Why does Maged even post here with speculation at all, when all Theymos needs to do is check the post edit history? Hell, it's probably already been broadcast across RSS when he made the first post. I'm dumbfounded as to personal opinion, speculation and accusations need to enter something so seemingly cut and dry. Is it because Garr255 is a friend of Maged and he's trying to protect him? It certainly can't be that Maged thinks BFL and Inaba are dishonest, as he wouldn't have accepted payment from funds paid by BFL to false advertise here. Maybe it's all fake resistance to make it appear that the mods are objective of Inaba and not just on his payroll now.
Check the logs, Theymos, and we don't want to hear you say "oh well when matthew was misleading it was serious, but when Garr did it it was obviously a prank". /thread
Topic: Garr255/Werner - Auction shilling - page 22. (Read 23119 times)
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Hmm...
There is an option c here.
This might not be as black and white as people suspect.
But good thread for popped corn.
There is an option c here.
This might not be as black and white as people suspect.
But good thread for popped corn.
You might want to mention it considering Garr is currently bound by Josh not to defend himself, or risk losing his BFL shipment.
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The mods do not need to remote control someone's computer or look at ELA of screenshots, theymos needs to just simply look for the deleted post.
Seriously, please investigate, there should be consequences for shill bidding or faking screenshots.
Seriously, please investigate, there should be consequences for shill bidding or faking screenshots.
I thought Garr255 was a trusted member, after all he holds 250 BTC of the forum money... I hope the Werner account was never used by him (best to check past posts' IP/IP ranges and headers of both accounts (assuming he forgot to use a VPN at least once) if deleted posts do not provide enough information).
As for the victims coming forward - have they been notified of this thread / do they browse all sections often enough to stumble on one of the threads where posts with accusations against Garr255 are located?
Being a "trusted" or "untrustworthy" member simply means that Theymos, a 21 year old who has various flaws and gaping holes in his own ethics, deemed it as such.
(e.g. meritless)
The mods do not need to remote control someone's computer or look at ELA of screenshots, theymos needs to just simply look for the deleted post.
Seriously, please investigate, there should be consequences for shill bidding or faking screenshots.
Seriously, please investigate, there should be consequences for shill bidding or faking screenshots.
I thought Garr255 was a trusted member, after all he holds 250 BTC of the forum money... I hope the Werner account was never used by him (best to check past posts' IP/IP ranges and headers of both accounts (assuming he forgot to use a VPN at least once) if deleted posts do not provide enough information).
As for the victims coming forward - have they been notified of this thread / do they browse all sections often enough to stumble on one of the threads where posts with accusations against Garr255 are located?
I personally agree that this is something bad, and that it should be looked into. I've always been against the notion of having sockies here, like I told theymos last time... Anyway, only theymos can do the checks here (barring Thomas Stefan of course). I'll PM and direct him to this thread.
Bid shilling isn't a scam? He's basically scammed a number of users out of BTC by bidding up prices on stuff.
You could even argue that he's scammed his Cognitive users by posting positive remarks about how awesome it and he is, since people assume it's a legitimate disinterested third party, not the same guy selling what he's selling. That's almost by definition a scam.
You could even argue that he's scammed his Cognitive users by posting positive remarks about how awesome it and he is, since people assume it's a legitimate disinterested third party, not the same guy selling what he's selling. That's almost by definition a scam.
Please don't make me agree with this asshole!!!!!!! He certainly seems to be correct in this case.
Why would it be unethical to check Werner's post to see if it was edited? What am I missing here?
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Maged, I understand your skepticism considering Josh is an unscrupulous and unprofessional mouthpiece, but in this particular instance he is absolutely correct and I don't mind agreeing with him. When I made a trolling bet and didn't even bother trying to take anyone's money, it was considered as "an attempt to steal" even though such a thing can't even be proven, and I received a scammer tag followed by an "Untrustworthy" tag. Despite not trying to steal anything, I do agree that my actions were questionable and thus I don't defend them, I just hold my head in shame while paying people money that I don't even have.
If you defend Gar255 for his attempt to scam by rationalizing shill bidding as not being a scam, you're creating a double standard and removing any lesson I have ever learned from events that happened to me. Tread carefully.
If you defend Gar255 for his attempt to scam by rationalizing shill bidding as not being a scam, you're creating a double standard and removing any lesson I have ever learned from events that happened to me. Tread carefully.
The mods do not need to remote control someone's computer or look at ELA of screenshots, theymos needs to just simply look for the deleted post.
Seriously, please investigate, there should be consequences for shill bidding or faking screenshots.
Seriously, please investigate, there should be consequences for shill bidding or faking screenshots.
This +10000. Please guys, don't let this become scammer's paradise.
Wow, i lost all respects for Maged.
What a dumb mod. As for scamming, yeah yeah wait until the victim to come forward..... this is why this forum is an heaven for scammers. Lazy moderations.
What a dumb mod. As for scamming, yeah yeah wait until the victim to come forward..... this is why this forum is an heaven for scammers. Lazy moderations.
The mods do not need to remote control someone's computer or look at ELA of screenshots, theymos needs to just simply look for the deleted post.
Seriously, please investigate, there should be consequences for shill bidding or faking screenshots.
Seriously, please investigate, there should be consequences for shill bidding or faking screenshots.
As in the other thread, I'll even let Maged remote into my machine and examine the still open browser window.
This is the kind of shit you get yourself and your company into when you behave like a fucking ass. You are taking a huge shit on yourself and your company right now. Stop fucking around on these forums and go try to do your goddamn job, you idiot amateur.
When you're right, you're right.
Inaba is pretty clearly telling the truth here I believe.
How could Garr be so stupid. Like he really needs some low post count random account to add another negative post. Mind blowingly retarded move by him.
Inaba is pretty clearly telling the truth here I believe.
How could Garr be so stupid. Like he really needs some low post count random account to add another negative post. Mind blowingly retarded move by him.
BTW, I've looked into Werner's post history and the fact is he really looks like a sockpuppet. He completely changes his writing style depending on the situation: some times he definitely writes as a non-native english, then he speaks perfect english, etc. And coincidentally he always support Garr's ventures, and coincidentally he always bids in Garr's auctions, but never win.
I don't think this is *definitive* proof. But please, mods, look into this thing seriously, for honest people is frightening to see how scammers go unpunished.
I don't think this is *definitive* proof. But please, mods, look into this thing seriously, for honest people is frightening to see how scammers go unpunished.
This is a very serious thing.
Bidding sockpuppets that pump up the price in auctions = robbing peoples money. It's an outright scam that cannot go unpunished.
Josh is raising a very serious accusation, and he presented proof. There are two options:
a) Josh faked the proof creating a filthy libel that cannot be tolerated. The accusation is too serious.
b) Garr is a scammer
In either case, my humble opinion is that this has to be looked into it thoroughly by the mods. We cannot allow dishonest people abusing honest folks, either by scamming money in auctions through sockpuppets, or by raising false and seriously defamatory accusations, faking proofs to support their statements.
I don't know if the "scammer tag" still exists, but I really cannot see how this situation could end up without either Josh or Garr being banned, applied a scammer tag, or whatever other measures there are on these forums to effectively protect honest people and make scammer's life a little bit more difficult.
Otherwise this forum becomes a joke, scammer's paradise, and I really hope mods don't want that to happen.
Bidding sockpuppets that pump up the price in auctions = robbing peoples money. It's an outright scam that cannot go unpunished.
Josh is raising a very serious accusation, and he presented proof. There are two options:
a) Josh faked the proof creating a filthy libel that cannot be tolerated. The accusation is too serious.
b) Garr is a scammer
In either case, my humble opinion is that this has to be looked into it thoroughly by the mods. We cannot allow dishonest people abusing honest folks, either by scamming money in auctions through sockpuppets, or by raising false and seriously defamatory accusations, faking proofs to support their statements.
I don't know if the "scammer tag" still exists, but I really cannot see how this situation could end up without either Josh or Garr being banned, applied a scammer tag, or whatever other measures there are on these forums to effectively protect honest people and make scammer's life a little bit more difficult.
Otherwise this forum becomes a joke, scammer's paradise, and I really hope mods don't want that to happen.
And in fact THIS is the Werner post with that timestamp (17:57:32):
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.2517592
Sloppy work there Inaba!
Wait I think I heard my microwave bell... brb popcorn is ready!
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.2517592
Sloppy work there Inaba!
Wait I think I heard my microwave bell... brb popcorn is ready!
I ran the screenshot from Inaba through fotoforensics.com
http://fotoforensics.com/analysis.php?id=920e738915e00c0dda24bc1fc373b24e59f1f704.238213
I leave as an exercise for the reader to interpret the results.
Error level analysis is useless for screenshots. If you're going to fake a screenshot, you use Inspect Element, not resaving the same image with Photoshop.
Probably true. Change the HTML via the console, use the browser to render the altered HTML, then screenshot it.
And in fact THIS is the Werner post with that timestamp (17:57:32):
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.2517592
Sloppy work there Inaba!
Wait I think I heard my microwave bell... brb popcorn is ready!
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.2517592
Sloppy work there Inaba!
Wait I think I heard my microwave bell... brb popcorn is ready!
I ran the screenshot from Inaba through fotoforensics.com
http://fotoforensics.com/analysis.php?id=920e738915e00c0dda24bc1fc373b24e59f1f704.238213
I leave as an exercise for the reader to interpret the results.
Error level analysis is useless for screenshots. If you're going to fake a screenshot, you use Inspect Element, not resaving the same image with Photoshop.
And in fact THIS is the Werner post with that timestamp (17:57:32):
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.2517592
Sloppy work there Inaba!
Wait I think I heard my microwave bell... brb popcorn is ready!
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.2517592
Sloppy work there Inaba!
Wait I think I heard my microwave bell... brb popcorn is ready!
I ran the screenshot from Inaba through fotoforensics.com
http://fotoforensics.com/analysis.php?id=920e738915e00c0dda24bc1fc373b24e59f1f704.238213
I leave as an exercise for the reader to interpret the results.
Thinking this through, scams here (usually) need a victim to exist to be tagged. I don't really want to do anything about this until they come forward. Once they do come forward, if Garr255 would like to settle the issue with them, that would prevent the need for me to neg trust him.
This thread has at least one clear potential victim in it and I'm sure they would like to know about it.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/auction-2-bfl-64-ghs-single-preorders-214965
At one point (after Werner had already contributed a few times) the top bidders were the following:
Current top bids:
1@60 - nlovlyn
1@61 - starsoccer9
1@60 - nlovlyn
1@61 - starsoccer9
Then conveniently, Werner shows up:
2@62
Prompting some more bidding until finally two of the non-Werner bidders both upped their bids:
Less than four hours left!
Current leaders:
1@65 - Vezunchik
1@63 - starsoccer9
Current leaders:
1@65 - Vezunchik
1@63 - starsoccer9
If Werner is indeed Garr255, this is painting a very clear picture of how he scammed starsoccer9 out of 2 BTC for that particular auction.
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