El Salvador retirees protest against Bitcoin as legal tender - page 5.

Sithara007

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Quote from: LUCKMCFLY on September 03, 2021, 10:42:04 AM

I am sure that those who protest for this reason have no idea that the main money laundering has occurred with fiat money, I think that people's ignorance has no cavity here, mainly this is because a lot of financial education is needed.

People mainly do not trust the volatility of BTC, Besides that there is a great campaign against BTC, both in the news and in the opposition of the government, all this helps that people do not understand the social problem very well, which, all it gets stuck for me for that reason.
When a person does not understand a technology, it is normal for them to lean towards the bad, which is shown by the news, actually when watching CNN in Spanish they do not recommend investing in BTC in their programs due to high volatility.

Volatility is not essentially a bad thing. When you are using Bitcoin to make payments or for remittance, if you are using a payment processor then the coins will be immediately converted to fiat currency. Neither the seller, nor the buyer need to worry about the volatility here. And mainstream media has never presented a honest picture of Bitcoin in front of the ordinary people. They would like us to believe that it is the currency of drug dealers and pedophiles, even when they don't have any proof to back it up.

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Quote from: iv4n on September 01, 2021, 04:05:16 PM

I would say it's a result of propaganda! Old people believe that Bitcoin is used for illegal activities, and now probably these old people think that allowing Bitcoin to be a legal tender will draw people from criminal circles! So now these old people are just protesting against new regulations because they don't see any benefits for them directly! They don't understand crypto, they want something in their wallets! And can we blame them?! It's something new that they don't understand, maybe they feel like left behind again, and they are protesting... as the last chance to change something for them!

If the point of the protests are "this is criminal stuff and we do not want it" then I would understand however they made it very clear that they are also very interested in the fact that bitcoin is volatile, if the point is criminal activity then the point of being volatile should be not a problem at all, why would you care if the money criminals use is volatile at all?

They would not say that if it was all about criminal activities. Don't get me wrong I am not saying that they are not caring about that part, all I am saying that if they are saying bad things about the volatility of bitcoin price then it means they must be caring about something more than that and they care about their own money moving up and down as well.

This is why I am asking if they care about volatility, why not just ignore it completely? It is an option and not a forced thing, so volatility shouldn't be cause for protests. Weird situation in and out.

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Quote from: stompix on September 01, 2021, 12:23:30 AM

Quote from: Despairo on August 31, 2021, 08:18:40 AM

Dear stompix
I don't know who you are, but you made a good point of the other perspective to view Bitcoin as freedom and those retirees against Bitcoin. Actually I feel sorry for those pensioners due to health issue and for the disabilities, they're a hero and really motivating to all people. But, El Salvador accept it as second legal tender and didn't force their citizen to use it, so they feel free to choose. The article isn't wrong, but I'm wrong to give a opinion about this protest.

As for the ten years speculation of Bitcoin, I no have any idea to speculate it because we don't know how high the demand with Bitcoin in the future.

Quote from: The Sceptical Chymist on September 01, 2021, 05:25:48 AM

Dear The Pharmacist

First, sorry for being blindly pro-bitcoin because I really love Bitcoin and hate Banks or Fiat even I still use it.
Yeah the little money aspect is a main problem of their citizen protest, they need to use their money to buy food for daily life and don't have more money to buy Bitcoin. Scalability is also the problem because they forced to buy more than they want, so it will make the fees more cheaper per average. I admit I was wrong and will learn to view on other perspective as well.

Dear other users thank you for your opinions.

LUCKMCFLY

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Quote from: Shenzou on September 01, 2021, 04:56:50 PM

the people that are protesting against bitcoin and they still believe that it is used for money laundering that they should have an audit on their income and belonging, because the only people who would go against it have some kind of profit of some transactions going unnoticed, because will transaction being on the blockchain people can see what money goes to whom and that makes any big transaction to be seen and inspected,

I am sure that those who protest for this reason have no idea that the main money laundering has occurred with fiat money, I think that people's ignorance has no cavity here, mainly this is because a lot of financial education is needed.

People mainly do not trust the volatility of BTC, Besides that there is a great campaign against BTC, both in the news and in the opposition of the government, all this helps that people do not understand the social problem very well, which, all it gets stuck for me for that reason.
When a person does not understand a technology, it is normal for them to lean towards the bad, which is shown by the news, actually when watching CNN in Spanish they do not recommend investing in BTC in their programs due to high volatility.

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Quote from: Kong Hey Pakboy on August 31, 2021, 10:02:24 AM

Another BS, money laundering is much easier to get caught if they use bitcoin because there's a public ledger that helps you trace the suspicious transactions. It's normal that the prices are volatile, that's how it is plus why do they make a big deal out of bitcoin, as if it's the only thing that matters in El Salvador.

It's kind of funny that this narrative can still be maintained so successfully. After all, it has been shown in recent years that Bitcoin is rather disadvantageous for money laundering. Cash is much better for that. Even a former senior FBI official said in an interview that Bitcoin is rather a blessing for law enforcement agencies in this matter.

Here is also an interesting article about it:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/haileylennon/2021/01/19/the-false-narrative-of-bitcoins-role-in-illicit-activity/

kotajikikox

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I'm sure this is another political motivated movement and the opposition is on the back of it, imagine that the government supports the most controversial but most favorable currency in the world, but they are still protesting and calling this as scam ?
These retiree know nothing about the situation and they are just being lured to make those comment to back up oppositions stand and make the administration looks stupid.

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Quote from: Wind_FURY on September 03, 2021, 04:29:34 AM

It doesn’t mean that if what the state/government is forcing you to use is Bitcoin, it’s an automatic “OK” decision. The point was no state should force Bitcoin on ANYONE, but let the people use it for its merits.

Yes but my point was that no state should force Fiat on anyone either, that's what they do and I don't see many people complaining about it. I don't see people using the Fiat for its "merits" either, apart from the fact that this is what is accepted as payment.

Quote from: Wind_FURY on September 03, 2021, 04:29:34 AM

Did I say “massive” protests? I said it was growing. Pictures shown were from different parts of El Salvador.

No, you didn't.

Besides, it seems to me that protests will be closely linked to the price. If it goes up a lot, no one will protest, as soon as there is a drop, there will probably be protests again. It shouldn't be like that, and Bitcoin should be valued for its intrinsic properties but it seems to me that's what's going to happen.

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Quote from: Arvin01 on September 03, 2021, 06:00:41 AM

We know that the value of Bitcoin will get higher and higher. But some old people still don't understand.
They have not been exposed to Bitcoin, and they still choose fiat currency in their hearts.

No that's not true bitcoin will not go higher and higher as we also need to consider the volatility that's why many freakin out when bitcoin goes dump. And its hard for old people to understand the technology since not everyone have high tolerance for losing a value for their hold money on their wallets so I agree with others that they should not force to use this as many citizen doesn't really understand bitcoin maybe they should set certain timeline regarding and do frequent informational guide so that there citizens will understand the new currencies accepted on their country.

Arvin01

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We know that the value of Bitcoin will get higher and higher. But some old people still don't understand.
They have not been exposed to Bitcoin, and they still choose fiat currency in their hearts.

Wind_FURY

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Quote from: Poker Player on September 03, 2021, 01:53:50 AM

Quote from: Wind_FURY on September 02, 2021, 07:16:50 AM

The protests are growing in support.

That is a DEPRESSING picture. But OP, you’re wrong. They are NOT “protesting against Bitcoin”, they’re protesting against the laws that FORCE them to accept Bitcoin. I already said it in another thread that accepting Bitcoin legal tender is OK, but forcing the people to accept it without giving them the right to say “NO” will be a problem. El Salvador should let Bitcoin be used in its own merit.

I don't agree with that. In every country in the world they force us to accept Fiat, they force us to pay taxes with Fiat, so for a country to do the same with Bitcoin seems great to me.

And the photo you put is a laugh, it is not the first one I see of "massive" protests and there's hardly a soul.

It doesn’t mean that if what the state/government is forcing you to use is Bitcoin, it’s an automatic “OK” decision. The point was no state should force Bitcoin on ANYONE, but let the people use it for its merits.

Did I say “massive” protests? I said it was growing. Pictures shown were from different parts of El Salvador.

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Quote from: Wind_FURY on September 02, 2021, 07:16:50 AM

The protests are growing in support.

That is a DEPRESSING picture. But OP, you’re wrong. They are NOT “protesting against Bitcoin”, they’re protesting against the laws that FORCE them to accept Bitcoin. I already said it in another thread that accepting Bitcoin legal tender is OK, but forcing the people to accept it without giving them the right to say “NO” will be a problem. El Salvador should let Bitcoin be used in its own merit.

I don't agree with that. In every country in the world they force us to accept Fiat, they force us to pay taxes with Fiat, so for a country to do the same with Bitcoin seems great to me.

And the photo you put is a laugh, it is not the first one I see of "massive" protests and there's hardly a soul.

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Quote from: avikz on August 31, 2021, 12:40:02 PM

To begin with, El- Salvador is a democratic nation and not a Monarchy . So their people have legal rights to protest against anything. So whenever a country tries to being in big change into any field, protest happens! These protests are either natural or ignited by the opposition. The second one seems the case here!

Also I don't think El-Salvador has made bitcoin mandatory. I don't think they have forced their employees to get salary in bitcoin. So if that is not the case, then I don't see any legit reason to hold such protests. That's why the connection with the opposition party seems more obvious.

In my opinion, the introduction of bitcoin as the national currency of El Salvador will begin only this month. The population does not yet have any experience in using bitcoin as a national currency. However, everything new is often not accepted by people, especially when it comes to finances and people of retirement age. This category of people wants peace of mind, not experimentation and the dedication of a significant amount of their time in order to figure out how to use this new financial phenomenon for them. This is still the first impression of people. Let's see what will happen next. The whole world is watching this experiment of the El Salvadorian authorities.

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What are they gonna do? Raise their canes and rally in the streets with their crutches? These people don't know what they're talking about, the money laundering angle has been used already but they still use that card? It's like bitcoin started the business of laundering money. Just so you know people who still believes that bitcoin can be used for laundering money, there's an advancement in cyber crime prevention where they can track the suspicious transactions and bitcoin makes their job much more easier.

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Quote from: jakdanyel on September 02, 2021, 11:21:51 AM

Hasn't El Salvador already made Bitcoin legal tender? Because I've heard that they did it long time ago. And it is not surprising to see that there are Bitcoin antagonists. It looks like their number will never go down to zero. I wonder if Bitcoin price wasn't too volatile, would they still oppose it? Because whoever I see as a Bitcoin antagonist says that the volatility is the biggest factor for not makin it legal tender.

New technologies will always face opposition. I will tell you one story. When one of the companies import a computer for the first time in India (if I remember correctly, that was in the late 80s), the communist party workers destroyed the company office in protest. They claimed that computers will result in unemployment. Three decades have passed, and the daughter of the sole remaining communist party chief minister is now the head of an IT company. Same will happen in El Salvador. Those who oppose Bitcoin today will be the biggest proponents of it tomorrow.

verita1

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El Salvador like all countries has a side of people who oppose the government that is the reason for the anti-bitcoin protests.
If we saw it as if the Bitcoin law of El Salvador was being enforced in our countries, we would also see movements like these.
It is sad and unfortunately because it is the future of young people that are at stake, it is the first thing that comes to mind because we know that bitcoin represents the solution to many liquidity problems, it can also minimize corruption where it is implemented.

Quote

"This will be what happens on September 7: People will be able to download an application to receive payments or gifts in Bitcoin or US dollars. If they want they will download the app, and if they don't want to, no," I have tweeted today.

That app is the country’s official Bitcoin digital wallet, called Chivo.

https://decrypt.co/79209/el-salvadors-president-insists-bitcoin-use-will-not-be-mandatory?amp=1

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Quote from: jakdanyel on September 02, 2021, 11:21:51 AM

Hasn't El Salvador already made Bitcoin legal tender? Because I've heard that they did it long time ago. And it is not surprising to see that there are Bitcoin antagonists. It looks like their number will never go down to zero. I wonder if Bitcoin price wasn't too volatile, would they still oppose it? Because whoever I see as a Bitcoin antagonist says that the volatility is the biggest factor for not makin it legal tender.

It has been approved by Congress and made a bill already. But the problem is that the government is somewhat forcing the people to use Bitcoin which makes people out in rallying. They have the rights as well and this is actually hasn't be made like that.
Yeah, I don't tend to agree with such a thing as it is just likes killing our freedom to choose, in fact, the use of Bitcoin is only optional.

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The problem with some people is that they never take their time to learn about something before they start making their comments. All they do is just to create assumptions about the market, which is totally wrong. I have met people who think that bitcoin is bad and by the time I ask them a few questions I come to realize that they have not done any research to really understand bitcoin, rather they are saying that based on what they were told, which is totally wrong. They are meant to take their time and research about it to verify that what they are told is true.

So, the problem with most of these people is just ignorance.Although I am not trying to say that everyone must like bitcoin, but before they criticize or do anything, they should know what they are criticizing.

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Hasn't El Salvador already made Bitcoin legal tender? Because I've heard that they did it long time ago. And it is not surprising to see that there are Bitcoin antagonists. It looks like their number will never go down to zero. I wonder if Bitcoin price wasn't too volatile, would they still oppose it? Because whoever I see as a Bitcoin antagonist says that the volatility is the biggest factor for not makin it legal tender.

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Quote from: Wind_FURY on September 02, 2021, 07:16:50 AM

The protests are growing in support.

That is a DEPRESSING picture. But OP, you’re wrong. They are NOT “protesting against Bitcoin”, they’re protesting against the laws that FORCE them to accept Bitcoin. I already said it in another thread that accepting Bitcoin legal tender is OK, but forcing the people to accept it without giving them the right to say “NO” will be a problem. El Salvador should let Bitcoin be used in its own merit.

They didn't see the effect by its usage to there people and implementing it as mandatory option is totally a bad thing to those people who didn't know about new tech the same like that, old people for sure cannot take the risk and imagine on what will happen to them if they see their money melting due to market bad behavior so government needs to revise the implementation and don't force their citizen to use bitcoin make them decide its either they want or not since once bitcoin circulates successfully in the country for sure those who are not into bitcoins will get interest to try if they see their neighbors earning a lot of money for using bitcoins.

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