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Topic: [DVC]DevCoin - Official Thread - Moderated - page 225. (Read 1058949 times)

legendary
Activity: 1176
Merit: 1019
I do not give financial advice .. do your own DD
I propose a 48 share bounty for whoever creates a devcoin wallet similar to that of the TREZOR Bitcoin wallet (http://www.bitcointrezor.com/).
Does anybody object to this?

Thanks,
-AM
Yeah probably. What is it? What's the rationale? What steps would be required? etc

Steps required are someone would need knowledge of how the software is able to store the bitcoins securely and be able to change it up, as well as creating a new device for the actual storage. The rationale behind this is to help promote devcoin since you really can not take them places aside from through your laptop or accessing from vircurex or other web based storage... It is basically a portable wallet for bitcoin that could possible work for devcoin. As for the other replies to the proposal if now is not the time because of the whole android wallet coming out then that is fine as well.

Yea with android wallet you get the offline spending and stuff, so you can pretty much write your private key on paper and store it somewhere safe, dont even bother with usb and devices that may not last a tested amount of time. Better yet the android wallet will let you export your devcoin private key via QR code and then you can print it out on paper or whatever you want.

I was thinking the same thing about that little device. What happens if you accidentally damage it just like you would a cellphone? Are all of the keys lost? I would much rather have them printed on paper.
legendary
Activity: 2940
Merit: 1090
Hey guys,

http://www.icloudcenter.net/demos/ICPenny/index.php?

This one is distributed as GNU GPL...

 Main Features:

    Users register and pay for participation
    Two types of auctions
    Customizable bid increment system
    Powerful admin panel
    Autobid
    Bid Packages


Where is the download link? I don't see one there...

In fact I tihnk the marketing of auction software has gotten so rabid that people spaming all the free software sites with lies, so that people searching using keys like GNU and FREE will keep finding only their commercial packages.  have yet to find any download links, and see the same packages listed with more than one license, both of which might be lies. (PHP license and GNU license for that one, for example.)

-MarkM-
member
Activity: 70
Merit: 10
btw with cryptsy and vircurex volume's so high we are getting well above the 7.2 million dvc volume per day... the longer it stays at these prices the better Smiley

Question, where did you get the 7.2M DVC / day?  Last I saw on Vircurex DVC - BTC was over 67M and BTC - DVC was like 56 BTC which is over 56M DVC. That would put it just on Vir over 100M DVC today.  Just an observation Smiley

Price will rise if volume is more than 7.2M DVC a day since that is the amount that is minted. Supply/Demand. Since we just started to have this volume, it will take some time to saturate old coins with the volume but I like to use an average volume since we work on monthly cycles, to use a monthly average... a rolling 6 month average is probably ideal but by then saturation has probably already occured... its useful to find outliers coins who have a higher than usual volume per day basis for say a few weeks, and then figure that it is probably undervalued in the medium term if the price doesn't reflect the newfound demand.

Awesome, thanx for the explanation! I had no clue what you meant by the 7.2 and no idea about it's significance. Makes sense tho! Thanx Smiley Oh and Dodg's are up around 6000BTC  volume on Cryptsy... that is a LOT of coins.... near 6 Billion?

Edit: ok since they are up around 180satoshi's I guess it is more like 3.8 Billion Volume Smiley

Yea thats nuts.. it has more coins but I think only 6 billion are minted as of today? So all hands are changing over? Aslong as that volume continues it should go up for sure.. I didnt expect that.. but I think the institutional investors are coming in looking for cheap coins to pump for bigger profits.

Yeah I am sure a lot of that is back and forth like we do with DevCoin, but still 3-4B is a LOT!
member
Activity: 70
Merit: 10
Hey guys,

http://www.icloudcenter.net/demos/ICPenny/index.php?

This one is distributed as GNU GPL...

 Main Features:

    Users register and pay for participation
    Two types of auctions
    Customizable bid increment system
    Powerful admin panel
    Autobid
    Bid Packages


Go for it, if you get it set up and working I will help out where I can, but I can't devote the time to fully developing for it and admin and daily upkeep etc. If there is something (small change or addon or whatever) I will help out where I can. I still don't think it is a great idea though, but it wouldn't be the first time I was wrong...
legendary
Activity: 2044
Merit: 1005
btw with cryptsy and vircurex volume's so high we are getting well above the 7.2 million dvc volume per day... the longer it stays at these prices the better Smiley

Question, where did you get the 7.2M DVC / day?  Last I saw on Vircurex DVC - BTC was over 67M and BTC - DVC was like 56 BTC which is over 56M DVC. That would put it just on Vir over 100M DVC today.  Just an observation Smiley

Price will rise if volume is more than 7.2M DVC a day since that is the amount that is minted. Supply/Demand. Since we just started to have this volume, it will take some time to saturate old coins with the volume but I like to use an average volume since we work on monthly cycles, to use a monthly average... a rolling 6 month average is probably ideal but by then saturation has probably already occured... its useful to find outliers coins who have a higher than usual volume per day basis for say a few weeks, and then figure that it is probably undervalued in the medium term if the price doesn't reflect the newfound demand.

Awesome, thanx for the explanation! I had no clue what you meant by the 7.2 and no idea about it's significance. Makes sense tho! Thanx Smiley Oh and Dodg's are up around 6000BTC  volume on Cryptsy... that is a LOT of coins.... near 6 Billion?

Edit: ok since they are up around 180satoshi's I guess it is more like 3.8 Billion Volume Smiley

Yea thats nuts.. it has more coins but I think only 6 billion are minted as of today? So all hands are changing over? Aslong as that volume continues it should go up for sure.. I didnt expect that.. but I think the institutional investors are coming in looking for cheap coins to pump for bigger profits.
legendary
Activity: 2044
Merit: 1005
Hey guys,

http://www.icloudcenter.net/demos/ICPenny/index.php?

This one is distributed as GNU GPL...

 Main Features:

    Users register and pay for participation
    Two types of auctions
    Customizable bid increment system
    Powerful admin panel
    Autobid
    Bid Packages
member
Activity: 70
Merit: 10
I see that there is a current user on Devtome that is doing League of Legends guides.
I am not like this person, his guides are copied and pasted over and over with very little actual information or depth.

I do not like it at all that he is taking advantage of devtome and i assure you my guides will be quality, lengthy, and very in depth.

I want to help people become better players, not take advantage of devtome. I really suggest removing that toxic user and his so-called "guides".

Anybody can use copy and paste.

He isn't the only one doing stuff like that Smiley
member
Activity: 70
Merit: 10
btw with cryptsy and vircurex volume's so high we are getting well above the 7.2 million dvc volume per day... the longer it stays at these prices the better Smiley

Question, where did you get the 7.2M DVC / day?  Last I saw on Vircurex DVC - BTC was over 67M and BTC - DVC was like 56 BTC which is over 56M DVC. That would put it just on Vir over 100M DVC today.  Just an observation Smiley

Price will rise if volume is more than 7.2M DVC a day since that is the amount that is minted. Supply/Demand. Since we just started to have this volume, it will take some time to saturate old coins with the volume but I like to use an average volume since we work on monthly cycles, to use a monthly average... a rolling 6 month average is probably ideal but by then saturation has probably already occured... its useful to find outliers coins who have a higher than usual volume per day basis for say a few weeks, and then figure that it is probably undervalued in the medium term if the price doesn't reflect the newfound demand.

Awesome, thanx for the explanation! I had no clue what you meant by the 7.2 and no idea about it's significance. Makes sense tho! Thanx Smiley Oh and Dodg's are up around 6000BTC  volume on Cryptsy... that is a LOT of coins.... near 6 Billion?

Edit: ok since they are up around 180satoshi's I guess it is more like 3.8 Billion Volume Smiley
hero member
Activity: 779
Merit: 500
I see that there is a current user on Devtome that is doing League of Legends guides.
I am not like this person, his guides are copied and pasted over and over with very little actual information or depth.

I do not like it at all that he is taking advantage of devtome and i assure you my guides will be quality, lengthy, and very in depth.

I want to help people become better players, not take advantage of devtome. I really suggest removing that toxic user and his so-called "guides".

Anybody can use copy and paste.
legendary
Activity: 2044
Merit: 1005
I propose a 48 share bounty for whoever creates a devcoin wallet similar to that of the TREZOR Bitcoin wallet (http://www.bitcointrezor.com/).
Does anybody object to this?

Thanks,
-AM
Yeah probably. What is it? What's the rationale? What steps would be required? etc

Steps required are someone would need knowledge of how the software is able to store the bitcoins securely and be able to change it up, as well as creating a new device for the actual storage. The rationale behind this is to help promote devcoin since you really can not take them places aside from through your laptop or accessing from vircurex or other web based storage... It is basically a portable wallet for bitcoin that could possible work for devcoin. As for the other replies to the proposal if now is not the time because of the whole android wallet coming out then that is fine as well.

Yea with android wallet you get the offline spending and stuff, so you can pretty much write your private key on paper and store it somewhere safe, dont even bother with usb and devices that may not last a tested amount of time. Better yet the android wallet will let you export your devcoin private key via QR code and then you can print it out on paper or whatever you want.
legendary
Activity: 2044
Merit: 1005
btw with cryptsy and vircurex volume's so high we are getting well above the 7.2 million dvc volume per day... the longer it stays at these prices the better Smiley

Question, where did you get the 7.2M DVC / day?  Last I saw on Vircurex DVC - BTC was over 67M and BTC - DVC was like 56 BTC which is over 56M DVC. That would put it just on Vir over 100M DVC today.  Just an observation Smiley

Price will rise if volume is more than 7.2M DVC a day since that is the amount that is minted. Supply/Demand. Since we just started to have this volume, it will take some time to saturate old coins with the volume but I like to use an average volume since we work on monthly cycles, to use a monthly average... a rolling 6 month average is probably ideal but by then saturation has probably already occured... its useful to find outliers coins who have a higher than usual volume per day basis for say a few weeks, and then figure that it is probably undervalued in the medium term if the price doesn't reflect the newfound demand.
full member
Activity: 387
Merit: 100
I propose a 48 share bounty for whoever creates a devcoin wallet similar to that of the TREZOR Bitcoin wallet (http://www.bitcointrezor.com/).
Does anybody object to this?

Thanks,
-AM
Yeah probably. What is it? What's the rationale? What steps would be required? etc

Steps required are someone would need knowledge of how the software is able to store the bitcoins securely and be able to change it up, as well as creating a new device for the actual storage. The rationale behind this is to help promote devcoin since you really can not take them places aside from through your laptop or accessing from vircurex or other web based storage... It is basically a portable wallet for bitcoin that could possible work for devcoin. As for the other replies to the proposal if now is not the time because of the whole android wallet coming out then that is fine as well.
legendary
Activity: 2940
Merit: 1090
I think about half of the merged mined coins keep generating coins forever. DVC, GRP, CLC and GeistGeld all do, I think.

The latter two are still ridiculously easy to mine too so we could rake in lots of them before all the public merged mining pools get around to adding them if only someone had done the free open source merged mining pool code bounty.

Unfortunately anyone even considering doing that bounty probably figured they would be better off making umpteen times as much money for a fraction as much work by just writing stuff in Devtome.

I still think now and then though about doing some kind of mining company with shares and having it do merged mining, so as to expose more people to the less-well-known merged mined coins.

But with the free open source mining pool software we could have made pools that pay out only the first four or six or so of the merged mined coins the first few months or years or whatever, only starting to give out the CLC and XGG later on once people actually want them enough because they are on enough exchanges and so on that they consider them important enough to be worth coming to a pool that does include them over a pool that does not.

For doing a credit union the Cyclos system might be useful but I heard they were going to stop being free open source on newer versions.

Open Transactions should be very useful as soon as the installer system is set up for it so that people can install it instead of having to compile it themselves.

-MarkM-
member
Activity: 70
Merit: 10
btw with cryptsy and vircurex volume's so high we are getting well above the 7.2 million dvc volume per day... the longer it stays at these prices the better Smiley

Question, where did you get the 7.2M DVC / day?  Last I saw on Vircurex DVC - BTC was over 67M and BTC - DVC was like 56 BTC which is over 56M DVC. That would put it just on Vir over 100M DVC today.  Just an observation Smiley
hero member
Activity: 994
Merit: 1000
So you have a business that accepts bitcoin/devcoin. But you really don't care about bitcoin, so it's superfluous to the definition because really you say in the next sentence that any other coins are just going to be used to buy devcoin. So what you really have is an invention that sells a product/service and turns those profits in to cryptocurrency buys/bids/funding projects/bounties/pay devtome writers.

That's not a business. You're trying to create an economic system. In fact, I've read these threads and I think I am unlearning what ya'll want to accomplish.

Yeah, any time someone says "Increase the value of devcoins for everyone", they're implying a more robust economic system. The ultimate accomplishment is to proliferate open source.

If accepting DeVCoin would make any sense to such sites as a business proposition then creating yet another such site seems redundant, since it would make sense for such sites to support DeVCoin so if they are not themselves idiots - which presumably they are not if the are already succeeding even without DeVCoins having any involvement - they will do the sensible thing and accept DeVCoins.

Meanwhile I foresee us basically ending up having put someone into a business of their own (since there is no legal entity constituting the DeVCoin project that could own shares of the business) who will simply find, like all the other such auction sites, that it makes no sense to bother with DeVCoins.

On the other hand if we create free open source software for doing such sites, maybe hundreds or thousands of people will try to make a go of such sites and maybe - not likely but maybe - among them will turn out to be someone who will somehow make a go of it, and at that point we could approach them hoping they are more sympathetic to the idea of accepting DeVCoins (since DeVCoins made available to them the free open source software that made their business possible) than quibids or other sites using similar models but possibly not using free open source software to do it, let alone free open souce software that is only free and open source thanks to the DeVCoin project.


The other problem is that a site that accepts devcoins as a secondary coin will have their own base currency to work in, strengthening that, as money flows in. Devcoin economic value will be lower, compared to an equivalent site that uses dvc as the base currency to measure profit. What we want, is not for businesses to be sympathetic to our cause, but to follow our lead - where they choose to accept devcoins because it suits them. We can do that by creating a strong economic system. The fact that devcoins are less attractive to speculators actually makes it better suited to this task than the other crypto currencies.

One of the ultimate problems with bitcoins et al, is that they want to replace fiat as the go-to trade currency, but they're just not as good as fiat at doing that because of the deflation driven speculation - most fiat businesses that 'accept bitcoins' have probably never even see one. Devcoins are in the unique position where the production of coins is infinite (is it the only one?). It's the closest coin to fiat in terms of inflation, which makes it far better as a potential trading currency than all of the other coins - the cost of production is very low with merged mining etc. If it's going to succeed in its mission (proliferate open source), then in my opinion it should be taking advantage of this strength.

I believe for it to fully realize it's unique market position, it should focus on becoming the currency that people naturally want to convert all other crypto-currencies into, to get work done, like purchase inputs with and pay salaries from (so a form of cashflow currency - I don't know how realistic this is at the moment). We have a chance of achieving that because: it is an administrated coin (so emphasis on products can be made), we're interesting to creators of work not just speculators, the price is actually relatively stable, and we have all the other benefits of cryptocurrencies. Combine this with your last paragraph, and I think it's a recipe for success. Open source is very much about empowering people, and it leaves us with a very important question to ask:

Does the devcoin project want to create individual businesses and hope to compete against all the other already successful businesses, or create a framework for business (with open source tools, plus maybe an example business) for others to push their own success? Gabe Newell / Valve was doing very well from steam and traditional game production, but is doing phenomenally better with f2p and user empowerment. He's completely sold on the idea of empowering people, and has essentially created an economy of his own (TF2 hats and DOTA 2 items). I think in the vein of the original devcoin goal, the second version makes more sense.

The credit union is a good idea for this, and ultimately we as administrators should be looking at ways to empower people into creating them with open source software - whether by just finding and packaging it into an example, working credit union, which others can freely copy, or creating one from scratch, which others can freely copy. Of course in most cases we'll use the cheapest option, with the caveat that the solution must be completely open source and freely usable. I think we should stick to innovating and let the market decide its value.
legendary
Activity: 2044
Merit: 1005
btw with cryptsy and vircurex volume's so high we are getting well above the 7.2 million dvc volume per day... the longer it stays at these prices the better Smiley
full member
Activity: 232
Merit: 104

The amount of shares that are given should be derived by the developer who is willing to take the least amount of devcoins for the particular task.
That way we could introduce some kind of competition that lowers the shares, but rises the value of devcoins.

Aslong as people get large amount of devcoins for simply writing a text about anything they want nomatter the value for society we are not going anywhere.


It seemed just a matter of time for this shoe to drop. The religious zeal of market competition will have western freelance developers competing with Asian developers for $3/hour bids, which one now sees on many coding monkey projects' sites. Meanwhile writers get $50/hour for writing to DevTomes. A few shares spread around for a committee to get the mandate of this project down for referral may be a good idea.

- Nova
legendary
Activity: 2940
Merit: 1090
Open Transactions provides a lot of stuff and aims to provide more too that is not actually in the code yet but the Lex Cryptographia also wants more such as reputation systems for example of one thing I can think of off the top of my head that Open Transactions does not even have it in mind to provide itself I think.

-MarkM-
legendary
Activity: 2044
Merit: 1005
A bounty exchange would be cool but when I brought it up before UTB said we simply don't have enough admins to support growing bounty list that is dynamic based on some demand... but I think if it starts small it will go a long way to 1) get new ideas of projects that may help devcoin and 2) a platform to communicate, update status and provide feedback to those working on bounties.. would help organize things, like maybe a testing phase of the bounty where people are assigned to tasks to ensure the bounty is complete to spec.
legendary
Activity: 2044
Merit: 1005
As to the risk posed by depositing with a third party at all, maybe a really good pile of bounties to consider would be bounties aimed at making tangible real and functional the Lex Cryptographia concepts: http://bitcoinism.blogspot.ca/2013/12/lex-cryptographia.html

(Which happens to be another thing that Open Transactions is expected to be an important tool for/toward.)

-MarkM-


Isn't this at the core of what Open Transactions would provide? Escrow, bonds, surety of contracts between 2 parties?
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