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Topic: Economic Devastation - page 122. (Read 504776 times)

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February 11, 2015, 01:00:32 PM
Their system is awesome because very few are utilizing the services that cost real money because they can't afford it so they die instead of being treated. Perhaps you think this is the way it should be?

Yes that is the ONLY way it IS. People have to be incentivized to save for their end of life. And to put effort into healthy living. Else suffer the outcome of their choices and priorities.

Society can attempt to change reality by expropriating with collectivized systems, but these INVARIABLY crash and burn. There are no exceptions since Mesopotamia.

The bankrupt universal health care systems of the West will end up killing everyone (when there is no more capital remaining to steal). We can't escape financial reality. Math is inviolable.

Water flows downhill. The path of least resistance wins. We don't live forever. Efficiency wins because life can't exist without friction. We can't live forever, because we couldn't exist if we did (try to figure that one out Wink).

Westerners are being taught the propaganda that they don't have to do self-responsibility because of the wealth disparity (high Gini index). This along with incorrect propaganda such as feminism, racism, anthropogenic climate change.

M-O-R-A-S-S

F.U.B.A.R.

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February 11, 2015, 12:30:07 PM
China will unleash its massive social capital onto to SE Asia and the countries which are aligned with Asia:

Asia is not trapped in the downward spiral of the coming Economic Devastation.

Huge amount of capital of every form here (stored money, strong family values, obedient erudite youth, brand new infrastructure, abundant youth seeking opportunity, low wages, low government liabilities, small governments as a share of GDP, etc).

http://armstrongeconomics.com/2015/02/11/australia-a-crisis-in-confidence/

Quote
The confidence in government is collapsing around the world. Politicians have been so used to bullshitting the people and doing as they like just raising taxes as the standard of living continues to decline. When we turn 2015.75, this is going to be one of the deepest economic turns because government has simply reduced the disposable income of the masses. There is a collapse in investment in the West and we are seeing China where its investment externally will exceed internally. This will turn the heads of everyone to China as the West continues to see rising taxes as governments try so desperately to hold on to power as their empires crumble.

The West has no more capital (it will destroy or chase away what remains productive).

As B.A.S. has admitted, the thinking (attitude and circumstance) of Westerners is aligned with spiraling the abyss. I have observed such attitudes in my own family in the USA. CoinCube has an exceptionally erudite nuclear family and a high quality career path, so afaik he probably doesn't associate with the lowlife underbelly of our society in the USA (thus I think he may not be aware how widespread the underbelly is and how intractable the ingrained attitudes are). I am intimately familiar with the lowlifes. I should send him a link to a facebook profile with 100s of "gang banger" attitude Likes.

B.A.S. you want to think this is not doom, because you don't want to be depressed because apparently you are trapped. Reality is a bitch. Maybe you could get out if you made it one of your high priority goals.

Instead you (and perhaps CoinCube also) will waste 5 years attempting to organize a morass, and end up drowning in the flood of the end game contagion.

Remember as empires die, they WATERFALL collapse in chaos, then it is too late to plan and act.

Normally I try to take the balanced view that the cup is half empty. But one thing I can see clearly that we can't reorganize a collective morass. Collective morasses invariably crash and burn. I covered that in the Petri dish analogy in the "Undertand Everything Fundamentally" essay linked from the OP of this thread.

As the medical costs of the boomers entering end of life accelerate, the WATERFALL economic+societal collapse will be approached with increasing acceleration.
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February 11, 2015, 10:26:07 AM
It's funny how no Americans want to pay for a more universal system, but when cancer comes knocking; all of a sudden everyone is willing to spend what it takes whether they can afford it or not.
...
What about when you're old: maybe you will need heart surgery, medications, cancer, a walking aid, a wheelchair... The list goes on. If you privatize all this and continue to make uninformed comments about the system, you will pay for these out of your own pocket. Are you going to do that? Are you willing to put 1/4 of your paycheck away for unknown costs now and into the future regarding your own health?

It's easy to say what you do, but you have no idea the full implications of this. I am in the healthcare profession. I see it everyday. Start thinking about your fellow MAN and not your next dollar.

Singapore has a very successful system because EVERYONE pays. The US is struggling because we are trying to transition to a system that can support everyone because the current system cannot. Of course the young are needed to get the transition started. Have a little compassion for your fellow man. Obama is not forcing the young en mass to empty their pockets to support the old and dying. It's not a perfect idea, but it has a sustainability factor to it that the current system doesn't.

% of Singapore GDP spent on health care = 3%
% of USA GDP spent on health care = 18%

Medical care in Singapore is generally considered excellent.

Singapore has a successfully system not because "everyone pays" but because everyone is forced to save and then spend their own money on health care rather then send the bill to "insurance" where is magically disappears for future generations to worry about. As mentioned above it is a system of personal responsibility. If an individual dies without spending all of their health care savings they can pass that on to their children. Also family members can use their own health savings to pay for an ill loved one. Government only steps in when individual resources are exhausted.

There is a massive power imbalance in the physician patient relationship that you touch on above in your examples of cancer and car crashes. People in these situations are not in a position where then can negotiate or make intelligent cost benefit analysis in regards to health care and are essentially forced to pay whatever the doctor charges. This is where there is a definite role for government to step in not with a blank check, but to forcefully pre-negotiate on behalf of such patients to control costs.

As someone who profits from the status quo it is you who I would challenge to start thinking about your fellow MAN not your next dollar. Do you truly think the system of health care which in the US is sustainable?  Obamacare may not be forcing the young en mass to empty their pockets en mass to support the old and dying now, but that is only because we are kicking the can down the road. The current system will do exactly that when taken to its logical conclusion. It is the inevitable result of flawed policy.

Physicians in the public realm do not set prices. The private insurance industry as well as the healthcare industry does. I agree with your points, but I don't exactly benefit from the status quo. I have to live within it. Each hospital has quotas now and has for some time. Physicians must see so many patients a day to justify their existence and employment at the clinic or hospital or you will be let go. Healthcare is a public profit industry run by private interests today in America.

I do not believe the current system is sustainable, but some of the Obamacare enactments will help forge a new direction for healthcare. A fundamental mind set change needs to happen (AKA a few generations need to die off with the newest generations begin taught a new way of thinking towards their health). What's troublesome for me is that the US healthcare system is not universally organized for set pricing. I don't get a larger salary because pricing increases. A heart surgery can run on the low end of $50K at a less known hospital to upwards of $150K at the best hospital with the most well known surgeon. In both cases, the docs know how to do the surgery, were trained identically; yet the price is different.

Healthcare is competitive in the US. Not only do they want you to pay for it, but on top of it; you have to pay TOP dollar to get expected care in these situations. This is not sustainable or dare I say 'fair' in a country where basic care is an unalienable right. I don't blame either side, but sometime long ago someone said basic healthcare was a right and now we are finding out how hard it is to live that statement when the "basic" component has been stretched to include everything from a routine physical to diabetes.

Massive overhauls need to happen with respect to surgeries, cancer, expensive treatments, ER visits, etc. This is where the money is being lost because the majority of Americans who get these procedures don't have a penny to pinch in regards to paying it off. If America operated like Singapore today, we would most likely have a healthier population who value their health more, but this is not the American mindset right now. Necessity is the mother of all invention.
legendary
Activity: 1946
Merit: 1055
February 11, 2015, 10:14:19 AM
It's funny how no Americans want to pay for a more universal system, but when cancer comes knocking; all of a sudden everyone is willing to spend what it takes whether they can afford it or not.
...
What about when you're old: maybe you will need heart surgery, medications, cancer, a walking aid, a wheelchair... The list goes on. If you privatize all this and continue to make uninformed comments about the system, you will pay for these out of your own pocket. Are you going to do that? Are you willing to put 1/4 of your paycheck away for unknown costs now and into the future regarding your own health?

It's easy to say what you do, but you have no idea the full implications of this. I am in the healthcare profession. I see it everyday. Start thinking about your fellow MAN and not your next dollar.

Singapore has a very successful system because EVERYONE pays. The US is struggling because we are trying to transition to a system that can support everyone because the current system cannot. Of course the young are needed to get the transition started. Have a little compassion for your fellow man. Obama is not forcing the young en mass to empty their pockets to support the old and dying. It's not a perfect idea, but it has a sustainability factor to it that the current system doesn't.

% of Singapore GDP spent on health care = 3%
% of USA GDP spent on health care = 18%

Medical care in Singapore is generally considered excellent.

Singapore has a successfully system not because "everyone pays" but because everyone is forced to save and then spend their own money on health care rather then send the bill to "insurance" where is magically disappears for future generations to worry about. As mentioned above it is a system of personal responsibility. If an individual dies without spending all of their health care savings they can pass that on to their children. Also family members can use their own health savings to pay for an ill loved one. Government only steps in when individual resources are exhausted.

There is a massive power imbalance in the physician patient relationship that you touch on above in your examples of cancer and car crashes. People in these situations are not in a position where then can negotiate or make intelligent cost benefit analysis in regards to health care and are essentially forced to pay whatever the doctor charges. This is where there is a role for government. Not to step in with a blank check, but rather to forcefully pre-negotiate on behalf of such patients to control costs.

As someone who profits from the status quo it is you who I would challenge to start thinking about your fellow MAN not your next dollar. Do you truly think the system of health care which in the US is sustainable?  Obamacare may not be forcing the young en mass to empty their pockets en mass to support the old and dying now, but that is only because we are kicking the can down the road. The current system will do exactly that when taken to its logical conclusion. It is the inevitable result of flawed policy.

full member
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February 11, 2015, 10:06:44 AM
Singapore pop: ~5 mil
US pop: ~320 mil

Do the math. Thats 60X more people to insure and cover if Singapore absorbed the US.
You're funny.  Scale should make it cheaper per head, yet you're arguing Singapore has the advantage because it's smaller.  No wonder America is fucked.

It's not that simple. Yes, scale would make it cheaper, but you're not taking into account the wealth disparity in the US. If you are poor, you cannot get more than basic medical services in Singapore because you cannot afford the extra fees. The majority of Americans are not wealthy. Singapore has an advantage because it has a small population of people with little to no money. The mean yearly income in 2011 for a Singaporean was ~$9K USD. Their system is awesome because very few are utilizing the services that cost real money because they can't afford it so they die instead of being treated. Perhaps you think this is the way it should be?

I'd urge you to take 5 seconds to think before you chastise your supposed 'brilliance' which really is just masking your ignorance.
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February 11, 2015, 10:04:05 AM
Everyone in the USA is going to pay for themself or perish. That is how the end game of socialism works. Study Nazi Germany. Read my post again, I expanded it.

If a citizen of Singapore needs more than basic care, they have to pay extra.

Exactly. Element of self-responsibility.

Solvent insurance can't be actuarially structured to be open ended to pay for $million end of life strategies. And that is not the only point of corruption in the USA system.

P.S. Filipinos die of cancer without even morphine. Not $50,000 medical bill. Just death and rejuvenation of youth. Maybe Boomers would spend more time exercising and change their diets if they knew they were responsible for the cost of their end of life.

I don't think it is as doom and gloom as you forecast, but I do agree things need to/will change. The average person is one catastrophe from financial ruin. Trying to educate the US populace on the benefits of saving some income for this eventual accident would be nearly impossible let alone even trying to convince people to stop buying so many things they don't need with money they don't have. Americans today are not known for their self responsibility. It's not in the culture anymore. Many young people want to be individualistic and think short sighted.

 You make a very good point on Boomer lifestyle, but this most likely won't change. In the same breath, their lifestyle choices are not the root of the problem. America is a very different place than it was even 50 years ago. People are living way longer (~70s-80s on average) which taxes the system incredibly.

The Filipino way of life is interesting and with great merits. America doesn't have a death and rejuvenation of youth culture. We have a every-man-for-himself, fuck all, take all, live forever mentality and culture. The only think Americans invest in these days is anything with a larger dollar sign at the front of it, definitely not next generation's youth or out of personal responsibility.
donator
Activity: 668
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February 11, 2015, 09:26:03 AM
Singapore pop: ~5 mil
US pop: ~320 mil

Do the math. Thats 60X more people to insure and cover if Singapore absorbed the US.
You're funny.  Scale should make it cheaper per head, yet you're arguing Singapore has the advantage because it's smaller.  No wonder America is fucked.
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Activity: 98
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February 11, 2015, 09:11:58 AM
Everyone in the USA is going to pay for themself or perish. That is how the end game of socialism works. Study Nazi Germany. Read my post again, I expanded it.

If a citizen of Singapore needs more than basic care, they have to pay extra.

Exactly. Element of self-responsibility.

Solvent insurance can't be actuarially structured to be open ended to pay for $million end of life strategies. And that is not the only point of corruption in the USA system.

P.S. Filipinos die of cancer without even morphine. Not $50,000 medical bill. Just death and rejuvenation of youth. Maybe Boomers would spend more time exercising and change their diets if they knew they were responsible for the cost of their end of life.
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February 11, 2015, 09:09:10 AM
Singapore pop: ~5 mil
US pop: ~320 mil

Do the math. Thats 60X more people to insure and cover if Singapore absorbed the US. You still think their system could support that? It's successful in part because they are a smaller country and because their people have to pay. If a citizen of Singapore needs more than basic care, they have to pay extra. There is a fee structure.

Having money helps in all situations (being wealthy), but you cannot blindly discard those who don't make a lot of money per year in your ideas because... well just because.
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February 11, 2015, 08:57:00 AM
B.A.S. I learned not to argue with socialists. Rather watch you crash and burn. And no, I am not paying for your mistakes. You will die in poverty. I will cast aside my USA citizenship instead of agreeing to expropriate my (limited remaining) productivity for your mistakes.

The Boomer generation was so selfish and didn't even raise our X-generation with close families. We had to look to our grandparents for that. And now we've struggled our entire life and you expect us to pay for your retirement which you squandered on the high life of debt? I will care for my mother, but not everybody else's mother and father via taxation (expropriation) because for one it is a terminal downward spiral of corruption and mismanagement of funds. Read...

http://armstrongeconomics.com/2013/10/01/what-socialism-destroyed-govt-shutdown/

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What Socialism Destroyed

What must be stated openly is that the “New Deal” of Roosevelt has actually destroyed the very fabric that formed society that nobody wants to look at no less discuss.

For centuries, people had children to provide for their own retirement. Family units were the social structure. The sad part of socialism is how this family unit was fundamentally destroyed by socialism. Once social security was created, children were relieved of the burden of taking care of their parents – that became government’s job. People were told to save conservatively. They salted away money often in government bonds. Now government has been so fiscally irresponsible, they have to keep interest rates low not to stimulate the economy, but to control their own perpetual deficits.

The retired can no longer live off of their savings. Their home has proven to be anything other than the savings for retirement as annual property taxes alone approach the cost of the house in the 1950s. Pensions are insolvent and taxes only rise perpetually. It now takes two incomes for a family to survive. The New Deal has failed on every level.

CoinCube already explained to you that in Singapore the system has an element of self-responsibility and the government is still a small % of the GDP, i.e. lower level of corruption and not so fat cats. For example, in the USA the insurance companies are raking in the corruption. And because the population is younger, less sick (Asian diet instead McUpSizeIt and with immigrants from SE Asia that eat native foods), and not able to choose extremely expensive medical procedures charged to every body else (Westerners are so entitled they think they deserve a $million spent on end of life medical care...as I said, eugenics and assisted suicide will come once the system is bankrupted).

http://armstrongeconomics.com/2015/02/11/pensions-big-bang/



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What he fails to address is that the taxes are rising on the Middle Class to pay for funds that were outrageously set up to begin with.

I work without pay back in the 1990s to try to save Social Security by privatizing management. Had we simply invested when the Dow was 3500 back then, we would not be in the dark crisis we now face. What Taibbi fails to appreciate is there are places worse than Wall Street – it is call Pennsylvania Avenue in Washington DC.
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February 11, 2015, 08:54:54 AM
Quote from: Iamback
Sorry B.A.S you are not understanding.  

The Prime Minister focused on sustainability stressing the need for individuals to take personal responsibility and save for their own healthcare (Singapore currently requires all citizens to save 20% of their income in health savings accounts which the can tap if they become ill). He stresses the need for government to keep costs contained and not shift expenses to future generations by promising things that cannot be delivered. He warns that if the government succumbs to the temptation to promise benefits while leaving bills to the next generation it will hurt Singaporeans in the long run.

Obama's speech is miles apart. Here you find no talk of tradeoffs, personal responsibility or costs. Instead all you see is a litany of open ended unfunded promises.
1) Obama promises that those who have insurance can keep their current plan
2) Obama promises that no insurance company can deny you insurance coverage no matter how much treating you will cost.
3) Obama promises that there will be no limits on how much insurance companies will have to pay to take care of you
4) Obama promises that that individuals out of pocket expenses will be strictly limited

What is brushed aside is who pays for it all. We are only told that everyone must do their part "especially the young and the healthy".

Obama's first promise has already been broken as millions of people have been forced to transition from low cost health insurance plans that insurance companies were forced to cancel to more expensive Obamacare alternatives.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2013/nov/06/barack-obama/barack-obama-says-what-hed-said-was-you-could-keep/

The rest of the promises will over time eventually prove equally false because you cannot promise the impossible. If you set up a system with open ended liabilities and no cost controls there is no one to blame but yourself when you go bankrupt. The only question is how far will the government go when making sure everyone pays "their part".

Iamback, this is America with one of its most entitled generations coming of age (millennials). A massive die-off is in works and will be over the next 20 years from the WWII boom generation. The system in place to take care of America's healthcare needs cannot support this die off. Proper planning was not done back in the late 40s to supersede what we have today. Somebody needs to pay for this and at the end of the day, whether you like it or not, you're going to pay for it (I am not saying this makes it right).

Healthcare in Singapore is under the Ministry's control. Their care is UNIVERSAL. The US does NOT have a UNIVERSAL system. Ie. technically you should be responsible for saving and paying your own care or finding an employer to do so on your behalf. Furthermore, healthcare pricing in Singapore is set by the Ministry. They decide how much things cost. The USG does not.

It's funny how no Americans want to pay for a more universal system, but when cancer comes knocking; all of a sudden everyone is willing to spend what it takes whether they can afford it or not. How about that massive car accident that causes a bill of $50K. Are you saving for this? You better be if you are bitching about paying. Do you have $10K plus in extra savings per year to pay for your own plan? How about all those vaccines you may have had as a child; they are $250-1000 a pop uncovered. Which "person" do you think paid for this? How about that time you got your wisdom teeth pulled at the dentist? That's a $2800-5000 procedure if your teeth are impacted and you are not covered by health insurance. This is just the basics.

What about when you're old: maybe you will need heart surgery, medications, cancer, a walking aid, a wheelchair... The list goes on. If you privatize all this and continue to make uninformed comments about the system, you will pay for these out of your own pocket. Are you going to do that? Are you willing to put 1/4 of your paycheck away for unknown costs now and into the future regarding your own health?

It's easy to say what you do, but you have no idea the full implications of this. I am in the healthcare profession. I see it everyday. Start thinking about your fellow MAN and not your next dollar.

Singapore has a very successful system because EVERYONE pays. The US is struggling because we are trying to transition to a system that can support everyone because the current system cannot. Of course the young are needed to get the transition started. Have a little compassion for your fellow man. Obama is not forcing the young en mass to empty their pockets to support the old and dying. It's not a perfect idea, but it has a sustainability factor to it that the current system doesn't.

America is not a free for all and it never has been. You cannot leave basic healthcare on the private level. People die and countries fall apart. This is something everybody must do their part in. There are no fees or huge premiums if you have a job in America that has a healthcare plan. As always, costs only add up for those who use the system a lot.
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Activity: 98
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February 11, 2015, 04:59:25 AM
Armstrong chimes in about my recent post about the rise of Asia and the decline of the West.

http://armstrongeconomics.com/2015/02/11/china-moving-to-replace-usa-as-financial-capitol-of-world/

Quote
China Moving to Replace USA as Financial Capitol of World

A vital step in the shift of the Financial Capitol of the World moving from the West to the East, is becoming visible if you pay attention. Our model has revealed that the Financial Capitol of the World moves with the rise and fall of nations. China on the verge of becoming a net exporter of capital, it has already overtaken its Western counterparts as a primary source of credit for the developing world. And from this financial prominence, China will gradually exercise political influence that will shadow the United States in the decades ahead. We are at the dawn of a new era – the rise of Asia.

...

China will become the new Financial Capitol of the World as the West destroys themselves with raising taxes to fund impossible governmental consumption of wealth. The simple math shows the West cannot possibly survive the conclusion of this Private Wave in 2032. China uses and believes in cycles. The West believes only in a straight line.
member
Activity: 98
Merit: 10
February 11, 2015, 03:30:05 AM

Never quote the HuffPo. I repeat, never. They are not a credible source of information for anything other than what the Kardashians are wearing.

The video linked on that page is undeniable. That the video is linked from a HuffPo website is irrelevant. You can find that video all over the internet. If you haven't watched it, you should. It is the footage leaked to WikiLeaks by Bradley Manning (who was imprisoned and probably tortured because of it).

P.S. I will be back to address your ignorance of statistical racial facts.


Update: Education for you on statistical racial facts:

http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=6160
http://blog.jim.com/culture/guns-murder-and-race/
http://blog.jim.com/politics/blacks-are-stupid/
http://blog.jim.com/culture/the-damage-caused-by-diversity/
http://blog.jim.com/economics/people-of-negative-economic-value/
http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/his-panic/
member
Activity: 98
Merit: 10
February 11, 2015, 02:59:32 AM
Back on the topic of technological unemployment, Armstrong has mirrored the essay I wrote in 2012 or 2013:

http://armstrongeconomics.com/2015/02/10/the-risk-of-artificial-intelligence/

http://unheresy.com/Information%20Is%20Alive.html

He is correct that entropy (randomness) of a program is limited to its author, which was my point.

Within our field of expertise we are smarter than Bill Gates, Stephen Hawking, Elon Musk, Bill Joy, and Ray Kurzweil (among many other incorrect Malthusians).
On the subject of AI, if biological intelligence is possible, what would preclude machine intelligence from being possible? I think it's rather early to suggest that strong AI is impossible, considering that we don't even fully understand how the human brain works.

Sigh. You are entirely missing the point of entropy. How the brain works has nothing to do with the fact that every human brain is unique, because it's creator (procreation) was unique.

We can program a computer to emulate any task we can define. But we can't give a single computer the same collective entropy of the human race. In other words, each computer program will be a reflection of it's creator and thus not omniscient. Computers can't become all knowing any more than one human can't become all knowing, because each human is unique and will do random actions, thoughts, emotions, etc.. It is this entropy which gives the human race resiliency for there is one or more humans able to adapt to each unique situation.

Think about this. That evolution is slow and humans are slower than computers, is what enables the entropy to be greater. The smorgasbord has to simmer in the pot to produce the high entropy offspring of not only the genome but also the environment.

Think about this. Because the speed-of-light is not infinite, it is impossible to be omniscient because remote information can't transfer in real-time to a single observer, i.e. an omniscient computer is impossible (incongruent with the fundamental structure of the universe). I made this point numerous times in my blog (<--- must read) and my other past writings.

My blog explains why without friction (non-infinite speed-of-light) the past, present, and future would collapse into a single point in time, and we would not exist. Cycles (periodic waves) are a required outcome of friction. I cover that in my linked blog. This is why Armstrong's cyclical models are possible (the fundamental matter of the universe is periodicity).

I (as AnonyMint) had a debate about this in the "No Money Exists Without Majority" thread.
legendary
Activity: 1946
Merit: 1055
February 10, 2015, 11:27:04 PM
Singapore Prime Minister Lee gave a speach about health care today.
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/4-shifts-in-singapore-s/1648186.html

Compare his speech to one given by president Obama in 2009. Its fairly clear which of these societies is in trouble just from the content of these speeches.
...
The two speeches are miles apart:

PM Hsien is beautifully practicing the art of obscurity; saying a whole lot without really saying anything. Very common in propaganda.

Pres. Obama on the other hand has laid out specifics in his speech. He covers the insured (existing), those who may want to be insured (small business, etc.) and those who don't think they need to be (the young/healthy).

Sorry B.A.S you are not understanding.  

The Prime Minister focused on sustainability stressing the need for individuals to take personal responsibility and save for their own healthcare (Singapore currently requires all citizens to save 20% of their income in health savings accounts which the can tap if they become ill). He stresses the need for government to keep costs contained and not shift expenses to future generations by promising things that cannot be delivered. He warns that if the government succumbs to the temptation to promise benefits while leaving bills to the next generation it will hurt Singaporeans in the long run.

Obama's speech is miles apart. Here you find no talk of tradeoffs, personal responsibility or costs. Instead all you see is a litany of open ended unfunded promises.
1) Obama promises that those who have insurance can keep their current plan
2) Obama promises that no insurance company can deny you insurance coverage no matter how much treating you will cost.
3) Obama promises that there will be no limits on how much insurance companies will have to pay to take care of you
4) Obama promises that that individuals out of pocket expenses will be strictly limited

What is brushed aside is who pays for it all. We are only told that everyone must do their part "especially the young and the healthy".

Obama's first promise has already been broken as millions of people have been forced to transition from low cost health insurance plans that insurance companies were forced to cancel to more expensive Obamacare alternatives.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2013/nov/06/barack-obama/barack-obama-says-what-hed-said-was-you-could-keep/

The rest of the promises will over time eventually prove equally false because you cannot promise the impossible. If you set up a system with open ended liabilities and no cost controls there is no one to blame but yourself when you go bankrupt. The only question is how far will the government go when making sure everyone pays "their part".
full member
Activity: 420
Merit: 117
February 10, 2015, 07:42:07 PM
The USA is inundated with blacks and Latinos (Filipinos and other non-white cultures) which lack self-discipline and are not erudite. Even most or many of the whites are copying the gang banger, low-life culture. For example, note the high percentage of youth in the USA that do some drugs, or that smoke in Europe. The high quality social capital in the West will be hunted down by these parasites via the socialism.

You're entitled to your opinion, but understand making blanket personal judgments regarding other ethnicities (and their supposed work ethics) makes you appear unknowledgeable and juvenile. Don't do this. Additionally, trying to draw parallels between capitalism and the apparent denigration of it via socialist parasites supports this. Whether you believe what you are writing or not, posting this here serves no one.

Quote from: iamback
The worst possible citizenship to have now is USA, because the USA has the strongest government, military, and a large tax base to expropriate. If you have this citizenship, try to get out of it while you still can. Europe at least doesn't tax its citizens who reside abroad. Europe may collapse into the night without hunting its citizens abroad and its has a withering tax base unable to fund a military, but the USA is going to be hunting its citizens even with unseen stealth drones from the air. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/21/bradley-manning-leaks_n_3788126.html

Never quote the HuffPo. I repeat, never. They are not a credible source of information for anything other than what the Kardashians are wearing.

Quote from: iamback
OBAMACARE was perhaps the most toxic enactment ever to be implemented by the Democrats using the poor to raises taxes on the working class – not even the “rich”. The left-wing press that ridicule the Republicans for trying to repeal it deserve what they are going to get – much higher taxes and the future of their children will be destroyed. Not only will OBAMACARE cap small business from expanding due to its massive penalties, but it will soon begin to tax benefits employers give workers - ALL WORKERS. That is correct. At the discretion of the government, they will be able to move the line at which any benefit that exceeds some arbitrary number not adjusted for inflation will become taxable income. The Obama secret agenda has been to raise taxes in every possible manner and OBAMACARE was the typical political way to get people to cheer for raising their own taxes. Obama wants to personally raise taxes back to 70% but without the deductions and to include ALL benefits as income.

Healthcare is a very difficult topic to argue. Whether you like it or not, we (U.S. citizens) live in a land where the right to healthcare is law. You cannot be turned down from the ER. Someone must pay for this. Who do you suppose that someone is? I am not trying to argue Obamacare one way or another, all I am insinuating is that if everyone is entitled to medical care, then who should pay for de facto?

Quote from: iamback
Civil Asset Forfeiture Police Corruption Exposed

The police have become outright criminals and can confiscate people’s property and keep it for themselves. This is one of the best explanations I have ever seen. It correctly states that the legal action is against the property – NOT YOU!

Yes, they can do this. The burden of proof is on the State in order to confiscate things in cases of criminal activity. Further, the judicial system is generally run on precedent. Yes, there are many obscure laws on the books dating from historical perspectives, but as you can see (with regard to your link), the cases were dropped.

Quote from: iamback
Bureaucrats[/s]Governments Have Been Corrupt Since the Start

The greatest problem with government is how it consumes capital until it kills the private sector. This has been the course of every government – power corrupts universally. The bureaucracy has also gamed the private sector for personal gain. They currently are exploiting of the people through Civil Asset Forfeiture which is reminiscent of the Roman legions who just began to sack their own cities to pay themselves.

Quoting verbatim large quantities of someone else's writing does not make you right or authoritative. The question is, do you actually believe this or is it because some economics blog site says so? The real economist named Martin Armstrong has been in swaths of legal trouble over his lifetime for things he speaks violently against. I urge you to be less apocalyptic. It's easy to say things suck or that government is bad from an armchair, but enacting policy is difficult and very subjective. Instead of being violently against one side, it's better to figure out how it works and adjust your positioning to benefit from it.

Didn't mean to nitpick, you make some good points and foster a lively discussion.
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February 10, 2015, 06:51:37 PM
Back on the topic of technological unemployment, Armstrong has mirrored the essay I wrote in 2012 or 2013:

http://armstrongeconomics.com/2015/02/10/the-risk-of-artificial-intelligence/

http://unheresy.com/Information%20Is%20Alive.html

He is correct that entropy (randomness) of a program is limited to its author, which was my point.

Within our field of expertise we are smarter than Bill Gates, Stephen Hawking, Elon Musk, Bill Joy, and Ray Kurzweil (among many other incorrect Malthusians).
On the subject of AI, if biological intelligence is possible, what would preclude machine intelligence from being possible? I think it's rather early to suggest that strong AI is impossible, considering that we don't even fully understand how the human brain works.
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Activity: 98
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February 10, 2015, 01:39:05 PM
Back on the topic of technological unemployment, Armstrong has mirrored the essay I wrote in 2012 or 2013:

http://armstrongeconomics.com/2015/02/10/the-risk-of-artificial-intelligence/

http://unheresy.com/Information%20Is%20Alive.html

He is correct that entropy (randomness) of a program is limited to its author, which was my point.

Within our field of expertise we are smarter than Bill Gates, Stephen Hawking, Elon Musk, Bill Joy, and Ray Kurzweil (among many other incorrect Malthusians).
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February 10, 2015, 10:33:21 AM
NotLambChop, there is USA border control on our (I am USA citizen) side of the border and the TSA or border control in the airports (trains and other mass transportion). There are "do not fly" lists. The infrastructure is set up for a massive ramp up as explained below. Also the USA won't only go after wealth at borders, it is also using FATCA, unseen sky high lethal drones (no court order required for executive branch to execute a USA citizen), and other means to take out those who try to escape the expropriation.

CoinCube and B.A.S. it is impossible for the USA to fund what will be an egregiously spiraling socialism (as the USA economy turns down after October 2015 then the number of people dependent of the government will skyrocket, Armstrong is projecting 25 - 50% unemployment in the USA no later than 2023) without expropriating the middle class and pensions. Throughout history this is the way empires die.

Please remember that it got so bad in Rome that the population of the city was reduced from 1.3 million to 30,000, and owners abandoned their land because the taxes were higher than the profit they could earn. This time around the USA is planning to not let any citizen escape. A USA citizen is the property (slave) of the powers-that-be which run the country. Sooner or later you will realize this is true, hopefully not too late to act. What debt giveth, it taketh back in the end. Middle class (or higher) income earned now in the debt system is not yours. It will be expropriated. It must be. Just study the math, factoring in the fact that as the USA expropriates the wealthy they flee with their capital which drives investment and the economy down and then the expropriation creeps down to expropriate the middle class. This downward spiral for example reached genocide in Nazi Germany, because Hilter's Universal Health Care couldn't be funded, thus Goebbels created the propaganda excuse to exterminate the Jews, handicapped, etc.. The very wealthy can escape to alternative citizenships and position their investments and capital outside of harm's way. The middle class is trapped. (Note the USA will break up once the stage of violence is reached, and will not proceed to the abyss of genocide for those who have guns and/or organization. Those who don't have guns and remain within the bankrupt socialism cancer may experience eugenics, especially assisted suicide will probably become an option in the Obamacare at some point)

Note my salient point (in my prior post) that the USA has a large productive private sector yet also a large underbelly. This implicates the USA is the most dangerous in terms of what is coming because it has to expropriate to fund that underbelly and it has the military and NSA might to do so...a wounded Godzilla is more dangerous than a healthy mouse...

The USA is inundated with blacks and Latinos (Filipinos and other non-white cultures) which lack self-discipline and are not erudite. Even most or many of the whites are copying the gang banger, low-life culture. For example, note the high percentage of youth in the USA that do some drugs, or that smoke in Europe. The high quality social capital in the West will be hunted down by these parasites via the socialism.

...

The worst possible citizenship to have now is USA, because the USA has the strongest government, military, and a large tax base to expropriate. If you have this citizenship, try to get out of it while you still can. Europe at least doesn't tax its citizens who reside abroad. Europe may collapse into the night without hunting its citizens abroad and its has a withering tax base unable to fund a military, but the USA is going to be hunting its citizens even with unseen stealth drones from the air.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/21/bradley-manning-leaks_n_3788126.html

The politicians start with the propaganda "tax the rich", but then the laws actually shaft the middle class up the ass. We already have numerous examples of this transition underway. Here are a few...

  • http://armstrongeconomics.com/2015/02/06/tsa-to-arrest-anyone-charged-with-any-crime-trying-to-come-or-leave-including-taxes/

    Quote
    First it was FATCA hunting Americans with any assets overseas whatsoever. Now just two days after taking charge of the committee chairing the House Homeland Security subcommittee hearing, U.S. Rep. John Katko introduced two bills. He is looking to effectively close the borders using terrorism as the excuse as always to hunt down Americans. Katko is a former federal prosecutor.  So he knows precisely what he is doing writing a law that is so broad, that anyone suspected of a crime cannot leave the country. This is any crime [no matter how petty]. Keeping gold in a safe deposit box is money laundering carrying up to 25 years in prison.

    Katko’s bill will direct the TSA Office of Inspection Accountability Act (H.R. 719), requiring TSA to now conduct criminal Investigators spending at least 50% of their time “investigating, apprehending, or detaining individuals suspected of committing a crime.” This bill will now result in the arrest of anyone for any alleged crime whatsoever and that will [also] apply to taxes. Katko is constructing a highly dangerous version of the Berlin Wall around all American citizens. He is converting the TSA into a police force less concerned about air safety and focused more on catching anyone the government can argue violates some law federal or state. It is so broad, this would apply to domestic disputes as well.
  • http://armstrongeconomics.com/2014/04/22/the-cadillac-tax-obama-will-all-your-benefits-as-part-of-obamacare/

    Quote
    The Cadillac Tax – Obama Will TAX All Your Benefits as part of Obamacare

    Quote
    ...the greatest fraud these lawyer-politicians pull off every time is tell you they are doing something good for a poor shmuck and the real agenda is to get the rest of the people. In Australia they called it the luxury tax that they would go after the fur coats, French wines, and Ferrari sports cars. The dumb people cheered – ya – go get ‘em. The tax passed and what was included? All electrical products.

    OBAMACARE was perhaps the most toxic enactment ever to be implemented by the Democrats using the poor to raises taxes on the working class – not even the “rich”. The left-wing press that ridicule the Republicans for trying to repeal it deserve what they are going to get – much higher taxes and the future of their children will be destroyed. Not only will OBAMACARE cap small business from expanding due to its massive penalties, but it will soon begin to tax benefits employers give workers - ALL WORKERS. That is correct. At the discretion of the government, they will be able to move the line at which any benefit that exceeds some arbitrary number not adjusted for inflation will become taxable income. The Obama secret agenda has been to raise taxes in every possible manner and OBAMACARE was the typical political way to get people to cheer for raising their own taxes. Obama wants to personally raise taxes back to 70% but without the deductions and to include ALL benefits as income.
  • https://www.google.com/search?q=site:armstrongeconomics.com+Civil+Asset+Forfeiture

    Quote
    Civil Asset Forfeiture Police Corruption Exposed

    The police have become outright criminals and can confiscate people’s property and keep it for themselves. This is one of the best explanations I have ever seen. It correctly states that the legal action is against the property – NOT YOU!

    Quote
    Civil Asset Forfeiture Scam – State Legalizes Marijuana Feds Confiscate your Home for Possession of just $10 worth

    The government position in Civil Asset Forfeiture is they do not have to prove you did anything. In fact, even if you are charged with a crime and are acquitted by a jury, they still confiscate your property for legally people are never found “innocent”, they are found “not guilty.” This gives government the moral justification to just take your stuff.

    The real interesting development is that states may legalize marijuana, but it remains a federal crime. They do not prosecute the people in those states, but for $10 worth of marijuana they can confiscate your house and never have to charge you. Police are pulling people over leaving states where they sell marijuana and if the police find marijuana in the car, there goes the car. They get to confiscate your car for it is the marijuana that constitutes a crime – not you personally. What is yours, is really theirs.

    Quote
    BureaucratsGovernments Have Been Corrupt Since the Start

    The greatest problem with government is how it consumes capital until it kills the private sector. This has been the course of every government – power corrupts universally. The bureaucracy has also gamed the private sector for personal gain. They currently are exploiting of the people through Civil Asset Forfeiture which is reminiscent of the Roman legions who just began to sack their own cities to pay themselves.

    Pictured above are “Fouree Denarii” or Claudius (41-54AD) a member of the Julio-Claudian line just prior to Nero.  These are genuine coin dies struck on copper planchets silver plated. The people inside the mint were pocketing the real coins and producing a small quantity of debased coins illegally. This demonstrates that corruption within Rome was systemic and it kept growing. This is like the missing $2 trillion from the Pentagon budget that Rumsfeld promised would be investigated 1 day before 911 attack where the missile or whatever struck the only room in the Pentagon where the evidence was stored. What amazing coincidence.
  • http://armstrongeconomics.com/2015/01/28/cops-going-after-kids-shoveling-snow-they-want-their-cut/

    Quote
    Cops Going After Kids Shoveling Snow – They Want Their Cut

    Ok – believe it or not, this really shows how the new younger generation of police are anti-society and just insanely pro-government beyond common sense. With cities and municipalities dead broke, confiscating cash from people pretending it is somehow tainted without any proof under Civil Asset Forfeiture was bad enough. Now they are really going over the top. This is not an isolated incident. Towns in the North East are targeting teenagers who traditionally made money during winter shoveling snow.

    The police even in Philadelphia are targeting kids as they are in New Jersey. Many towns demand a license with paperwork and fees of $50+ to be paid to shovel snow. These corrupt politicians are hungry for money and any possible piece of loose change they want to grab. Just how far will society allow this type of corruption go before they throw-the-bums-out?

    From FATCA to targeting teenagers shoveling snow, these people are destroying everything that held society together. They look upon us as the great unwashed – just scum to be exploited. This is really going way too far.


CoinCube I have a different model of what is fundamentally changing, which is why I see China continuing to rise and Shanghai become the new New York of the financial world by 2032.

You are modeling top-down metrics, e.g. the quality of the governance. I assert that we are moving into peaking government and top-down, debt-driven economies. What is rising to take it's place is the chaotic, leaderless, bottom-up Private sector. This is Armstrong's 51.6 year Private wave which will complete by 2033. Asia has governments which are 15 - 25% of the GDP versus 50 - 75+% in the West (and the West is in a cancerous spiral that will drive that figure closer to 100% before violence and break up of government ensues).

http://armstrongeconomics.com/2014/12/04/china-surpassed-usa-as-largest-economy-by-output/


China has transitioned from a fully state micro-managed economy to a predominantly (75%?) decentralized bottom-up economy with the Communist Party only about 20 - 25% of GDP versus the Communist Party in the USA (Democrats and Republicans) being 50 - 75% of the economy (as I had extensively documented in prior posts). In the new China, you don't raise your head above the poppy seeds, and you are left alone to do bottom-up capitalism.

Singapore is rising to be the London of the new financial world after the West collapses. Meaning more on banking and a haven for the wealthy. Singapore's population is small and it's domestic economy is not as significant as it's role as a banking and transshipment hub (to hide profits from the Communist Party).

The top-down Communist Party is withering. The bottom-up (decentralized) capitalist economy is rising in its place. Decentralized crypto-currencies can rise along with this process if they are targeted to the correct expanding markets (not overtly[1] to anonymity which is probably unrealistic and targets those who want to store static capital that doesn't move and expand the GDP).

Here in the Philippines the government is small and underfunded (only 16% of GDP), so you do what you want, even drive on the "illegal" side of the road and ignoring building permitting process if not in the city center, etc..

Don't miss the boat (or airplane or train). Trajectory is important. Don't stay stuck in the decadent West too long. Milk it while you can, but formulate a plan for the future and your children. The transition in the USA to a break up into productive and unproductive sectors is going to be lethal and impoverishing. Better to leave and come back after the fireworks. That is my plan.

Singapore has very highly rated schools. If prefer a more Western culture that is aligned with Asia, then Australia and New Zealand come to mind, but emigration is expensive there. There is actually another option for emigrating to some other countries which doesn't require any money. PM me if you want to know. I won't be answering others who ask me, sorry.

Example of Chinese research:

http://armstrongeconomics.com/2015/02/09/we-may-now-live-for-200-years-omg-we-really-need-political-reform/

[1] Anonymity by default (and optional) in crypto-currency that is not touted as its main feature might be tenable, and actually may be necessary to avoid the debilitating issue of tainted coins (destroys fungibility which is a critically required property of currency). I am still analyzing this from a technical, political, and marketing perspective.
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