Topic: Economic Devastation - page 103. (Read 504813 times)

They have chapters of things like the Fabian society in New Zealand, amongst other bizarre, ideological institutions that are found in old money Europe and the US.  Those kinds of ties, "old boys club", or whatever you want to call it, make it hard for places to just break out from whatever London, the US, etc, is doing.

When you called New Zealand paradise, there seems to be some strange weather patterns there that are documented to cause negatives to human mental state.  I can't recall all the different reasons for why it occurs, I believe some of it had to do with ionization, then there were a few other variables.  Here's where it talks about it some on Wikipedia:

"About 10 percent of people affected by the nor’wester feel elated and wonderful. But the rest feel depressed, irritable, and lacking energy. People feel they can’t cope with everyday things. ... There is irrational anxiety and a sense of foreboding."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nor%27west_arch

There's more in-depth information out there about the NZ weather effect on mental state.  I think a lot of it only affects certain towns/cities bordering a specific side of the island.  As with everything, sme people get sea sick, and some people don't, so similar immunity and susceptibility may apply here.

Most people from that part of the world seem to want to leave NZ and go to Australia instead for some reason when given the choice.  A lot of Ireland looks like New Zealand, and people aren't tripping over themselves to leave the UK and go to Ireland.

Maybe it can help now.

Discovering Your Creative Potential, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYdiCCyU2zc
Tapping Into the Source of Creativity, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXlFM8Aw8dU
Clearing What's Blocking You, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-DeGQ6O4Qw
Unleashing Your Creative Energy, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boxyebAac2Y

...

I keep telling all of you sumzabitchez that this is a great thread, maybe the greatest ever.  Explorers, pioneers of new ideas add a lot of value to our world in that they have to work and pay a heavy price for many of the advances we have seen.

And now we know more about you, iamback.  OK, now we have seen a price you have had to pay for your work.  CoinCube has recognized greatness when he sees it, and graciously engages you to perform even better.  He even passed along some ancient wisdom from some "AnonyMint"...   

I am pleased to have been a small part of this thread.  It has taken me awhile to catch on to the rhythms here.

No don't shut up, at least not permanently. You have reflected on your life and what really is important. If you set a goal to surround yourself with loved ones you can make it happen. There is solace and peace of mind knowing that you have others that have your back and love you.

He may have been a fictional character but Spock was right when he said 'Live long and prosper'.

There is nothing to apologize for at least not to me. I see wisdom in that poem and only wanted to share it.
None of us can change the distant past. The best we clay footed humans can do is try to muddle along as best we can take the lessons we learn along the way and try to apply them going forward.

Below is a piece of knowledge that someone very smart taught me.


Some new ideas will take us down dead ends. Others will enhance and perhaps even replace our current paradigm. I believe your work is unique and takes us to a higher level of understanding. Honest challengers will in the end only strengthen that understanding. One of those challengers may bring to the table another unique contribution that takes us even higher. Most or perhaps all will be dead ends yet still foster discussion furthering overall awareness.

This thread has progressed from debating the existance of the problem to debating potential solutions to the problem. I would call that progress.

CoinCube perhaps that is not fair. Although it is true I have raged, it is because there is never any consistent traction. I tried to use forceful dialogue to make sure you didn't waste your time down a delusional path and dilute all the effort I (and you) have put into this thread. But perhaps you are correct. I should let it go.

Today was an incredibly bizarre day for me. I reconnected with my first wife for the first communication in 20 years, who is now happily married with 3 daughters.

Talk about causing a total reordering of priorities. In a few instants, her kindness has made me realize my entire life is a failure. Through her kindness I have collapsed in a river of tears. All of sudden, everything else in this world seemed so unimportant.

When you know you've lost the woman who really loved you, no amount of accomplishments can restore such a mistake.

You only get to be 20s once and fall in love for a lifetime. And you screw that up, what the hell does it matter if Obama kills me with a drone because I tried to foster the ideals that she and I fought for at the Perot national convention in 1992.

On top of that I ran 3 times today. First time in a long time, I achieved nearly 4 miles in one day. Raw vegan diet may be working.

Should I apologize CoinCube? For trying to impress what I think is the correct logic. Perhaps. Perhaps I should STFU.

When we are angry at mankind
Or rave at some depravity of mind
When we would curse behaviour of a kind
To argue, rather than to view benign
It is with our own self we battle wage
When choosing not to understand, nor to engage
With that from which we isolate our self
With anger sent, to where, perhaps is needed help
Lest fearful, reason may just find the time
With tenderness, to enter in our mind.
And so it is perhaps from loss of our own face
We are so quick to shout of their disgrace
But we should not lose sight of our own sins
Though, in different colours dressed, appear they in
For is not all, of nature in this life?
The good, the bad, together, love, and strife
As nature, this is how such things will be
So it is not how loud we shout, but what we see
And seeing do, to help, to liberate
To free with tolerance, not shut the gate
That is
How it should be

-- Egal Bohen

...

iamback

Your MUCH stricter definition of members in a Dunbar Limit/Number means that I would have far fewer...  Maybe 10 - 12, that's about it.  That count would include family members.

Re anonymity, I agree.  I would rather have at least a fair amount of anonymity rather than being in a "tribe", even a large-ish one where everyone "knows" each other by a "reputation".  Even among a tribe of people who "agree" on matters. 

Mmm, maybe it's because I "never played well with others..."

You also raise, with subtlety, the issue of the seductive power of Marxism, at least in a sense.  And the power of Marxism works!  Look who our president is!  And I have little-to-no faith that any of the more attractive sounding candidates (eg, Scott Walker) really would do any better.  Maybe..., but as the old saying goes: "Hold your breath, you'll die."

Galt's Gulch may be our best solution for the next few years.

Your count of acquaintances is not your Dunbar limit in the context of knowing everything a person does so they can't cheat.

I doubt most of us would want to live in a tribe, where everything we do is not private.

Anonymity is not only necessary, it is also more desirable because we all like some privacy and to choose what we want to share.

Those (e.g. l3552) who are pitching these reputation ideas, are probably NSA moles who want to enslave us. They paint some wonderful Marxist delusion and you gullible suckers fall for it every damn time.

...

The Dunbar Number perhaps merits a thread of its own (although it would be way O/T).  I still marvel how our daughter has 600 "friends" on Facebook.  I once went through the exercise of calculating the number of "friends" I have ever had (friend defined as someone where I got their name and had some kind of real conversation with -- clearly a "loose" definition of friend (ie, makes my total higher), the number wound up about 350 - 400).  350 to 400?  I am not even extroverted (really).

*  *  *

I also observe that the trend for years has been towards a "winner take all" society, I do not have any links handy re this topic, but it really does seem to be what is happening throughout the world (perhaps in part BECAUSE the world is more connected).  The top 0.001% (or so, and of course varies by the arena in which the winners are playing) really are winning more than in the past.

Whether that is good or not is not up to me to decide, nor even how much it really matters...

---------------------------- Original Message ----------------------------
Subject: Mar 20: Armstrong (& most humans) is a Marxist! (even he doesn't  realize it)
From:    iamback
Date:    Fri, March 20, 2015 8:30 am
To:      "Armstrong Economics" <[email protected]>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------


Sheesh CoinCube, your Marxist tilt makes you so gullible. I expect greater rationality from you with your math background! Where did you attain the Maxist indoctrination? How can you rid yourself of that mental disease?


Absolutely false!

The actual number (when applied to this context) is well below a 100, because people simply don't have enough time to both work, raise a family, and be on top of the myriad of ways that those with reputation secretly (i.e. opaquely through a side channel outside the transparent paradigm) aggregate power.

http://armstrongeconomics.com/2015/03/17/the-majority-are-just-fools/



Nobody wants a money that has a limited scope. Precisely what makes money useful is it raises the efficiency of trade. The poor don't want some unit which they can only get one or two things in exchange for. They want fungible money just like the rest of us do!

And non-anonymous ledger isn't going to help anyone escape taxation. The government will threaten to cut off their welfare benefits.

The idea is the insanely stupid idea, I can't even believe you fell for it! Cripes, I am very disappointed in you. You have absolutely no talent whatsoever as an entrepreneur. You are too far removed from reality.


You can join Armstrong and both of you can be good Marxists who believe you can top-down manage the universe.

Sorry I am smarter than you guys.

P.S. I suspect Armstrong is starting to realize I am correct. I think he is too smart not to get this. I hope I am not disappointed by him.

l3552 as I said before I think your idea is interesting and certainly deserves a hearing. I have no objections to you starting a thread on it and moving further discussion there. To the degree it matters you have the CoinCube thumbs up.

Edit: For further discussion https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/reputation-coin-or-the-passing-of-greed-vs-money-and-anonymity-998993

The Dunbar number (the hypothesized maximum number of people man can maintain stable social relationships with) is thought to be anywhere between 150-250. It seems reasonable that with the aid of modern technology and only for trade this could be extended by a factor of at least 2-5 before you start to hit serious issues with reputation and scaling. So an enhanced barter system with the aid of technology could probably function reasonably well as long as the group size was limited to somewhere between 300-1000 people. Small trading groups could potentially exist within a larger community. Barter transactions would be incentivized by tax avoidance and the need to not compromize government benefits and inhibited by the natural inefficiencies that are unavoidable with barter.

Would it work? I have no idea. The poor are typically poor for reasons that go far beyond bad luck. However, their economic incentives going forward will increasingly favor barter transactions so it seems at least plausible that something like this would help them at least to some degree.

I am of the opinion that any system that encourages and allows trade to occur without debt and without fiat is a step in the right direction. Some attempted solutions may be more useful than others and some will fail outright but I believe it is a mistake to summarily dismiss and discourage those with interesting ideas.


I find myself in the odd position of quoting Martin Armstrong back at you.

http://armstrongeconomics.com/2013/10/13/solution/


On this issue as on many others my friend we agree on the overall picture but not the details. Like Armstrong I also believe government can eventually be reformed. It will not come easy and it will not come soon (definitly not before a major collapse and probably not this generation) but I believe it can eventually be done.  

---------------------------- Original Message ----------------------------
Subject: Mar 20: rise of 3rd parties == breakup of USA != end of MORASS
From:    iamback
Date:    Thu, March 19, 2015 9:47 pm
To:      "Armstrong Economics" <[email protected]>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------


I am trying to get away from quoting and writing about Armstrong, but before I do, I want to address his claim that the timing is right for his top-down "Solutions" to the MOR-ASS:

http://armstrongeconomics.com/2015/03/19/time-to-get-the-debate-moving/

http://armstrongeconomics.com/2015/03/19/the-man-destroying-the-republican-party/

http://armstrongeconomics.com/2015/03/09/downs-armstrong-from-capitol-hill/

The Fascists at the helm of the DEEP STATE will not allow the Tea Party to take over WA D.C.! No way!

Also as the economy collapses in 2016 or 2017, the number of people dependent on the government welfare will rise, thus the democrats will gain more support.

Boehner works for the DEEP STATE and they realize they will leverage "old boy" Republicans and Democrats to retain control. In worst case, they will move to totalitarianism and executive orders.

The third parties will gain a lot but not win (if necessary elections will be rigged) and this will cause the USA to go into essentially civil unrest and war. The inability to get anything reformed from WA D.C. will drive the breakup of the USA.

This is a MORASS. Armstrong is welcome to throw his time down this blackhole.

It is useless if I don't share it.

...

Actually, iamback, I believe you're right on both counts, that both of you care.  You would not have put in time here if you did not care. (Same comment for CoinCube).  And, I commend you for that.

Also, since you are involved in something at a very high intellectual level, yeah OK, "we" can cut you some slack, smile,,,  I don't mean to be an asshole (EDIT: or a dumbshit...).

But (as I mentioned in that other thread), I would bet that many of us would be very curious to learn about your recent programming work (when you are done), whether you broadcast it as yours or not.  I am *guessing* that the Knowledge Age would encourage sharing of information.

I didn't say anything insulting to CoinCube. He cares about people, as do I. But surely he will see that he isn't helping people by fostering their delusions. By standing in the way of their adjustment by impeding the incentives the free market will give humans to adapt, he will only make the problem worse.

As for welfare to help people over the hump of their adjustments, we can all do that. We all know people we can help out.

...

Ol' Dr. CoinCube must have one of the most decent personalities of anyone I have seen online, LOLOL....

iamback, you even called him your friend (and near intellectual peer)!  And, yes, I did read CC's recent post mentioning that he is accustomed to your manner of address.  (I am getting thicker skin by the day, but for other reasons)

But, there are smart people around who prefer a more civilized level of discourse.  Maybe you would get better results (more insightful comments beyond my league, for example) if you just played nicely!

Whatever, I find THIS THREAD to be probably the most interesting one here at bitcointalk.  Just the fact that there have been so many replies (almost 1000 replies) for so long demonstrates that CoinCube and iamback (and all you others) have found real paydirt for anyone wishing to read through all of this...

---------------------------- Original Message ----------------------------
Subject: Mar 20: the delusion of Marxism persists
From:   iamback
Date:    Thu, March 19, 2015 9:22 pm
To:      "Armstrong Economics" <[email protected]>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------


CoinCube, it is unfortunate that you are blinded from math by your emotions.

All reputation systems scale to "winner take all". Humans can manage this in small tribes within their Dunbar limit where they can see all the shit that everyone does to minute detail so the tribal leader is held accountable. But we don't live in isolated tribes any more. Thermodynamics applies in spades (c.f. Coasian barriers, closed vs. open systems, etc).

I could go into this from physics, entropy, power vacuum, etc.. I don't have time now.

That you can fall into this shit which has been tried over and over in history just goes to show how hopeless it is to reform a MOR-ASS. Humans are really blinded to their fate in the Petri dish. They will continue to make the same mistakes over and over again.

Blaming greed is just more of the "99% vs. 1%" delusion that reinforces the status quo. We don't have a magic wand to make human nature and power-law distributions not exist (because if they didn't exist then uniform distributions require the speed-of-light would be infinite and the past and present would collapse into a infinitesimal point and we would cease to exist).

Hey we are going into a vortex of collapse. You better understand that no one can stop that. Nature might solve the problem with a pandemic. Man will help out with wars. This is the way these cycles play out. All I can do is help to provide outlets for those who are smart enough. I can't help a dumb parasite be not dumb. Come on, we are not God.

I do believe that expanding the Knowledge Age will provide many opportunities for even those who have a lower education. Do you know how many uneducated people I am hiring for the launch of my new website?

Analogous to Armstrong framing the need for his "Solution" due to his claim of impossibility of private money in the digital age, you are also I think overstating a false dichotomy. The Knowledge Age will provide opportunities for all walks of people.

---

Edit to add: This delusion about poor people learning from some system of labor credits is just so incredibly ignorant of the reality of how things work in the real world, it just boggles my mind. Sorry if this is insulting, but you are acting like Cathedral academic who is out-of-touch with reality. The labor credits themselves will be another form of slavery. What the poor want is fungible money, even my ex trades some of her food stamps for cash!

What you are really asking for is an anonymous currency, not for a non-anonymous ledger!

Because it was experienced, conceptualized and taught in a world of commoditization of human awareness. It's flawed to the bone.


You are not wrong by saying that the majority is like sheep. Right now the lamb breed and live her entire life on captivity by the interests of some farmer that do his best to keep the flock as homogeneous as it can be. But, once in a while some weird and strong lamb is born capable of dragging centuries of conditioning and getting new ideas and as this is a recurrent problem it was envisioned to get this special sheep as much as against the flock as possible and/or offer it cheap honors. You can act like the pigs from Animal Farm or like the sheep you are and help your peers.


"greed" as "money" requires commoditization to have meaning as a word. The passing of greed is not the changing of human nature by itself, but the systemic change that will allow the realization that you can't have more by depriving others, because you are linked. How can I be greedy in a system that for ever single transaction I do I got as much good as I shared?