El Salvador retirees protest against Bitcoin as legal tender - page 2.

Sithara007

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Quote from: pinggoki on September 19, 2021, 02:31:50 PM

Then again I believe the reason why they are protesting against the use of bitcoin in El Salvador is because it hasn't been made clear by their government if bitcoin were to completely replace fiat within their territory which would mean serious issues for these people who we can't expect to learn a new payment method within a day or even a week. If things have been made clear for these guys I'm sure there wouldn't be discussions about this.

Well.. this has been posted multiple times. There is absolutely no compulsion from the part of the government. For ordinary people, no one is asking them to use Bitcoin, or to convert their savings to cryptocurrency. It is just that they can do it they want to. And given this, I don't think that the protests are justifiable. The opposition just want to oppose the measure, because it was introduced by the president. They are not opposing it out of merit. Anyway, the picture will become clear only after a few months. At this point, it is too early.

STT

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Just sounds like people unfamiliar resisting the hassle of learning and I dont blame them but how are they are worse off if they are equally able to continue as they were before. Nobody will force the pensioners to accept Bitcoin surely. The biggest deal about BTC being legal tender is that it no longer makes much sense to be blocking it in some tax capture for its appreciation as commodities have been used as basis for currency previously and similarly appreciated. The fact that a country is using BTC for common exchange should give it far better standing against targeting for tax in any country really and I can see why the IMF objected as the current meta is to only allow populations to exchange tokens which are losing value constantly and have no value outside of politics.

pinggoki

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From the looks of it the reason why the retirees are going apeshit about the whole bitcoin adoption process and El Salvador Government authorizing bitcoin as a legal tender is the fact that it hasn't been made clear if bitcoin will be an auxiliary payment option that people could use in order to purchase goods and services, or if the use of bitcoin is made compulsory, meaning even the old-timers like them had no choice but to learn a pretty advanced payment method just so they can facilitate their purchases.

I am in favor of doing it as an auxiliary payment option for now, soon enough people themselves will slowly transition into bitcoin when more people are informed of how things work within and beyond the blockchain. Otherwise let the old people have it, we can't blame them for not being tech savvy.

Quote from: Vishnu.Reang on September 19, 2021, 07:25:09 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Bitcoin is volatile, and their retirees are afraid to hold a banknote worth five hundred dollars today and depreciate to five dollars tomorrow. And for some older people, the ability to accept things is relatively weak, and some people think that Bitcoin is a virtual currency with low security.

Yes. Bitcoin is volatile. So what? Volatility of Bitcoin is not the topic here. If they think that Bitcoin is too volatile, then they don't need to use it. No one is forcing them to use Bitcoin or convert their savings to cryptocurrency. Personally I don't really care if a few old farts refuse to use Bitcoin. But here the problem is that these old farts will not allow others to use Bitcoin as well. Their demands make no sense. If someone actually wants to invest in BTC, what gives these pensioners the right to oppose that? I am all for FoE. But here it is more like bullying.

Then again I believe the reason why they are protesting against the use of bitcoin in El Salvador is because it hasn't been made clear by their government if bitcoin were to completely replace fiat within their territory which would mean serious issues for these people who we can't expect to learn a new payment method within a day or even a week. If things have been made clear for these guys I'm sure there wouldn't be discussions about this.

Vishnu.Reang

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Bitcoin is volatile, and their retirees are afraid to hold a banknote worth five hundred dollars today and depreciate to five dollars tomorrow. And for some older people, the ability to accept things is relatively weak, and some people think that Bitcoin is a virtual currency with low security.

Yes. Bitcoin is volatile. So what? Volatility of Bitcoin is not the topic here. If they think that Bitcoin is too volatile, then they don't need to use it. No one is forcing them to use Bitcoin or convert their savings to cryptocurrency. Personally I don't really care if a few old farts refuse to use Bitcoin. But here the problem is that these old farts will not allow others to use Bitcoin as well. Their demands make no sense. If someone actually wants to invest in BTC, what gives these pensioners the right to oppose that? I am all for FoE. But here it is more like bullying.

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Quote from: btc78 on September 18, 2021, 11:09:30 PM

most of those retiree knows nothing about the goodness of technology , meaning they can be mislead easily by those people that hates the government meaning they are being fooled by anti government to make necessary action since they (as seniors) are the group that respected by the government and the country so their presence and participation is a big part of any plans of groups.
hope they will be enlighten and understand that this action is for their own welfare , imagine that their retirement benefits will no longer need to be claimed physically because they can easily received using cryptowallet.

It looks like small portion of the population is against the move. It is the right for them to get what is necessary, as they're in a democratic country. Maybe they're unaware of the technology, but government should take necessary steps to fulfill the specific group of people. This way government can make the adoption without fail, and without affecting different people with different thoughts.

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most of those retiree knows nothing about the goodness of technology , meaning they can be mislead easily by those people that hates the government meaning they are being fooled by anti government to make necessary action since they (as seniors) are the group that respected by the government and the country so their presence and participation is a big part of any plans of groups.
hope they will be enlighten and understand that this action is for their own welfare , imagine that their retirement benefits will no longer need to be claimed physically because they can easily received using cryptowallet.

Sithara007

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Quote from: _Miracle on September 17, 2021, 10:56:15 PM

Yeah I wouldn't put much stock into "the currency crashed" either.
Many of the articles I'm reading have the government going into forced adoption---and that is the big fail.

P.S. no one wants their currency to fluctuate that much in a day, it's a valid concern.

Actually the government has found a middle ground here. The customers have an option - they can pay with US Dollars everywhere. But for the shopkeepers, that is not the case. They need to accept payments in Bitcoin. But even then, they can opt for immediate conversion to USD, so the volatility in the exchange rates don't impact them. But for those who were dealing only with physical cash, this can present a problem. Now they need to deal electronically, and need to visit an ATM or bank to withdraw their cash.

sunsilk

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Quote from: _Miracle on September 17, 2021, 10:25:06 PM

I don't think this is how it was intended to go...

https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/09/17/el-salvador-bitcoin-law-farce/

So the protesters have come up with this idea and they think that they'll win if they break most of the bitcoin ATMs through burning? what an immature attitude of these protesters.

Their government is trying to adopt and help them out by having this. They're not being put in a cage and they're only allowed to use bitcoin. It's just all about understanding it and there's no need to destroy government-owned assets like this bitcoin atm.

FrancesF

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The people of El Salvador launched a protest in the country on September 15th. They believed that Bitcoin harmed their interests and burned a brand new Bitcoin ATM on the same day. They did not understand the mechanism of Bitcoin. They used traditional thinking. It is not difficult to understand that this is a gambling behavior and will seriously interfere with the national economy. In a backward country, most people may not understand cryptocurrency or Bitcoin, but the country recognizes it in a short time. As a legal currency, it is difficult for them to accept and resist. Perhaps Bitcoin still has a long way to go on the road to international circulation in the future.

_Miracle

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Quote from: Sithara007 on September 17, 2021, 10:40:10 PM

Quote from: _Miracle on September 17, 2021, 10:25:06 PM

I don't think this is how it was intended to go...

https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/09/17/el-salvador-bitcoin-law-farce/

I don't understand the point in posting such one-sided articles to this forum. I read the article and it was completely biased and devoid of truth. The author claims that the "currency crashed". How? I could see an increase in exchange rates from $45,000 to $48,000. Is he referring about any other form of "crash"? Then the author (David Gerard) goes on with his usual argument - Bitcoin has a money laundering problem (when fiat is used for 99.9% of such purposes), Bitcoin has no trust.etc (but he is perfectly fine with Salvadorans trusting a foreign currency, i.e the USD). Haters are going to hate, but nothing can stop the juggernaut.

Yeah I wouldn't put much stock into "the currency crashed" either.
Many of the articles I'm reading have the government going into forced adoption---and that is the big fail.

P.S. no one wants their currency to fluctuate that much in a day, it's a valid concern.

Sithara007

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Quote from: _Miracle on September 17, 2021, 10:25:06 PM

I don't think this is how it was intended to go...

https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/09/17/el-salvador-bitcoin-law-farce/

I don't understand the point in posting such one-sided articles to this forum. I read the article and it was completely biased and devoid of truth. The author claims that the "currency crashed". How? I could see an increase in exchange rates from $45,000 to $48,000. Is he referring about any other form of "crash"? Then the author (David Gerard) goes on with his usual argument - Bitcoin has a money laundering problem (when fiat is used for 99.9% of such purposes), Bitcoin has no trust.etc (but he is perfectly fine with Salvadorans trusting a foreign currency, i.e the USD). Haters are going to hate, but nothing can stop the juggernaut.

_Miracle

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I don't think this is how it was intended to go...

https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/09/17/el-salvador-bitcoin-law-farce/

MCobian

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Quote from: Natalim on September 09, 2021, 04:44:34 PM

Quote from: MCobian on September 09, 2021, 03:45:11 PM

Quote from: jamkesmas on September 09, 2021, 03:06:28 AM

Quote from: int03h on September 09, 2021, 01:16:41 AM

~

El Salvador retirees don't have to vote for bitcoin, president Bukele said in a tweet that for citizens concerned about their retirement funds, they can continue to choose to make transactions in US dollars as usual, using bitcoin not mandatory in the country if they have any doubts about bitcoin.

Actually, the reason El Salvador retirees reject Bitcoin is because they lack education about Bitcoin. We do have to understand that old people have
a harder time accepting something new, so they protest something they don't understand. The government of El Salvador should carry out a more
intensive education program about Bitcoin to the residents of El Salvador, especially the elderly population. Maybe the solution is that El Salvador
retirees can choose to use fiat if they don't trust Bitcoin. I agree with you, there is no compulsion from the government of El Salvador to use Bitcoin.

El Salvador retirees have all the right to protest if they think they will find it hard to understand and use bitcoin as a currency. But i don't think they should be bothered by that since their own fiat is not yet eliminated and they can still use it as much as they can. Maybe its just a misinformation.

While most of the elderly have found it hard to use bitcoin but most of the millenials and even those in their mid age are definitely enjoying using bitcoin because as far as i know, some are already into bitcoin investments even before bitcoin has become a legal tender.

El Salvador retirees don't have much time in their lives. It is natural that they are more comfortable with the old policies and resist the new
rules imposed by the El Salvador government. Retirees don't care about new things, maybe they don't have the motivation to accept new things
in their lives. The most important thing in their lives is that they can live the rest of their lives in peace, therefore the government of El Salvador is
wise enough not to eliminate fiat, and still gives El Salvador residents the choice of using fiat or Bitcoin. The government of El Salvador should
think about the progress of its country, so forced to take a bold decision by making Bitcoin a legal tender. Even though in the end not all
El Salvadorans supported it, I was among those who supported what the El Salvador government did.

Sithara007

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Quote from: LUCKMCFLY on September 11, 2021, 08:40:46 PM

There are very good things that Bitcoin has brought to El Salvador, in fact the wallet called Chivo Wallet, has many benefits, people can make BTC transactions from goat wallet to goat wallet with a value of Fee = 0, when it is done To another wallet other than Chivo Wallet they only pay the corresponding fee, it is really an advantage that they have, of course the conditions are under government regulations that so far look very good, anyway it is an advantage to be able to make the transactions.

Chivo wallet was taken offline a couple of days back, in order to resolve some technical issues. Everything was restored in a few hours. But the rollout has proceeded without major issues. And regarding wallet transactions, there are certain advantages when they take them off the chain. Direct transactions using the Blockchain takes some time to confirm, and the fee will be higher. However, when they do internal transactions in Chivo, the confirmations are almost instant and the fee levels are low.

LUCKMCFLY

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Quote from: Kusman on September 09, 2021, 04:59:33 PM

They can continue to protest if they still would like but El Salvador has already made Bitcoin legal tender. From now on, there will be nothing changing. I understand that people are afraid of the possibility that Bitcoin can lose its value at a very high rate time to time. An example of it happened recently. But I assume that El Salvador is going to be prepared against such situations. Otherwise, this is a very risky move for them. There is no guarantee that Bitcoin price will stay at these levels in the worst case.

There are very good things that Bitcoin has brought to El Salvador, in fact the wallet called Chivo Wallet, has many benefits, people can make BTC transactions from goat wallet to goat wallet with a value of Fee = 0, when it is done To another wallet other than Chivo Wallet they only pay the corresponding fee, it is really an advantage that they have, of course the conditions are under government regulations that so far look very good, anyway it is an advantage to be able to make the transactions .

perfect999

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El Salvador already must have made a profit by buying more from the drop, on the next increase they are going to be so much in profit as a nation they will be doing a lot better. This is just the start in the future they will be even better. I do not care what 60+ year olds are saying about bitcoin, you do not have to expect them to understand it, and the people behind them are basically ruining the nation and that is why they want that bitcoin law to be withdrawn because they would be hurting financially if this continues, which it will and they will lose.

Crypto is not for the retirees, it is for people who imagine a better retirement for themselves in the future, it is not even for me, it is for younger kids, people who are in college right now, thanks to bitcoin they will be able to live a life that is a lot more just and fair financially.

geegaw

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Quote from: MCobian on September 09, 2021, 03:45:11 PM

Quote from: jamkesmas on September 09, 2021, 03:06:28 AM

Quote from: int03h on September 09, 2021, 01:16:41 AM

Choosing Bitcoin as a reserve for the elderly is a bold move. Most of the elderly are not knowledgeable about Bitcoin so it is obvious that they oppose the policies of the president of El Salvador and I consider it a normal reaction. I believe Bitcoin will go up in the long term and people have more confidence in the bold move of their president.

El Salvador retirees don't have to vote for bitcoin, president Bukele said in a tweet that for citizens concerned about their retirement funds, they can continue to choose to make transactions in US dollars as usual, using bitcoin not mandatory in the country if they have any doubts about bitcoin.

Actually, the reason El Salvador retirees reject Bitcoin is because they lack education about Bitcoin. We do have to understand that old people have
a harder time accepting something new, so they protest something they don't understand. The government of El Salvador should carry out a more
intensive education program about Bitcoin to the residents of El Salvador, especially the elderly population. Maybe the solution is that El Salvador
retirees can choose to use fiat if they don't trust Bitcoin. I agree with you, there is no compulsion from the government of El Salvador to use Bitcoin.

Dude, you need to pay attention to these people's nicknames, it's retirees and their pension life is what keeps them safe all the way to the next one, and at the time of most need of rest and possible comfort, the new policy of the president of El Salvador abolished their wish, no knowledge will not be their fault, this is a very new update and there is not much time left in their life for these updates, asking them to take extra lessons is unreasonable. Bold move but there are many people who do not have enough time to sacrifice, need to think more about policies and leniency for retirees

Sithara007

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Quote from: Kusman on September 09, 2021, 04:59:33 PM

They can continue to protest if they still would like but El Salvador has already made Bitcoin legal tender. From now on, there will be nothing changing. I understand that people are afraid of the possibility that Bitcoin can lose its value at a very high rate time to time. An example of it happened recently. But I assume that El Salvador is going to be prepared against such situations. Otherwise, this is a very risky move for them. There is no guarantee that Bitcoin price will stay at these levels in the worst case.

If the retirees use Bitcoin just to make the payments, then it should not be the case. No one is asking them to invest in Bitcoin or to use Bitcoin as a store of value. Let them use USD for these purposes. It is an irony actually. The US Dollar is at it's weakest state it ever was, and still people want to use it. This shows the level of brainwashing and misunderstanding of the financial realities. US Dollar may be the world's reserve currency, but the rate at which the purchasing power is going down, everyone should be cautious while dealing in it.

Kusman

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They can continue to protest if they still would like but El Salvador has already made Bitcoin legal tender. From now on, there will be nothing changing. I understand that people are afraid of the possibility that Bitcoin can lose its value at a very high rate time to time. An example of it happened recently. But I assume that El Salvador is going to be prepared against such situations. Otherwise, this is a very risky move for them. There is no guarantee that Bitcoin price will stay at these levels in the worst case.

Natalim

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Quote from: MCobian on September 09, 2021, 03:45:11 PM

Quote from: jamkesmas on September 09, 2021, 03:06:28 AM

Quote from: int03h on September 09, 2021, 01:16:41 AM

Choosing Bitcoin as a reserve for the elderly is a bold move. Most of the elderly are not knowledgeable about Bitcoin so it is obvious that they oppose the policies of the president of El Salvador and I consider it a normal reaction. I believe Bitcoin will go up in the long term and people have more confidence in the bold move of their president.

El Salvador retirees don't have to vote for bitcoin, president Bukele said in a tweet that for citizens concerned about their retirement funds, they can continue to choose to make transactions in US dollars as usual, using bitcoin not mandatory in the country if they have any doubts about bitcoin.

Actually, the reason El Salvador retirees reject Bitcoin is because they lack education about Bitcoin. We do have to understand that old people have
a harder time accepting something new, so they protest something they don't understand. The government of El Salvador should carry out a more
intensive education program about Bitcoin to the residents of El Salvador, especially the elderly population. Maybe the solution is that El Salvador
retirees can choose to use fiat if they don't trust Bitcoin. I agree with you, there is no compulsion from the government of El Salvador to use Bitcoin.

El Salvador retirees have all the right to protest if they think they will find it hard to understand and use bitcoin as a currency. But i don't think they should be bothered by that since their own fiat is not yet eliminated and they can still use it as much as they can. Maybe its just a misinformation.

While most of the elderly have found it hard to use bitcoin but most of the millenials and even those in their mid age are definitely enjoying using bitcoin because as far as i know, some are already into bitcoin investments even before bitcoin has become a legal tender.

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