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Topic: Does God judge the nations? - page 8. (Read 4034 times)

hero member
Activity: 490
Merit: 500
August 11, 2014, 12:36:33 PM
#55
But, lets go with your error and again ask - what determines that something is murder?

This has more of a pure academic cent to it.

There are edge cases where you could discuss whether something is murder or not. But in this discussion I think it's very clear. If some person is killed because he believes in a different fantasy-figure, or believes in no fantasy-figure at all, that's outright murder. If a group of such people is killed, it's genocide and a crime against humanity.
sr. member
Activity: 994
Merit: 441
August 11, 2014, 12:34:16 PM
#54
Here's whats true......your God told Moses that people who worship other gods should be put to death...aka murdered.  Awesome God.
legendary
Activity: 3066
Merit: 1147
The revolution will be monetized!
August 11, 2014, 12:33:22 PM
#53
Oh, I thought we were talking about Mithra. What god are you guys on about? There are so many.
sr. member
Activity: 350
Merit: 250
August 11, 2014, 12:29:42 PM
#52
More accurately it's called, genocide.In the case of the Israelites murdering non-Israelites, some may prefer the term, "Ethnic Cleansing".
Actually, if you read the account, it was not for having a 'different faith'.

But, lets go with your error and again ask - what determines that something is murder?  Some folks think aborting babies is murder - not all.  Some folk think the government executing murderers or rapists is murder - other folkd do not.

What makes your interpretation of murder the correct one?
True.  If the nations the Israelites allegedly murdered had converted and worshiped the Hebrew "god", the Israelites would have murdered them anyway.


Is there a point to this? After all, it's just a fairy tale.
Again, not true, if one reads the history of the Israeli nation there, be it Joshua, or before or after (Samuel).
sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250
August 11, 2014, 12:26:43 PM
#51
More accurately it's called, genocide.In the case of the Israelites murdering non-Israelites, some may prefer the term, "Ethnic Cleansing".
Actually, if you read the account, it was not for having a 'different faith'.

But, lets go with your error and again ask - what determines that something is murder?  Some folks think aborting babies is murder - not all.  Some folk think the government executing murderers or rapists is murder - other folkd do not.

What makes your interpretation of murder the correct one?
True.  If the nations the Israelites allegedly murdered had converted and worshiped the Hebrew "god", the Israelites would have murdered them anyway.


Is there a point to this? After all, it's just a fairy tale.
sr. member
Activity: 350
Merit: 250
August 11, 2014, 12:24:29 PM
#50
Killing people for believing other things has always been murder.  It will always be murder no matter what people used to think.  It is also genocide.   We are not talking about capital punishment, we are not talking abortion...all interesting topics that you might want to start another thread about.  We are talking about a biblical command to put adult human beings to death for no other reason than they worship differently.  This is murder.
We are talking about the nations  and the people destroyed, yes?

Look at the context.  You need to work on that.  There were nations with different faiths that God instructed Moses and Joshua to leave alone, for example.   What was different about the nations they met once they crossed the Jordon river?

If it was simply due to having a different faith, why were not Edom, Moab, etc, included?

And the nations who did worship other gods - what did that worship include?
sr. member
Activity: 994
Merit: 441
August 11, 2014, 12:21:09 PM
#49
Killing people for believing other things has always been murder.  It will always be murder no matter what people used to think.  It is also genocide.   We are not talking about capital punishment, we are not talking abortion...all interesting topics that you might want to start another thread about.  We are talking about a biblical command to put adult human beings to death for no other reason than they worship differently.  This is murder.
sr. member
Activity: 350
Merit: 250
August 11, 2014, 12:19:01 PM
#48
More accurately it's called, genocide.In the case of the Israelites murdering non-Israelites, some may prefer the term, "Ethnic Cleansing".
Actually, if you read the account, it was not for having a 'different faith'.

But, lets go with your error and again ask - what determines that something is murder?  Some folks think aborting babies is murder - not all.  Some folk think the government executing murderers or rapists is murder - other folkd do not.

What makes your interpretation of murder the correct one?
Believing in a different god is having a different faith.  Believing anything differently means having a different faith. It is not an error.  Deuteronomy says (God to Moses) kill people who worship other gods.  Worshiping other gods means your faith is different.  How many ways do I have to explain something so simple to you?
Ah, you are saying this is an objective truth that transcends what humans think?  Hmm, interesting.So, what is this source of absolute truth?
sr. member
Activity: 994
Merit: 441
August 11, 2014, 12:16:35 PM
#47
More accurately it's called, genocide.In the case of the Israelites murdering non-Israelites, some may prefer the term, "Ethnic Cleansing".
Actually, if you read the account, it was not for having a 'different faith'.

But, lets go with your error and again ask - what determines that something is murder?  Some folks think aborting babies is murder - not all.  Some folk think the government executing murderers or rapists is murder - other folkd do not.

What makes your interpretation of murder the correct one?
Believing in a different god is having a different faith.  Believing anything differently means having a different faith. It is not an error.  Deuteronomy says (God to Moses) kill people who worship other gods.  Worshiping other gods means your faith is different.  How many ways do I have to explain something so simple to you?
sr. member
Activity: 350
Merit: 250
August 11, 2014, 12:05:51 PM
#46
More accurately it's called, genocide.In the case of the Israelites murdering non-Israelites, some may prefer the term, "Ethnic Cleansing".
Actually, if you read the account, it was not for having a 'different faith'.

But, lets go with your error and again ask - what determines that something is murder?  Some folks think aborting babies is murder - not all.  Some folk think the government executing murderers or rapists is murder - other folkd do not.

What makes your interpretation of murder the correct one?
hero member
Activity: 490
Merit: 500
August 11, 2014, 11:53:45 AM
#45
The specific situation we are discussigin is where a person has a different faith and is put to death, killed, murdered, terminated, etc. for simply having that different faith (as god commanded Moses apparantly). You can call it what you like but that is murder.

I'm flabbergasted that in this time and age, some people are killing other people because they believe in a different fantasy-person than themselves. When I read such news, I feel that I'm looking into the dark ages of the history of some very primitive planet.

There is so much to be said about this. I do think lack of education has a very strong part of this. I find it hard to believe that a university educated person would still hold beliefs that a certain religion is superior to others, and thus the others needs to be killed. But on the other hand, I might be wrong, and some of those university educated people are even more dangerous as they will use their knowledge to manipulate others to follow their agenda.

People are people, no matter their makeup, and most people just want to live in peace.
sr. member
Activity: 994
Merit: 441
August 11, 2014, 11:48:19 AM
#44
More accurately it's called, genocide.In the case of the Israelites murdering non-Israelites, some may prefer the term, "Ethnic Cleansing".
sr. member
Activity: 994
Merit: 441
August 11, 2014, 11:45:47 AM
#43
Believing in the Buddha has really led those monks down the path of evil hasnt it?   Seriously  that may have been the dumbest thing you have ever said.  And in the long litany of  that has come off your keyboard there is some stiff competition for the  award.   I suppose you will be the first person to volunteer to put those evil bastards to death.
I suppose if one lived in your world, where reading comprehesion and integrity is optional.

By the way, still waiting for you answer here:

Are you saying that there is no criteria where one human can put another to death and it is not murder?

If there is criteria for when a person can take the life of another and it not be murder - then what is that criteria based on?
I dont really care about your irrelevent question about other instances where killing may or may not be murder.  We are talking about one specific situation....

The one specific situation we are discussigin is where a person has a different faith and is put to death, killed, murdered, terminated, etc. for simply having that different faith.   You can call it what you like but that is murder.
that is not what this topic is about, rigon.  Emotional responses have their place, but, should not be running the show.
The specific situation we are discussigin is where a person has a different faith and is put to death, killed, murdered, terminated, etc. for simply having that different faith (as god commanded Moses apparantly). You can call it what you like but that is murder.
hero member
Activity: 490
Merit: 500
August 11, 2014, 11:44:08 AM
#42
I am not trolling....and i asked myself those questions many times....but i choose to believe my religion....and as long as i don't harm others with my believe i don't see what is wrong with it.I don't judge you for saving the life of some animals and kill the others, i do the same,and probably makes me good and bad in the same time.I started this topic to see peoples opinion and to find answers to my questions.

I respect that people have religious views, although I do not share those views personally.

I never stated being religious is wrong, as in fact most religious people are good people, however it's the fanaticism I'm against, and killing in the name of a religion is wrong. I also think it's wrong when a religion governs the life or a person to such an extent that the person lives a poorer life (fear of damnation if doing anything wrong).
sr. member
Activity: 350
Merit: 250
August 11, 2014, 11:36:01 AM
#41
Believing in the Buddha has really led those monks down the path of evil hasnt it?   Seriously  that may have been the dumbest thing you have ever said.  And in the long litany of  that has come off your keyboard there is some stiff competition for the  award.   I suppose you will be the first person to volunteer to put those evil bastards to death.
I suppose if one lived in your world, where reading comprehesion and integrity is optional.

By the way, still waiting for you answer here:

Are you saying that there is no criteria where one human can put another to death and it is not murder?

If there is criteria for when a person can take the life of another and it not be murder - then what is that criteria based on?
I dont really care about your irrelevent question about other instances where killing may or may not be murder.  We are talking about one specific situation....

The one specific situation we are discussigin is where a person has a different faith and is put to death, killed, murdered, terminated, etc. for simply having that different faith.   You can call it what you like but that is murder.
that is not what this topic is about, rigon.  Emotional responses have their place, but, should not be running the show.
sr. member
Activity: 994
Merit: 441
August 11, 2014, 11:31:42 AM
#40
Believing in the Buddha has really led those monks down the path of evil hasnt it?   Seriously  that may have been the dumbest thing you have ever said.  And in the long litany of  that has come off your keyboard there is some stiff competition for the  award.   I suppose you will be the first person to volunteer to put those evil bastards to death.
I suppose if one lived in your world, where reading comprehesion and integrity is optional.

By the way, still waiting for you answer here:

Are you saying that there is no criteria where one human can put another to death and it is not murder?

If there is criteria for when a person can take the life of another and it not be murder - then what is that criteria based on?
I dont really care about your irrelevent question about other instances where killing may or may not be murder.  We are talking about one specific situation....

The one specific situation we are discussigin is where a person has a different faith and is put to death, killed, murdered, terminated, etc. for simply having that different faith.   You can call it what you like but that is murder.
sr. member
Activity: 350
Merit: 250
August 11, 2014, 11:30:19 AM
#39
I am not trolling....and i asked myself those questions many times....but i choose to believe my religion....and as long as i don't harm others with my believe i don't see what is wrong with it.I don't judge you for saving the life of some animals and kill the others, i do the same,and probably makes me good and bad in the same time.I started this topic to see peoples opinion and to find answers to my questions.
hero member
Activity: 490
Merit: 500
August 11, 2014, 10:27:46 AM
#38
As Sana points out - to worship something other than one's own Creator is wrong.

In fact, dangerous and leads to evil.

Not sure if trolling...

But I'll bite..

Did you ask yourself this question:

How do I know who is my Creator? Who told me this? Do the ones who told me have an agenda? Is there any proof that my Creator even exists, or is it just something I'm told by people so often until I accepted it as a truth? No matter where you live, do you realize that your entire life is formed by your culture, the values and customs that exist where you live? Do you realize that if you were born somewhere else, you would have a different set of values, and living in an other culture, and having an entirely different view on life? So in reality, which religion you've been sucked into depends on were you're born basically.

It's a bit like chosing a TV-show, or supporting a soccer team, since you support a particular team, then it's 'the only right one'. And all other is shit. It's not a very mature attitude.

You state that to worship anything else than your own Creator is wrong and is dangerous and lead to evil, seems to indicate you're still stuck in the same mindset as those of the middle ages. The truth is that any opinion that you have about worshipping anything else than your Creator is dangerous and leading to evil, is an opinion made by humans. Most often such statements are outdated, and they're made to gather a certain amount of people in a certain religion. Fear is a powerful tool, and if you can control people's mind, you control people. In reality, the only thing to fear is fear itself.

Stating it would be dangerous and lead to evil to worship anything but your Creator is hillarious. I don't pray to a God. Every day I go outside my door, I can decide whether I want to be god or bad. There's no God influencing this choice. There's no God or Creator having copyrighted good actions.

Being a muslim, hindu, catholic, buddhist or whatever - it's the persons choice to be good or bad. All religions have their rotten eggs. Heck, there might be no difference between an atheist and a buddhist, an atheist can be an oustanding individual, doing a lot of good for himself and society, just like a buddhist could be a really bad person.

So no matter, if you chose to be a devoted muslim, a devoted christian or whatever, if you go alongside a road, and you see a basket with some kittens in it, that's left to die, its your choice whether you want to reach out and help them, or to just walk way not caring. It has nothing to do with your religion, it has all to do with you.

I never pray to God, but when I see a smal frog on the road, I take it up and put it in the ditch. Which probably makes me a good person in your eyes, as I'm saving it. On the other side, I often kill snails, which are invading the area where I live, this might make me evil in your eyes.

Point is that, evil or bad - we all have both of it in us, and we choose ourselves what we think shall prevail. A fundamentally good person, is fundamentally a good person, no matter which religion he belongs to or if he has no religion at all.
sr. member
Activity: 350
Merit: 250
August 11, 2014, 10:27:12 AM
#37
Believing in the Buddha has really led those monks down the path of evil hasnt it?   Seriously  that may have been the dumbest thing you have ever said.  And in the long litany of  that has come off your keyboard there is some stiff competition for the  award.   I suppose you will be the first person to volunteer to put those evil bastards to death.
I suppose if one lived in your world, where reading comprehesion and integrity is optional.

By the way, still waiting for you answer here:

Are you saying that there is no criteria where one human can put another to death and it is not murder?

If there is criteria for when a person can take the life of another and it not be murder - then what is that criteria based on?
vip
Activity: 1428
Merit: 1145
August 11, 2014, 10:23:37 AM
#36

"Not this again!"
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