El Salvador retirees protest against Bitcoin as legal tender - page 7.

stompix

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Quote from: Despairo on August 31, 2021, 07:18:40 AM

They want to be rich, but they protest against Bitcoin used as legal tender LOL does this both picture are hard to understand? please, open your eyes. Bitcoin from 0 went to $47K while USD from $25 went to $1

And you think that in the next ten years BTC will grow again x50000 to 2.5 billion a coin?
What would past performance mean to those people, they don't care about the past they care about the future, and at this point, I understand some of them, to be forced to accept something that you don't want would normally lead to protest.
I'm actually scared of the attitude of some bitcoins here, why the hell are you trying to impose on some people your views, wasn't bitcoin about freedom? Now you're the ones deciding they are stupid, labeling them as idiots, and telling them what they should do! The irony in this is almost unbearable!

Quote from: Slow death on August 31, 2021, 03:19:03 PM

It's unbelievable how some people can use the argument that bitcoin is hard to deal with (they can't understand the technology), but it's the same people who use facebook, instagram and Whatsapp and so many other social networks and apps, it gets comical because people can easily google bitcoin in the same way they do research on singers and movie actors

These might change your view a bit!

Quote from: hello_good_sir on August 31, 2021, 06:33:36 PM

I understand that they are frustrated with the wave of potential immigrants that will be flooding the country, but really this is good for the local economy.

Yeah right, people will flock to one of the poorest countries in the world, with a complete lack of infrastructure, medical services, riddled with crime because bitcoin is legal tender. Yeah right! You will give up high-paying jobs in the western world, leave families and relatives behind to enjoy what? Hurricane seasons that level up half of the country combined with earthquakes that killed thousands?

Sithara007

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This is what happens when Bitcoin is suddenly introduced as the legal tender. The president and the parliament could have given 6-12 months for the process. But they chose to implement it all of a sudden. The younger people may still be able to get adjusted, because almost all of them know how to use a smartphone and install Android apps. But in my area, I know a lot of pensioners who don't know how to use a smartphone (even to attend calls). How do you expect these people to become knowledgeable about Bitcoin in a matter of days?

Darker45

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I guess their fears are founded first and foremost on lack of knowledge. This possibility is what I'm also looking at considering that Bitcoin is indeed alien to many people, especially the old ones. A lot of old people could not even manage to send a text message. So it is understandable that they are worried. But I guess the message of the government that nobody is forced to use Bitcoin over USD hasn't reached them. This is what I am also saying in another thread, that the government should strengthen Bitcoin education and information dissemination while gradually implementing the use of Bitcoin as a legal tender.

hello_good_sir

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It's funny because bitcoin is precisely the opposite of what they say it is. They seem to still be stuck with their myopic vision of fiat.

I understand that they are frustrated with the wave of potential immigrants that will be flooding the country, but really this is good for the local economy.

The people who are going to be granted visas are likely going to be innovative and carry forward looking values and a ton of capital from their crypto assets. El Salvador has a real opportunity to capitalise on here.

arallmuus

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Quote from: Despairo on August 31, 2021, 07:18:40 AM

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According to local reports, El Salvador’s latest anti-Bitcoin protests were apparently a part of a wider opposition campaign by local veterans protesting over low pensions on Friday. As such, some protesters reportedly demanded a pension increase from $100 to $300.

They want to be rich, but they protest against Bitcoin used as legal tender LOL does this both picture are hard to understand? please, open your eyes. Bitcoin from 0 went to $47K while USD from $25 went to $1

Speaking from their POV, its quite reasonable that they are protesting about it because bitcoin is considered as a volatile investment by the average joe.

Imagine getting your $100 pension in bitcoin, only to have the value reduced by 10% in less than 1 month. This is what scares the average joe the most, the volatility. Yeah sure USD value is lower every year due to the inflation but its merely at controllable rate of 1-2% on average per year so people are feel that ' they are not affected ' by it but in fact they are still being affected.

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Quote from: sunsilk on August 31, 2021, 05:01:48 PM

They don't understand what it means to accept bitcoin. I guess with these protests, we're now having an idea that the same thing might happen to the next country that will adopt bitcoin as a legal tender.

But I guess there will be an easier mitigation for that government and knows how to take care and handle these protests if ever the next government announces it.

Some people protest even if they have no idea what they are protesting for. I guess, a lot of them haven't touched any crypto transaction yet. The government should find a way how to educate its people about this new technology. Because most of the time, ignorance is the reason why people are hard about on things. If they learn the benefits brought about by this currency, will they still protest about its existence?

sunsilk

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They don't understand what it means to accept bitcoin. I guess with these protests, we're now having an idea that the same thing might happen to the next country that will adopt bitcoin as a legal tender.

But I guess there will be an easier mitigation for that government and knows how to take care and handle these protests if ever the next government announces it.

adzino

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Those old geezers should actually first learn what bitcoin is and how it works. It's sad to see them associating bitcoin with just criminal activities. Funny how they act like fiat isn't being used to launder money at all. In fact, it would be harder to launder money using bitcoin since bitcoin can be traced very easily. I am sure those guys that are protesting are the ones that are corrupted and are scared that they won't be able to continue with their regular corruption using bitcoin. Educate them more about this technology!

Slow death

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It's unbelievable how some people can use the argument that bitcoin is hard to deal with (they can't understand the technology), but it's the same people who use facebook, instagram and Whatsapp and so many other social networks and apps, it gets comical because people can easily google bitcoin in the same way they do research on singers and movie actors, it is unacceptable to use arguments that would need more time to learn about bitcoin, about volatility they may be right, and it will be very difficult to deal with this high bitcoin volatility

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Quote from: Maidak on August 31, 2021, 01:03:12 PM

Quote from: Despairo on August 31, 2021, 07:18:40 AM

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“Salvadorans also expressed concerns over the lack of knowledge and understanding of the technology needed to use cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin. Protesters held up signs saying, “We don’t want Bitcoin” and “No to corrupt money laundering.”

It would be very advanced if they made Bitcoin mandatory. Because very few people have a good idea about technology and fewer people use it. There is no denying that very few people are accustomed to Bitcoin, and imposing anything on the public without proper knowledge can be daunting. It would be better to keep Bitcoin as a compulsory payment gateway and at the same time make it possible for everyone to be educated on the principles and uses of Bitcoin.

For me, the legalization for bitcoin just got so fast. I do understand the President has a good intention for accepting bitcoin but the reaction of the citizens seem not in favor about bitcoin. There must be a public education for all about bitcoin, learning the whole benefits about bitcoin and how they will be able to use it and definitely its pros and cons. The citizens are obliged to know all the basic things about bitcoin so that they will not always come up questioning about the current sytem.

I know things might only be worst in the beginning but as time goes by, the problem will definitely be solved. After all, bitcoin is user friendly so all citizens would really love using and having it once they will learn how to use it.

dothebeats

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The protesters are probably afraid of change that they know little about. What the government of El Salvador can do is to just continue with the planned start date of the law and place infographics and some flyers re: benefits of using bitcoin as legal tender and how it can help their economy. It will take time for the whole population to understand the benefits of bitcoin but it will come as long as the government is sincere in their efforts to educated the masses alongside making bitcoin a legal tender in the country.

Also, the government isn't forcing its citizens to use bitcoin, so there is still room for pensioners and old-timers to use whatever they want to use in buying things and receiving payments.

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Quote from: ILuckyGuyI on August 31, 2021, 02:04:08 PM

This is not the first time I hear some people saying that Bitcoin price is always fluctuating so it can't be made legal tender. But even if they continue to say these things, El Salvador has made it legal tender. And this will stay the way it is as long as the country doesn't start getting harmed by this move. They should be really careful about this situation. Otherwise, all the effort will be in vain.

Being the first state to make bitcoin as a legal tender, then its really expected that not all people will agree on it particularly for those old people who were not able to study on new technology so having to use fiat for a lifetime is already good enough for them. Not just them but also for those kind of people who still believe that bitcoin is a scam and there is no way that bitcoin can be a good currency but for money laundering purposes only.

Good thing about this is that the President is not forcing to use bitcoin for now but i know in time, bitcoin will be mandatory already as only few people only get to oppose the current enforced system. Well, everything can be learn in bitcoin so there's no way people can escape that.

ILuckyGuyI

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This is not the first time I hear some people saying that Bitcoin price is always fluctuating so it can't be made legal tender. But even if they continue to say these things, El Salvador has made it legal tender. And this will stay the way it is as long as the country doesn't start getting harmed by this move. They should be really careful about this situation. Otherwise, all the effort will be in vain.

DrBeer

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Pensioners are a rather specific stratum of the population ... They almost always and everywhere deny progress, they are afraid of changes, they do not want to study not only new, even simple household, technologies, but they are not even ready for new goods! In this case, they are quite justifiably opposed to an entity that is absolutely incomprehensible to them. They are used to coins and bills in the wallet and not to hashes, transactions and blocks of transactions. Plus, passwords to wallets are a huge problem for them ... In general, they are right, on their part. Well, objectively, from the economic point of view, replacing the national currency with a crypto asset is a dubious program of "healing" the economy ... The only question of the volatility of cryptocurrencies guarantees an outbreak of negativity among the masses, with the next bearish trend - what will you tell them if they are not already high stocks, will be reduced by 10 times, with a fall in the rate of cryptocurrencies? And this is a normal process for the crypto market! ...

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Quote from: Despairo on August 31, 2021, 07:18:40 AM

Quote

“Salvadorans also expressed concerns over the lack of knowledge and understanding of the technology needed to use cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin. Protesters held up signs saying, “We don’t want Bitcoin” and “No to corrupt money laundering.”

It would be very advanced if they made Bitcoin mandatory. Because very few people have a good idea about technology and fewer people use it. There is no denying that very few people are accustomed to Bitcoin, and imposing anything on the public without proper knowledge can be daunting. It would be better to keep Bitcoin as a compulsory payment gateway and at the same time make it possible for everyone to be educated on the principles and uses of Bitcoin.

hatshepsut93

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Nayib Bukele is not a tremendously popular president, he and his closest people were accused of corruption many times, so this is where the idea that Bitcoin will be used for money laundering comes from. Also, if the government will decide to store a large portion of its assets in Bitcoin, then volatility is a very valid concern. I would protest too if my government held more than 5-10% of its treasury in Bitcoin, even though I myself have a much higher portion of my networth in BTC.

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Quote from: Charles-Tim on August 31, 2021, 07:57:44 AM

This would have been the cause of protests by some people that went against the bitcoin law. If bitcoin is accepted, it is by force that every business should accept it as a form of payment in El Salvador. I think the government should not go to this extent, they should let citizens to have their own opinion to make. Even if they accept Bitcoin as a legal tender, it should not be a compulsory form of payment, they should just only accept it as a legal form of payment which I think it is enough and not mandating their citizens to accept it as some do not want to. Bitcoin should give freedom, El Salvadorian government should also think about this before making compulsion move, Bitcoin is better to just be a legal form of payment and not more.

Unfortunately this is exactly what legal tender means, it is a form of money that has been recognized by the government and by law you must accept it, it is not really an option to not do it.

However I see your point maybe if they recognize bitcoin as a form of money that you can accept but that you can reject as well if you are not comfortable using it then maybe this will not be such a huge shock for a portion of the population that does not want to use bitcoin, however I think that the government of El Salvador is seeing the incredible potential that bitcoin has and they do not want to miss on it while being ambivalent about the issue.

BITCOIN4X

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There are always pros and cons to any decision taken by the government of any country, including El Salvador's decision to legalize bitcoin as a legal tender. We are all not responsible for changing the mindset of people who don't believe in bitcoin or people who are anti-bitcoin wherever they are and whoever they are. Bitcoin is a decentralized currency that has the same function and uses as fiat currency. The misappropriation of bitcoin in illegal acts such as money laundering by certain individuals is not the failure of the currency to prevent illegal acts and it is one of the things that every country that owns the currency needs to think about including the creation of bitcoin.

The government has the right to decide and regulate bitcoin can be used or not as a legal currency after they have conducted an in-depth study. If bitcoin can help the community in terms of the financial system, payment transaction and so on, the legality decided by the government must be supported. There's no need to think about the handful of people who are against the legality decision, they'll find out the truth once they learn more about it.

avikz

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To begin with, El- Salvador is a democratic nation and not a Monarchy . So their people have legal rights to protest against anything. So whenever a country tries to being in big change into any field, protest happens! These protests are either natural or ignited by the opposition. The second one seems the case here!

Also I don't think El-Salvador has made bitcoin mandatory. I don't think they have forced their employees to get salary in bitcoin. So if that is not the case, then I don't see any legit reason to hold such protests. That's why the connection with the opposition party seems more obvious.

Ucy

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Well, extreme price volatility is not frequent, but if he's talking about mere volatility, that can also be seen in any fiat currency. Fiats typically fluctuate moderately though (but are inflationary), and they infact have extreme price volatility especially during crisis period... and they lose their value long-term due to inflation compared to Bitcoin which increase in price(+value) longterm.
I can't imagine a currency that doesn't fluctuate at all, probably dead currency? Fluctuations are normally in the economic world of demand and supply, and in a world where prices of goods & services fluctuate.

In regards to laundering money, depends on how useful/moral the money laundaring law is. I think the app could be built in a way that check that without violating Bitcoin important principles. If the app is centralized then you will probably need a centralized regulators to check that.

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