El Salvador retirees protest against Bitcoin as legal tender

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Quote from: bryant.coleman on October 04, 2021, 01:42:04 AM

By now it is clear that they are protesting just because they don't understand about Bitcoin. Elderly pensioners are very easy to manipulate, as they always listen to rumors and propaganda without any basis. In this case, they have no reasons to worry about, since the government is only adding one additional option for payment. It is not taking away any of the existing options. But the regime has failed in making the citizens aware of this. If the people really understand what the new law does, then they will have no reason to protest.

I think that the citizens who are most against it is because they do not trust the economy that BTC represents, they may have a financial culture where "Safe" is the right thing to do, that is, they trust stable things, where there is no volatility, they They see more disadvantages than advantages in BTC, they do not see the possibility that if they have an investment in USD it can increase when BTC rises, they think that their money will be devalued, it is understandable. The government must take training measures and financial culture of BTC, so that people do not stand against the only tool that will make them financially free and leave a traditional economic system where debt is the main denominator, I think it is a question of time while people enlighten themselves.

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Quote from: mdgabrielzim on October 15, 2021, 12:09:33 PM

Exactly, as long as bitcoin doesn't stabilize, it is very risky to put the income of people who probably only have the retirement to survive. I think the government should first propose to BTC retirees and not stick it down their throats.

In El Salvador, the pension payments are being made in US Dollar. Payments in Bitcoin are being made only of the recipient specifically ask for it. And those who received their payments in Bitcoin have witnessed a steep jump in their amount that they got. Three weeks back, Bitcoin was trading at $41,000 per coin. Now it is trading at $61,600 per coin, which represents an increase of 50%. On the other hand, USD is currently undergoing massive inflation and those who have their wealth in the form of US Dollar will soon find themselves in trouble.

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Quote from: tyz on October 15, 2021, 06:41:31 AM

Quote from: bryant.coleman on October 04, 2021, 01:42:04 AM

By now it is clear that they are protesting just because they don't understand about Bitcoin.

Maybe they even have more idea about it than we do. I mean, they get their pension paid as Bitcoin. Even the retirees haven't missed how volatile Bitcoin can be and accordingly how volatile the value of their pension can be. Pensions used to be paid only in U.S. dollars (as this was El Salvadors currency since they give up their own national currency). While that may not have been optimal for the government to pay in such a hard currency, the retirees knew what value they would receive.

Exactly, as long as bitcoin doesn't stabilize, it is very risky to put the income of people who probably only have the retirement to survive. I think the government should first propose to BTC retirees and not stick it down their throats.

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Quote from: bryant.coleman on October 04, 2021, 01:42:04 AM

By now it is clear that they are protesting just because they don't understand about Bitcoin.

Maybe they even have more idea about it than we do. I mean, they get their pension paid as Bitcoin. Even the retirees haven't missed how volatile Bitcoin can be and accordingly how volatile the value of their pension can be. Pensions used to be paid only in U.S. dollars (as this was El Salvadors currency since they give up their own national currency). While that may not have been optimal for the government to pay in such a hard currency, the retirees knew what value they would receive.

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Although President Nayib Bukele promised that the measure would benefit the people and save the country nearly $400 million in remittance fees, ensuring more instant and secure transactions. However, a large part of the population including retirees, veterans, pensioners with disabilities, and workers in Salvador are against bitcoin, worried that the government will start paying their pensions in cash. bitcoin in lieu of the US dollar; They worry Bitcoin will facilitate open corruption and the activities of drug, weapon and human traffickers, blackmailers and tax evaders. It will also cause currency chaos, affect people's wages, pensions and savings, damage many micro, small and medium enterprises, affect farming families and affect middle class.

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Quote from: STT on October 04, 2021, 01:32:18 AM

Im not sure how the retirees lose from more then 1 form of legal tender, thats part of what drives BTC in its usage as its not produced in any one country alone.

For a country, that is not a good thing.

If you rely on a currency that is minted outside your borders, that leaves you vulnerable to foreign interference.

In this situation, Bitcoin merely fulfills the role that the USD had in El Salvador's economy as a way for foreign agents (e.g the US government and Bitcoin Whales respectively) to interfere with its political stability.

Basically, this country has become the Bitch of Bitcoin as it is getting fucked.

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Quote from: STT on October 04, 2021, 01:32:18 AM

Im not sure how the retirees lose from more then form of legal tender, its not like coins were outlawed people can keep using cash like most countries. Coins do have a cost not just in making of them but also handling costs are ongoing in an economy and banks will charge most businesses for this service. Paper money literally wears out and breaks quite easily, dollars in use even digitally definitely have a cost and cost inflation to their use where the value is never 100% true to its original introduction to the country. The greatest cost of using US dollar is not seen close to its production but in the far ends where it circulates globally, thats part of what drives BTC in its usage as its not produced in any one country alone.

By now it is clear that they are protesting just because they don't understand about Bitcoin. Elderly pensioners are very easy to manipulate, as they always listen to rumors and propaganda without any basis. In this case, they have no reasons to worry about, since the government is only adding one additional option for payment. It is not taking away any of the existing options. But the regime has failed in making the citizens aware of this. If the people really understand what the new law does, then they will have no reason to protest.

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Quote from: MNbag on October 03, 2021, 03:09:59 PM

I wouldn't blame the retirees for protesting Bitcoin, they would be worse off for it.

(at least coins don't need electricity to be used)

Im not sure how the retirees lose from more then 1 form of legal tender, its not like coins were outlawed people can keep using cash like most countries. Coins do have a cost not just in making of them but also handling costs are ongoing in an economy and banks will charge most businesses for this service. Paper money literally wears out and breaks quite easily, dollars in use even digitally definitely have a cost and cost inflation to their use where the value is never 100% true to its original introduction to the country. The greatest cost of using US dollar is not seen close to its production but in the far ends where it circulates globally, thats part of what drives BTC in its usage as its not produced in any one country alone.

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Quote from: Rasa nanas on September 27, 2021, 12:38:59 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Bitcoin is accepted, every business must accept it as a form of payment in El Salvador. But as far as I know that in El Salvador there are some people protesting using BTC as payment and this is increasing day by day. Become so complicated that El Salvador becomes a mess. I think before announcing BTC as a payment method, the government of El Salvador should really provide comprehensive education to all sections of society, young and old, and implement curricula based on Blockchain technology, especially the Bitcoin-based economy.

yes it happened because of the lack of public knowledge about blockchain technology and payment methods using bitcoin. if this continues to happen, there will be more and more people protesting the bitcoin payment method and eventually the implementation of bitcoin in the country will fail. and of course this incident can affect bitcoin globally.

when talking about ignorance, of course, there are two characteristics that can be taken from here, namely the first is that they really want to find out and catch up with the knowledge of those who are already here and the second is that they do not accept and try to use the old system even though it seems to impose their will and do not want to make something new that can advance their lives.
but this is very reasonable, because in everything there will be things that are between pros and cons. and this is the challenge that the government must answer to provide direction to the public against the policies implemented.

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I wouldn't blame the retirees for protesting Bitcoin, they would be worse off for it.

Maybe the fact that the government isn't actually using Bitcoin but a fiat currency that happens to be pegged to Bitcoin, the currency requiring constant electricity in order to be usable (at least coins don't need electricity to be used) and the government already having a history of corruption makes the dream impractical at best and impossible at worst.

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Bitcoin is accepted, every business must accept it as a form of payment in El Salvador. But as far as I know that in El Salvador there are some people protesting using BTC as payment and this is increasing day by day. Become so complicated that El Salvador becomes a mess. I think before announcing BTC as a payment method, the government of El Salvador should really provide comprehensive education to all sections of society, young and old, and implement curricula based on Blockchain technology, especially the Bitcoin-based economy.

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Quote from: Rasa nanas on September 27, 2021, 12:38:59 PM

yes it happened because of the lack of public knowledge about blockchain technology and payment methods using bitcoin. if this continues to happen, there will be more and more people protesting the bitcoin payment method and eventually the implementation of bitcoin in the country will fail. and of course this incident can affect bitcoin globally.

If someone doesn't have enough knowledge on how to use Bitcoin, then there are two options. Either he can learn more about Bitcoin and get more knowledge, or he can just ignore Bitcoin and solely use the US Dollar. Now asking everyone else to stop using the BTC is going too far. And I am sure that Nayib Bukele knows how to deal with these sort of people. My guess is that all these protests are only going to last for a few months. Once the next bull run starts, the protests are going to vanish and the protestors will pick up some other topic.

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Bitcoin is accepted, every business must accept it as a form of payment in El Salvador. But as far as I know that in El Salvador there are some people protesting using BTC as payment and this is increasing day by day. Become so complicated that El Salvador becomes a mess. I think before announcing BTC as a payment method, the government of El Salvador should really provide comprehensive education to all sections of society, young and old, and implement curricula based on Blockchain technology, especially the Bitcoin-based economy.

yes it happened because of the lack of public knowledge about blockchain technology and payment methods using bitcoin. if this continues to happen, there will be more and more people protesting the bitcoin payment method and eventually the implementation of bitcoin in the country will fail. and of course this incident can affect bitcoin globally.

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Quote from: dupee419 on September 26, 2021, 03:02:06 PM

It's either they are uneducated and that they lack the information to understand how Bitcoin works or they are just literally closed-minded to the fact that Bitcoin will be El Salvador's legal tender, if these protesters are closed-minded, no matter how much knowledge is thrown at them, they won't give any attention about it, which is something we really can't do anymore.

there will always be a reaction for every condition that occurs and it is not far from the pros and cons.
and maybe when they say that the second reason is the right reason in my opinion, because of the lack of information and they don't want to find out related information about bitcoin that makes this happen.
other than that, I think there are other interests that can indeed cloud the atmosphere, for example, there are parties who seek profit by moving the community to oppose the circulation of bitcoin there.
this can happen because until now bitcoin is still a lot of people who hate it and when there is a movement (such as the elavador protesters) they can take advantage of these conditions to their advantage.

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Quote from: passwordnow on September 22, 2021, 04:56:21 AM

Quote from: cheezcarls on September 21, 2021, 08:02:09 AM

In my own opinion, I think these retirees are uneducated or misinformed on how Bitcoin works.

Maybe but I wouldn't be thinking that they're like that. We can understand if they are misunderstood or still don't know what bitcoin is and it is understandable if they're asking. But coming with some brutal actions, they shouldn't act like that.

Quote from: cheezcarls on September 21, 2021, 08:02:09 AM

They just need to be educated that’s all. I even saw on my news feed about some protestors are burning and destroying a Bitcoin ATM. Plus, the president claimed that adopting Bitcoin isn’t mandatory. It’s just their own option if they do so, but making Bitcoin a legal tender is a huge step in the right direction to massively adopt this legendary crypto.

Yeah, they must be educated and if they're the one startling riots, burning of things, that's going far and it's no longer bearable and tolerable if such actions has been made if they're just protesting and don't understand what bitcoin is.

It's either they are uneducated and that they lack the information to understand how Bitcoin works or they are just literally closed-minded to the fact that Bitcoin will be El Salvador's legal tender, if these protesters are closed-minded, no matter how much knowledge is thrown at them, they won't give any attention about it, which is something we really can't do anymore.

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Quote from: cheezcarls on September 21, 2021, 08:02:09 AM

In my own opinion, I think these retirees are uneducated or misinformed on how Bitcoin works.

Maybe but I wouldn't be thinking that they're like that. We can understand if they are misunderstood or still don't know what bitcoin is and it is understandable if they're asking. But coming with some brutal actions, they shouldn't act like that.

Quote from: cheezcarls on September 21, 2021, 08:02:09 AM

They just need to be educated that’s all. I even saw on my news feed about some protestors are burning and destroying a Bitcoin ATM. Plus, the president claimed that adopting Bitcoin isn’t mandatory. It’s just their own option if they do so, but making Bitcoin a legal tender is a huge step in the right direction to massively adopt this legendary crypto.

Yeah, they must be educated and if they're the one startling riots, burning of things, that's going far and it's no longer bearable and tolerable if such actions has been made if they're just protesting and don't understand what bitcoin is.

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In my own opinion, I think these retirees are uneducated or misinformed on how Bitcoin works. They just need to be educated that’s all. I even saw on my news feed about some protestors are burning and destroying a Bitcoin ATM. Plus, the president claimed that adopting Bitcoin isn’t mandatory. It’s just their own option if they do so, but making Bitcoin a legal tender is a huge step in the right direction to massively adopt this legendary crypto.

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Quote from: Rruchi man on September 20, 2021, 01:27:30 PM

As much as we may suspect that these protest in El Salvador because of the bitcoin adoption are politically motivated, it is also fair to view from another perspective and say that the protests are also a result of low orientation about the advantages of bitcoin and why their government suddenly decided to give it a go, to the masses.

If there is or was a proper circulation of information and sensitisation from the government to all age grades in the country, many will see no reason to protest, because they will understand the benefits this adoption has for the country, if they truly love their country.

They had the option to protest peacefully. If they don't like the president, or think that he is too authoritarian, then what prevents these people from voting him out. But in order to do that they need to wait until the next presidential elections. Burning down ATMs and other private/public property is not going to do the trick. And I am not surprised at the opposition. The communists once destroyed computers, claiming that they would take away jobs. That was three decades ago. Now the children of these same communist leaders are working in IT firms.

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As much as we may suspect that these protest in El Salvador because of the bitcoin adoption are politically motivated, it is also fair to view from another perspective and say that the protests are also a result of low orientation about the advantages of bitcoin and why their government suddenly decided to give it a go, to the masses.

If there is or was a proper circulation of information and sensitisation from the government to all age grades in the country, many will see no reason to protest, because they will understand the benefits this adoption has for the country, if they truly love their country.

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Quote from: avikz on August 31, 2021, 12:40:02 PM

Also I don't think El-Salvador has made bitcoin mandatory. I don't think they have forced their employees to get salary in bitcoin. So if that is not the case, then I don't see any legit reason to hold such protests. That's why the connection with the opposition party seems more obvious.

I do think that by making BTC legal tender in El Salvador, it provides an alternative payment for the payment of services, products, or debts which are recognized by the government. Though this may spark controversy among the opposition due to the anonymity factor caused in the transaction of BTC, you should really weigh the pros and cons of it.

Another thing, I also do think that this is the case where people are opposed to change as almost all are so accustomed to the 'normal' way of transacting. While the government did categorize it as legal tender, they are no way coercing or compelling the public to transact using BTC. So primarily, it is still under the discretion of these people if they would like to make use of BTC or not.

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