last chance to buy Bitcoin under $5.
Is it too early to call this prediction wrong? If so, how long do I have to wait?
BTFD
Topic: Gold collapsing. Bitcoin UP. - page 1502. (Read 2032274 times)
Is it too early to call this prediction wrong? If so, how long do I have to wait?
BTFD
Another Score: 5/10/12 (kitco down, gold est from INO.)
year ago now delta mult
BTC 3.82 4.90 + 1.28
Gold 1510 1593 + 1.05
--------------------------
ref (for future updates):
http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/mtgoxUSD#czsg2011-05-08zeg2011-05-08ztgSzm1g10zm2g25zv (change date)
http://www.kitco.com/charts/livegold.html (hist cgi at bottom)
mult=now/year_ago
Another Score: 5/9/12
year ago now delta mult
BTC 3.75 5.03 + 1.34
Gold 1510 1590 + 1.05
Another Score: 5/8/12
year ago now delta mult
BTC 3.64 5.03 + 1.38
Gold 1497 1605 + 1.07
year ago now delta mult
BTC 3.82 4.90 + 1.28
Gold 1510 1593 + 1.05
--------------------------
ref (for future updates):
http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/mtgoxUSD#czsg2011-05-08zeg2011-05-08ztgSzm1g10zm2g25zv (change date)
http://www.kitco.com/charts/livegold.html (hist cgi at bottom)
mult=now/year_ago
Another Score: 5/9/12
year ago now delta mult
BTC 3.75 5.03 + 1.34
Gold 1510 1590 + 1.05
Another Score: 5/8/12
year ago now delta mult
BTC 3.64 5.03 + 1.38
Gold 1497 1605 + 1.07
You all seemed to have neglected how much of a store of value BTC is if say.. The grid goes down. Its worth about as much as any paper/electronic assets will be worth in a sustained grid outage, which is basically Zero... A roll of silver coins and a couple firearms. They have value even when the Electricity is off..
If the whole US power grid is offline:
1. At least your bitcoin is totally safe!
Its not worth zero, its just....tied up.2. If you're not already dead, you've got a lot more to worry about than money.
3. You will need those firearms.
last chance to buy Bitcoin under $5.
Is it too early to call this prediction wrong? If so, how long do I have to wait?
As I've said before, if some of these tools end up being used to enforce economic and other conditions on the citizens of the US, 98% of people will have one main question: "How on earth did we not see this coming since it was so obvious that the framework was being put in place?"
It'll never get all that bad, the people won't stand for it
.They can pass as many oppresive laws as they want, but if they enforce them on the populous too harshly it will all come crashing down.
In 100-150 years when the US is finally full it might come to what you intimate
, but not in our lifetimes..So long as the agricultural output exceeds the needs of the population, things probably won't get all that bad..
There is a reason why the US is the fattest nation on earth. Its not even close to being full..
Everybody (who thinks at all) has their own estimates on the probability of various events. And they can formulate their own plans for how to deal with the various different eventualities that may or may not pop up. The only thing I know for sure about my own is that they are not perfectly correct and a lot of them are probably not even partially correct.
I do suspect that you are underestimating what the population would be willing to put up with when a large faction of the population relies on the government for their means of existence, and when the more unpleasant of the penalties are applied to a smallish percentage of 'evil-does'. I suspect that individuals and groups who are not sufficiently servile would be able to be painted as a threat to the majority.
As I've said before, if some of these tools end up being used to enforce economic and other conditions on the citizens of the US, 98% of people will have one main question: "How on earth did we not see this coming since it was so obvious that the framework was being put in place?"
It'll never get all that bad, the people won't stand for it
.They can pass as many oppresive laws as they want, but if they enforce them on the populous too harshly it will all come crashing down.
In 100-150 years when the US is finally full it might come to what you intimate
, but not in our lifetimes..So long as the agricultural output exceeds the needs of the population, things probably won't get all that bad..
There is a reason why the US is the fattest nation on earth. Its not even close to being full..
...
If one encrypts their wallets, they can be put in a public place. If one embeds the encrypted wallets in a commonly downloaded asset (known as stenography) then the download would be difficult to trace to a single subject of interest.
The data which would need to be accessible in order to decrypt the wallet.dat(s) would be relatively short depending on how strong a passphrase one wished to use. Short enough to be transmitted by a number of fairly primitive technologies, or memorized by someone with a good memory.
If one encrypts their wallets, they can be put in a public place. If one embeds the encrypted wallets in a commonly downloaded asset (known as stenography) then the download would be difficult to trace to a single subject of interest.
The data which would need to be accessible in order to decrypt the wallet.dat(s) would be relatively short depending on how strong a passphrase one wished to use. Short enough to be transmitted by a number of fairly primitive technologies, or memorized by someone with a good memory.
You all seemed to have neglected how much of a store of value BTC is if say.. The grid goes down. Its worth about as much as any paper/electronic assets will be worth in a sustained grid outage, which is basically Zero... A roll of silver coins and a couple firearms. They have value even when the Electricity is off..
It may have seemed this way to you because you did not read or comprehend some of the earlier content. Like I said, a relatively small fraction of my nest-egg is 'stored' in this manner. This is both because the chances of my needing to use it in this manner are remote, and also because as I've made fairly clear, I see a number of potential failure modes of Bitcoin.
It might be worth remembering that at least in the US, any law enforcement official can probe the rectum of any citizen, and in practice just about whenever they feel so inclined. Also, there are body scanners popping up like mushrooms, and not just at the borders any more.
Although I try to temper my paranoia, I think that there are usually there are reasons for such events. The stripe search thing in particular was politically costly to codify, and although there was some clear suggestions of pork in the full body scanner growth, there would probably be easier ways to dole out taxpayer money to friends.
As I've said before, if some of these tools end up being used to enforce economic and other conditions on the citizens of the US, 98% of people will have one main question: "How on earth did we not see this coming since it was so obvious that the framework was being put in place?"
Notice the lights being off in the Northeast. This was an accident.. Not caused by a solar storm or terrorists or anything else. Just the grid getting f'd up thru no act of nature or malicious act of man..
You all seemed to have neglected how much of a store of value BTC is if say.. The grid goes down. Its worth about as much as any paper/electronic assets will be worth in a sustained grid outage, which is basically Zero... A roll of silver coins and a couple firearms. They have value even when the Electricity is off..
Silver/Gold bugs always bring this up. Being a Bitcoinbug myself, I dont think we will ever see an event in which the entire global "grid" goes down for any significant amount of time.
Is there a general consensus among goldbugs on how likely an event like that is to happen?
How likely do you think an event like that is to happen?
In my remaining life? I only really care about the US grid. I give it about a 20% chance to have a larger scale grid outage that lasts more then 2 months.
If you look around in the US, you will notice that almost every city and county municipal complex is putting in solar panel farms in/on or near themselves.. I haven't looked closely at the switching gear around them, but they are likely to have solar storm disconnect protections in place.. Makes you wonder
A Carrington event in modern times would take the world wide grid down and keep it down for years. No one really knows the frequency of events of this strength, but one occured in the 1850s.. If its the type of event that happens every 1-200 years.. The grids of the world in their current form will go down and stay down for years.
You all seemed to have neglected how much of a store of value BTC is if say.. The grid goes down. Its worth about as much as any paper/electronic assets will be worth in a sustained grid outage, which is basically Zero... A roll of silver coins and a couple firearms. They have value even when the Electricity is off..
Silver/Gold bugs always bring this up. Being a Bitcoinbug myself, I dont think we will ever see an event in which the entire global "grid" goes down for any significant amount of time.
Is there a general consensus among goldbugs on how likely an event like that is to happen?
How likely do you think an event like that is to happen?
Chief among these is that I could wash up on a random foreign shore with nothing but the shirt on my back and have a pretty good potential to be able to access whatever value I have 'stored' in Bitcoin.
Where do you keep your wallet.dat's? I guess I should put an encrypted copy online someplace, lol.. Just in case I have to wash up on a foreign shore with nothing but the shirt on my back (can I have a USB stick in my shirt pocket??)
I'm not sayin anything, but...
If one encrypts their wallets, they can be put in a public place. If one embeds the encrypted wallets in a commonly downloaded asset (known as stenography) then the download would be difficult to trace to a single subject of interest.
The data which would need to be accessible in order to decrypt the wallet.dat(s) would be relatively short depending on how strong a passphrase one wished to use. Short enough to be transmitted by a number of fairly primitive technologies, or memorized by someone with a good memory.
You all seemed to have neglected how much of a store of value BTC is if say.. The grid goes down. Its worth about as much as any paper/electronic assets will be worth in a sustained grid outage, which is basically Zero... A roll of silver coins and a couple firearms. They have value even when the Electricity is off..
Chief among these is that I could wash up on a random foreign shore with nothing but the shirt on my back and have a pretty good potential to be able to access whatever value I have 'stored' in Bitcoin.
Where do you keep your wallet.dat's? I guess I should put an encrypted copy online someplace, lol.. Just in case I have to wash up on a foreign shore with nothing but the shirt on my back (can I have a USB stick in my shirt pocket??)
I'm not sayin anything, but...
If one encrypts their wallets, they can be put in a public place. If one embeds the encrypted wallets in a commonly downloaded asset (known as stenography) then the download would be difficult to trace to a single subject of interest.
The data which would need to be accessible in order to decrypt the wallet.dat(s) would be relatively short depending on how strong a passphrase one wished to use. Short enough to be transmitted by a number of fairly primitive technologies, or memorized by someone with a good memory.
@miscreanity: I guess my idea of piano certificate money wont kick off then? I was going to call them keys and 88 keys would equal a piano with 88 keys redeemable for one piano.
Chief among these is that I could wash up on a random foreign shore with nothing but the shirt on my back and have a pretty good potential to be able to access whatever value I have 'stored' in Bitcoin.
Where do you keep your wallet.dat's? I guess I should put an encrypted copy online someplace, lol.. Just in case I have to wash up on a foreign shore with nothing but the shirt on my back (can I have a USB stick in my shirt pocket??)
Speculative and subjective, but illustrative of the dynamic potential in play. Obviously, the main topic of the chart concerns the blue Bitcoin, green US dollar, and gold lines. The context is taken as a global basis.
When storage of value comes to mind, I think years / dekades, maybe longer.
Bitcoin isn't around long enough to prove that it is.
Everybody who advocates Bitcoin to store value is an investor, not a saver.
And the poor fool who will be holding the short stick after everyone realizes that it isn't.
Bitcoin isn't around long enough to prove that it is.
Everybody who advocates Bitcoin to store value is an investor, not a saver.
And the poor fool who will be holding the short stick after everyone realizes that it isn't.
Although I do not 'advocate' Bitcoin...at least not for very many people...I do personally use it as a 'store of value'. I prefer gold in this role and use gold as my primary vehicle for storing value, but Bitcoin has some features that are simply not practical with gold, at least not at my scale. Chief among these is that I could wash up on a random foreign shore with nothing but the shirt on my back and have a pretty good potential to be able to access whatever value I have 'stored' in Bitcoin.
Bitcoin is vastly more complex than gold and thus has more failure modes. It's also, in it's (brief) history, more volatile. This is why I treat BTC as a 'store of value' for corner case long-shot needs and as a relatively small fraction of my savings.
The very same BTC I use as a 'store of value' is simultaneously used as a highly speculative gamble. I see no reason why almost any asset or item needs to be pigeon-holed into one category, or why the function needs to be set in stone as conditions evolve. Gold is relatively static in it's role which is one of the reasons it is particularly appealing.
Methinks someone may be pushing his signature product. That's not necessarily a bad thing, considering I'm in favor of PMs as much as Bitcoin; just an observation.
at this point, the onus is not on me to explain how or why Cycle Theory has worked for me; it's up to the skeptics to explain how i could be so lucky.
Methinks someone may be pushing his signature product. That's not necessarily a bad thing, considering I'm in favor of PMs as much as Bitcoin; just an observation.
When storage of value comes to mind, I think years / dekades, maybe longer.
Bitcoin isn't around long enough to prove that it is.
Everybody who advocates Bitcoin to store value is an investor, not a saver.
And the poor fool who will be holding the short stick after everyone realizes that it isn't.
Bitcoin isn't around long enough to prove that it is.
Everybody who advocates Bitcoin to store value is an investor, not a saver.
And the poor fool who will be holding the short stick after everyone realizes that it isn't.
Gold was used as a money. It only stopped being used because it is inferior to paper and electronic money since it is a pain to handle.
Gold cannot offer me certainty over its (future) supply. Gold cannot offer me the ability to transport and store vast quantities cheaply and without worries. Gold cannot offer me the ability to not have it confiscated by a government. Gold cannot offer me the ability to easily liquidate it at anytime.
In short, Gold loses out in pretty much every respect in comparison to Bitcoin. The only two downsides are its short history so far and its dependance on the Internet.
BTW, you are telling me Bitcoin is so volatile while promoting Silver and Gold as a store of value. You should take a look at both their long-term graphs, particularly silver.
You can wait a few thousand years if you like, I for one consider Bitcoin a superior long-term store of value right now.
Since, there is nothing to "represent" Bitcoin other than fiat (and we're trying to avoid fiat right?), the only storage Bitcoin is is for ...Bitcoin.
I still don’t get what you mean with the storage thing. In how far is Gold different?Gold cannot offer me certainty over its (future) supply. Gold cannot offer me the ability to transport and store vast quantities cheaply and without worries. Gold cannot offer me the ability to not have it confiscated by a government. Gold cannot offer me the ability to easily liquidate it at anytime.
In short, Gold loses out in pretty much every respect in comparison to Bitcoin. The only two downsides are its short history so far and its dependance on the Internet.
BTW, you are telling me Bitcoin is so volatile while promoting Silver and Gold as a store of value. You should take a look at both their long-term graphs, particularly silver.
You can wait a few thousand years if you like, I for one consider Bitcoin a superior long-term store of value right now.
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