Topic: Economic Devastation - page 105. (Read 504776 times)

---------------------------- Original Message ----------------------------
Subject: Mar 18: information != knowledge (they are fundamentally different concepts)
From:    iamback
Date:    Wed, March 18, 2015 10:37 am
To:      "Armstrong Economics" <[email protected]>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------



Information can be stolen, e.g. instructions on how to build a nuclear bomb. But information is static. Knowledge is dynamic and can't be transferred from one brain to another, e.g. you could steal my past software creations but you can't steal my future ones that I haven't created yet; and I can't teach you how I will create them in the future (you'd need a brain transplant).

http://unheresy.com/Information%20Is%20Alive.html#Knowledge_Anneals


I am ignoring bruised ego (a.k.a. butt hurt), irrelevant cavemen, "every man is an island", nincompoops who don't understand the fundamental economic concept of orders-of-magnitude differences relative value. There is a reason as a programmer I can code $10,000 per hour in profitable software, and a farmer without a tractor can't generate $10 per hour in profit.

I have identified the fundamental economics of everything that applies to organization of society.

Why talk about Knowledge Age when I was referring to Tribal Age? Why the urge to say I am entirely wrong over things I wasn't even covering?

I'm defending a truthful method to preserve minimal economic order from now on wherever and whenever there is energy, to me, to you, to granny, to craftsman, to unemployed, to pawn-man, to broker... and not only to knowledge workers. In a way that will sure avoid pharaonic societies and the economic devastation, protecting communities and developing far more resilience to the common man than any anonymous decentralized cryptocurrency will ever do.

Contrary to your common ground, the method is based on truth, cannot be considered illegal by any measure, reopens a page of economic development where society toke a turn over commoditization allowing mass taxation and alienation, and finally solves the ancient problem of tracking reputation that lessened the power of credit and the cost of being lazy/dishonest.

I am not entirely wrong, sir. I just got sweaty to many times to think that food and shelter are granted. They are not and knowledge age will not change that, unless abominations take place.

---------------------------- Original Message ----------------------------
Subject: Mar 18: non-fungibility is why knowledge can't be stolen (can't be financed, taxed, nor expropriated)
From:    iamback
Date:    Wed, March 18, 2015 7:25 am
To:      "Armstrong Economics" <[email protected]>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------



You've got the entirely wrong assumption for the Knowledge Age.

Knowledge can't be stolen. I covered this in my seminal essay, Demise of Finance, Rise of Knowledge, linked from the opening post of this thread.

http://www.coolpage.com/commentary/economic/shelby/Demise%20of%20Finance,%20Rise%20of%20Knowledge.html

So we get back on topic of this thread...

---------------------------- Original Message ----------------------------
Subject: Mar 18: two assumptions of my thesis on why usury & debt will naturally decline (computer revolution)
From:   iamback
Date:    Wed, March 18, 2015 7:11 am
To:      "Armstrong Economics" <[email protected]>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------



In fact for example, posting in the past as AnonyMint I had linked to Nick Szabo's blogs about how the Black Death had reduced labor so that wages rose enough that it became profitable to invest in technology.

My thesis is two-fold:

A) Manual labor is fungible and knowledge production isn't.

B) Agriculture and industrial production required high amounts of fixed capital investment relative to the knowledge production component, but the computer revolution has altered this ratio in favor of knowledge production being the dominant component, e.g. 3D printing instead of mass production factories. Thus debt and stored monetary capital will decline in relative importance in the Knowledge Age. Instead stored knowledge capital will rise to dominance. The technological shift is from a top-down to bottom-up economic dominance and thus the rise of the individual (mind) in economics. I elaborated on this in the subsequent essay, Information Is Alive!, which was not one of the original two linked at the top of the opening post of this thread.

Look how much fucking time this crybaby has wasted in this thread. If he posts again about this nonsense, I am going to reply "this time suckling idiot is on ignore"


If you don't ask for clarification and instead of accuse me of something I have not written because you are too lazy to research my writings, then yes you are wasting my time.

Can you imagine how much time I would lose from programming the solutions we need, if I had to reclarify all my 10,000 posts for each new asshole who wants to make erroneous proclamations about me because you are too lazy to read. The solutions we need would never be completed if I chose to cater to lazy assholes like you. You are so damn self-important (like many Westerners) and think you can just pop into a thread without reading it entirely and scrape off a few sound bites out-of-context and all that accomplishes is confusion and noise. You lazy ass self-important mofo.

If you don't understand how important I am to the solutions coming, that is your problem not mine. If you did some reading, you would come off your ignorant high horse.

The quotes CoinCube made of my writings are taken from one of my two essays linked in the opening post of this thread. How can you fucking comment in a thread if you haven't even read the opening post of the thread? Dude your egregious arrogant self-important laziness is over-the-top beyond incredulous.


That is not a viable solution. Again you are just a vacuous, noise machine wasting the time of those who can actually program technological solutions that are viable.


Again that is inaccurate as you admitted upthread that I praise people quite often. I did it again today stating I love and appreciate Armstrong.

CoinCube you are so afraid of the group opinion, then you cringe when I call a lazy ass mofo what he is. The solutions we need aren't going to come from harmony and popularity contests. Fuck this isn't a beauty pageant.

If you don't understand why the two most successful people in software (Steve Jobs and Bill Gates) did this also, then you don't understand that bullshit walks and production talks.

Fuck even Linus Torvalds and Eric S. Raymond do this (fathers of open source), and this is because highly productive people don't cater to lazy ass, self-important, finger sucking, mofos who wouild ruin our productivity and ruin the productivity of the group by setting a precedent.

In the software world, if you haven't figured it all out by yourself accessing the resources we have already provided (e.g. my 10,000 posts or for programming StackOverflow.com Q & A database), then you are not worthy and just get out of way. We don't hold your fucking hand, because if we did you are just a liability for us and slowing us down.

First you have to keep clearly in your mind what money is and its function in society. Think in terms of individuality but also in terms of group development safety and survive. Lets see the developments.

=First Round
A desires a box which is in possession of B.
A takes the box by force or deception, lessening B possessions and group safety.
A is punished, reassuring B and increasing group safety.

=Second Round
A desires a box which is in possession of B.
A offers B to trade his box for a necklace that he accepts.
A feels richer, B feels richer, increasing group total wealth and group safety.

From these first stages we see although property is related to individuality it has only meaning in a group.

=Third Round
A desires a box which is in possession of B.
A offers B to trade his box for defined job or good. He accepts.
A get the box and do the job, increasing group total wealth and group safety.

You see, a vocal contract just spawned based only on peer pressure and group safety. Already, how would you tax such transaction?

=Fourth Round
A desires a box which is in possession of B.
A offers B to trade his box for a paper in which he vows to build a fence to the holder by a date.
A get the box and B the paper because of A reputation, increasing group total wealth and safety.

Fiat money older brother just spawned and it is already based on debt and reputation. Also, we have to acknowledge on this that B, a holder, probably got the better deal, as he can wait, while A immediately got the box. Already, how would you tax such transaction?

So... the group merged with other groups and kept merging until it was almost impossible to track reputations. Peer pressure lost much of its force and by conclusion the community is weakening and total wealth decreasing.

=Fifth Round
A desires a box which is in possession of B.
A offers B to trade his box for a paper in which he vows to build a fence to the holder by a date, insured by C rice.
A get the box and B the paper because of C reputation of having rice stocked, increasing community total wealth and safety.

Everybody loves rice. It is exclusive, rival and lacks qualitative differentiation so people started to make deals direct by rice as my rice is as good as any other. And from here to no perishables. From it to metals. From metals to certified(reputation) metals. From it to pure confidence... taxable pure confidence.

=Sixth Round
A desires a box which is in possession of B.
A offers B to trade his box for a paper in which the violence monopolist vows to not let anyone trade but by that way, insured by his whip.
A get the box and B the paper because he do not want to be assaulted and because he knows that other people gonna have to accept it, increasing community total wealth and safety?

So the violence monopolist prints money out of fear and alienation and by the commodity nature taxes it.
---
I am not an expert CoinCube, but we saw together A being hit and punished by his treachery behavior on the First Round. The same A that repaired his morals and were trading goods and labor force by the Third Round. Yes, the same A that with an honest promise persuaded not only B but the whole group adding immense value by the Fourth Round, value enough, you know, to prevent civil war and starvation if we are lucky. And that is my bet.

If we can dump the commoditization of human awareness and solve the reputation problem that justified the violence monopolist to take his throne we can even go as far as Seventh Round... and by seventh Round... o My Holy Utopian Future...

What is loosely proposed here is good and urgent. It is a non anonymous truly distributed ledger of non commoditian cryptocredit insured by real people for other real people which reputations are tracked as their certification clubs... AMEM

Just call him...anonymint.  Who the hell is "iamback"?  The terminator?

Side issue, I made a long post about going to the sea instead of staying on land for all of this:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/i-should-buy-a-boat-994951

It's kind of strange people like Anonymint talk about economic implosion all day, then don't really talk about solutions to prevent standing around waiting to die afterwards.

The most thought provoking post I have seen in some time thank you l3552.

I am curious however just how money can keep its "names"? Are you envisioning a completely non anonymous distributed ledger?

If so in a world where the collective can and will use force against the individual I do not see how can keeping the "names" can be synonymous with non taxable or non seizable.

Calling people idiots is just kind of iamback's thing. Even those who agree with his overall thesis would be hesitant to defend his social etiquette.

Nevertheless let me try to move this back and forth into a more academic and hopefully harmonious direction.


iamback has argued that finance and thus usury was useful (in the past) as a means of increasing prosperity and via allowing economies of scale to be created in situations where without usury individuals would be unable to collect sufficient capital to engage productive ideas.

He has also argued that finance eventually attempts to steal from/suppress knowledge as it becomes increasingly irrelevant as we move into an era where knowledge rather than fixed passive capital dominates production and productivity.

He is thus arguing that usury was needed to jump start the industrial revolution however going forward it will increasingly become a scourge. I have copied the relevant sections from his essay Rise of Knowledge (link in the OP).

You're an anonymous guy from the Phillipines (or something like that), and you expect everyone to have read your memoirs?  Then call people idiots that have not done so?  What if everyone on the forum acted in this manner, feigning importance while referring to themselves as geniuses, expecting everyone to read some kind of book they have written before even speaking to them?  The idea is absurd.  Your social skills are rather lacking, which I'm sure you will try to spin as a sign of genius.

You made a statement that without usury, "there is no economy and nothing moves (as was evident in the Dark Age)", then a post later you say it's "the scourge of mankind".  For a person that pretends everything he says is gospel, those are rather contradictory ideas.

We already had a discussion on whether you're exhibiting egomaniacal or sociopathic behavior before, and you said you're clearly not a sociopath because you took an online, internet test for it.  I'm not sure if I'm the only one that found that statement hilarious or not.

---------------------------- Original Message ----------------------------
Subject: Mar 18: the Dunning-Kruger effect is the most damning (sheep that  "mooo")
From:   iamback
Date:    Tue, March 17, 2015 10:15 pm
To:      "Armstrong Economics" <[email protected]>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------



No dimwit. The general assumption I made is that the general population is contented with a subsistence lifestyle if the debt carrot is not placed in front of their nose.

Dude seriously you are not smart enough to have a dialogue with me. Please go away and be contented with your poor reading comprehension.


I have always said roughly the same. You make proclamations about me without even reading sufficiently my archives.


I never praised usury. It is a fact of human nature, and I even stated it is the scourge of mankind.



You love to conflate orthogonal issues.

I think your sample size is too low to make that claim.  The general assumption you make seems to be that with usury, some entities will accumulate tons of capital, and will then utilize that capital to somehow push civilzation forward.  That's only one possibility.  They could also just hang out like Caligula and party, which seems to be what most wealthy people do nowadays.  Luxury goods are flying off the shelves at record pace right now if you didn't notice.  

Another example is, the gilded age in America occurred *because* the increase in technology and industrialization created these wealthy people.  It wasn't the other way around as you seem to talk about.  Wealth did not get trapped in the top 1/10th of 1% (which occurs in usury) and then these people created everything.  There's no reason to expect that to happen.  Usury creates misallocation of capital.  

Reading Anonymint posts is like reading some kind of disinformation bot from the US government where half the stuff sounds intelligent, then the other half is propaganda praising the values of usury.



This quote was basically stolen from "The Bell Curve", or related book like that I've read before.  It's generally terminology used to promote ethnocentric majorities for countries to prevent collapse of the social order.  To liberals, something like this sounds racist, but usually holds true in human sociology.

There are plenty observations to be made on this from the distance you talk about the common folk to the qualifications you use. But I am not here to talk about you and your perceptions over topics, although it is curious and had to be mentioned on our first encounter.

Without entering unnecessary talk as we agree, there is no way to win a war against the concept of the central banks nor the global economy would archive something by getting hide of it. The world is now what it was made to be now and will change only by destructive innovation that rends the past paradigm obsolete. Having this in mind and trowing out any affections, anonymity and currency together are destructive in many ways.

The world without humans is just stuff. Money is the abstraction of human value. It is the projection of awareness into something in a way that awareness can be converted trough its projection into the awareness of greater goods. When money lose its "names" it works only alienation. In this, money can be a bridge between people or the pit. Money without name force common good people to give real value to money, creating an idol out of paper at their cost. The value of money is the value alienated from these people forced to use it not as a mere projection but the value in itself. This goes on deeper. By depriving it from "names" and substance you trow it on desires and though objects, that develops on and on until war is peace.

When it sink into you, you gonna see the reality that a central bank that inflates unnamed money is sucking awareness out of population until complete alienation, that consumer debt rapid expands on this and political capability sinks is just a development.

So, you probably know what community development banks are. They are banks "committed to serve the underserved with checking, saving accs, micro-credit trough peer pressure" and sometimes access to local currency and group debt. There are some cases of total failure out there, but also of local development. The problems go from bad loan politics to "national reserve currency" degradation that pushes their not so resilient fundamentals down. What about using your economics and code expertise to consolidate a better model of sound money for these people that cant be idolized? You see, a model that by its nature cant be seized nor taxed nor degraded nor directed influenced top-down.

the next big jump in Bitcoin price will happen when the next big bank failure or financial crisis happens

I don't know why you think I don't want to help.

iamback, I have read about everything you posted.

Congratulations, you are probably more right them wrong and even the wrong is not caused by your intellect but your lack of humanity.

My main question now is if you want to help everyone or if you only feel bad that you havent been invited to the predator's party.

If the first case is correct I have some news for you. If world economy is going down to the most basic aspects, people gonna need secure decentralized community currencies backed on wherever they can hold and controlled by them for them. You can not win a central bank it is nature expressed. You have to lay eggs.

The banking system is Europe is F.U.B.A.R.[1]!

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/few-quick-reminders-why-nothing-has-been-fixed-europe-and-why-ltro-3-not-coming

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-03-16/italian-bed-debt-hits-record-197-billion-bank-lending-contracts-unprecedented-33-con

[1] Fucked Up Beyond All Repair