noviapriani

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And there are folks who consider abortion murder, and others who consider the death penalty murder, and others who consider the bombing of Hiroshima murder, and others who feel Bush is a murderer.

I understand your sentiment - but, you do make it sound like it is more than just your own personal view on murder.

noviapriani

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Actually, the title just asks 'Does God judge the nations' - not did he long ago.

And, as far as the breakdown of the family, sure, what I would have in mind is what God intended. And everyone has morals, the question is - how do they square with the Creator (which would be what?).

I did mention Romans 1, which is the NT. And there are other verses in the NT regarding God's judgement on the nations. Revelation is a whole book on the subject, though reserved for a time in the future.

zolace

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Quote from: noviapriani on August 12, 2014, 09:49:11 AM

The foundations of law and order have collapsed. What can the righteous do?" Psalm 11:3

When the foundations of the country are destroyed, what's going to happen? The entire country is going to collapse and there will be an implosion. The enemy is within. When the moral fiber breaks down, the family breaks down. Once the family breaks down, we don't have a country anymore. We are at the point that is very much like when the Roman Empire was beginning to disintegrate. We are at the same point in history. I never dreamed this would happen in my lifetime, but we are there. Those who are younger than I will see the destruction and fall of this society.

Then, what will have to happen will be for a great one world government to try to salvage things as the moral fiber disintegrates. It's all preparing the way for the Lord's return.

"The nations have sunk down in the pit which they have made; In the net which they hid, their own foot has been caught. The Lord has made Himself known; He has executed judgment. In the work of his own hands the wicked is snared. . . . Even all the nations who forget God. . . . Let the nations know that they are but men." Psalm 9:15-20, NASB

The title of your post asked does God judge the nations as if it were in the OT, and where your verses you point out are from. I assumed then other nations would be more in favor. I just don't see any NT evidence this is still the way. And your whole breakdown of family theory sounds like you have a particular type of family in mind, or that individuals can't love their country or have morals unless they are part of this particular family unit

noviapriani

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The foundations of law and order have collapsed. What can the righteous do?" Psalm 11:3

When the foundations of the country are destroyed, what's going to happen? The entire country is going to collapse and there will be an implosion. The enemy is within. When the moral fiber breaks down, the family breaks down. Once the family breaks down, we don't have a country anymore. We are at the point that is very much like when the Roman Empire was beginning to disintegrate. We are at the same point in history. I never dreamed this would happen in my lifetime, but we are there. Those who are younger than I will see the destruction and fall of this society.

Then, what will have to happen will be for a great one world government to try to salvage things as the moral fiber disintegrates. It's all preparing the way for the Lord's return.

"The nations have sunk down in the pit which they have made; In the net which they hid, their own foot has been caught. The Lord has made Himself known; He has executed judgment. In the work of his own hands the wicked is snared. . . . Even all the nations who forget God. . . . Let the nations know that they are but men." Psalm 9:15-20, NASB

Rigon

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Quote from: noviapriani on August 12, 2014, 09:20:46 AM

Quote from: Rigon on August 12, 2014, 09:05:32 AM

Item A: It has always been murder in any context to put someone to death for a belief. People may have thought they were correct to do it at the time but their stupidity is irrelevant to the fact it was still murder. I need not demonstrate this fact to any other human alive. I think we all agree that killing someone for a harmless fairy tale belief they were likely born into is murder....but you. Its like this...your beliefs are all wrong , but that is no good reason for me to justify killing you, right? That would be murder, correct? Its the same thing.

Item B: Noah is a fairy tale, but if God did something like it such as breaking the Bosporus peninsula 8000 years ago and flooding the Med valley (which happened and could be the folk lure responsible for this fairy tale), then he murdered people ....and surely not all of them were bad.

Noah is a fairy tale you say - are you saying that what Israel did when it destroyed the nations after crossing the Jordon is not a fairy tale?

Quote

It has always been murder in any context to put someone to death for a belief.

You are saying it has always been murder, even when folks thought they were correct to do so. You are then saying that there is a moral principle that transcends the human race, that the human race is subject to?

I am saying that putting someone to death for a harmless belief should certainly always be considered murder.

noviapriani

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Activity: 350

Merit: 250

Quote from: Rigon on August 12, 2014, 09:05:32 AM

Item A: It has always been murder in any context to put someone to death for a belief. People may have thought they were correct to do it at the time but their stupidity is irrelevant to the fact it was still murder. I need not demonstrate this fact to any other human alive. I think we all agree that killing someone for a harmless fairy tale belief they were likely born into is murder....but you. Its like this...your beliefs are all wrong , but that is no good reason for me to justify killing you, right? That would be murder, correct? Its the same thing.

Item B: Noah is a fairy tale, but if God did something like it such as breaking the Bosporus peninsula 8000 years ago and flooding the Med valley (which happened and could be the folk lure responsible for this fairy tale), then he murdered people ....and surely not all of them were bad.

Noah is a fairy tale you say - are you saying that what Israel did when it destroyed the nations after crossing the Jordon is not a fairy tale?

Quote

It has always been murder in any context to put someone to death for a belief.

You are saying it has always been murder, even when folks thought they were correct to do so. You are then saying that there is a moral principle that transcends the human race, that the human race is subject to?

Rigon

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Activity: 994

Merit: 441

Item A: It has always been murder in any context to put someone to death for a belief. People may have thought they were correct to do it at the time but their stupidity is irrelevant to the fact it was still murder. I need not demonstrate this fact to any other human alive. I think we all agree that killing someone for a harmless fairy tale belief they were likely born into is murder....but you. Its like this...your beliefs are all wrong , but that is no good reason for me to justify killing you, right? That would be murder, correct? Its the same thing.

Item B: Noah is a fairy tale, but if God did something like it such as breaking the Bosporus peninsula 8000 years ago and flooding the Med valley (which happened and could be the folk lure responsible for this fairy tale), then he murdered people ....and surely not all of them were bad.

noviapriani

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Merit: 250

Quote from: sana8410 on August 12, 2014, 08:37:37 AM

Quote from: noviapriani on August 12, 2014, 07:25:06 AM

Quote from: Nik1ab on August 12, 2014, 07:17:34 AM

Quote from: noviapriani on August 12, 2014, 07:16:26 AM

Does everyone agree about the death penalty and abortion?

Some say that doing those are murder, others do not. Please, knock off the silliness about me redefining anything as if this subject is so esoteric.

How can the state murdering people not be considered as murder?

Ok, how about this?

Are there folk who think Bush is a murderer regarding the Iraqi war? Are there folk who disagree?Are there folk who think that Hiroshima and Nagasaki was murder, and those who think not?

"If your "god" commanded you to kill someone, would you kill them?" Of course you never answered the question, but it does cause one to ponder.

The usual criteria for determining the definition of murder is understanding the difference between Right and Wrong.
You are on-record for not knowing the difference between Right and Wrong, Truth or Lies.

You have to draw a line somewhere, and basic understadning of Right and Wrong is a good place to draw the line.
You can't even man-up and define The Golden Rule!!! That should be a clue.

And that is just it - not everyone agrees with what constitutes murder. Your avoiding discussing these other examples just further underlines that.

You have yet to demonstrate why you feel this one example is absolute (even assuming your understanding is correct).

Let me ask you - given the story of Noah's flood, where God directly brings judgement - do you feel that is murder?

sana8410

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Quote from: noviapriani on August 12, 2014, 07:25:06 AM

Quote from: Nik1ab on August 12, 2014, 07:17:34 AM

Quote from: noviapriani on August 12, 2014, 07:16:26 AM

Does everyone agree about the death penalty and abortion?

Some say that doing those are murder, others do not. Please, knock off the silliness about me redefining anything as if this subject is so esoteric.

How can the state murdering people not be considered as murder?

Ok, how about this?

Are there folk who think Bush is a murderer regarding the Iraqi war? Are there folk who disagree?Are there folk who think that Hiroshima and Nagasaki was murder, and those who think not?

"If your "god" commanded you to kill someone, would you kill them?" Of course you never answered the question, but it does cause one to ponder.

The usual criteria for determining the definition of murder is understanding the difference between Right and Wrong.
You are on-record for not knowing the difference between Right and Wrong, Truth or Lies.

You have to draw a line somewhere, and basic understadning of Right and Wrong is a good place to draw the line.
You can't even man-up and define The Golden Rule!!! That should be a clue.

Rigon

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Quote from: noviapriani on August 12, 2014, 07:25:06 AM

Quote from: Nik1ab on August 12, 2014, 07:17:34 AM

Quote from: noviapriani on August 12, 2014, 07:16:26 AM

Does everyone agree about the death penalty and abortion?

Some say that doing those are murder, others do not. Please, knock off the silliness about me redefining anything as if this subject is so esoteric.

How can the state murdering people not be considered as murder?

Ok, how about this?

Are there folk who think Bush is a murderer regarding the Iraqi war? Are there folk who disagree?Are there folk who think that Hiroshima and Nagasaki was murder, and those who think not?

Agree or not, these examples are once again not remotely the same as killing women and children for the sole reason that they believe in other fairy tale gods. Perhaps you ought to start a new thread to discuss whether (and when) war, judicial death penalties for crimes, and abortion constitute murder. It might be an interesting topic. It just isnt germane to this one.

In this instance the killing of women and children for their beliefs as instructed by God to Moses in the bible is clearly murder under ANY definition and in ANY context.

BitCoinNutJob

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If god is real he doesnt follow some socially constructed book. He would likely be beyond good and evil, there are no judgements or punishments for anyone imo

Nik1ab

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Quote from: noviapriani on August 12, 2014, 07:25:06 AM

Quote from: Nik1ab on August 12, 2014, 07:17:34 AM

Quote from: noviapriani on August 12, 2014, 07:16:26 AM

Does everyone agree about the death penalty and abortion?

Some say that doing those are murder, others do not. Please, knock off the silliness about me redefining anything as if this subject is so esoteric.

How can the state murdering people not be considered as murder?

Ok, how about this?

Are there folk who think Bush is a murderer regarding the Iraqi war? Are there folk who disagree?Are there folk who think that Hiroshima and Nagasaki was murder, and those who think not?

I like that quote of a french man. I can't remember his name unfortunately.
He said "When 1 million people are wrong, then those 1 million people are wrong."

noviapriani

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Quote from: Nik1ab on August 12, 2014, 07:17:34 AM

Quote from: noviapriani on August 12, 2014, 07:16:26 AM

Does everyone agree about the death penalty and abortion?

Some say that doing those are murder, others do not. Please, knock off the silliness about me redefining anything as if this subject is so esoteric.

How can the state murdering people not be considered as murder?

Ok, how about this?

Are there folk who think Bush is a murderer regarding the Iraqi war? Are there folk who disagree?Are there folk who think that Hiroshima and Nagasaki was murder, and those who think not?

sana8410

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Quote from: noviapriani on August 12, 2014, 07:16:26 AM

Does everyone agree about the death penalty and abortion?

Some say that doing those are murder, others do not. Please, knock off the silliness about me redefining anything as if this subject is so esoteric.

No one is talking about the death penalty or abortion.I know that you will never admit that you are wrong, but that doesn't matter. You are wrong.

Nik1ab

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freedomainradio.com

Quote from: noviapriani on August 12, 2014, 07:16:26 AM

Does everyone agree about the death penalty and abortion?

Some say that doing those are murder, others do not. Please, knock off the silliness about me redefining anything as if this subject is so esoteric.

How can the state murdering people not be considered as murder?

noviapriani

sr. member

Activity: 350

Merit: 250

Does everyone agree about the death penalty and abortion?

Some say that doing those are murder, others do not. Please, knock off the silliness about me redefining anything as if this subject is so esoteric.

sana8410

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Activity: 448

Merit: 250

Quote from: noviapriani on August 12, 2014, 06:36:34 AM

Not everyone agrees on what constitutes murder - what makes your interpretation the correct one, out of curiosity?

You are the only one who is attempting to redefine murder to fit your warped agenda.Every civilized person who has not been brainwashed to believe fairy tales are real know what murder is.
The Exodus, et al account are the very definition of murder/genocide, but you are the only one who is attempting to re-write the dictionary.

Topic: Does God judge the nations? - page 6. (Read 4034 times)